EP 6 Operation Dudula, Kenya’s Paternity Cases, Morocco's New Colonialism and .. | African News Review 🌍

In this episode of African News Review, Adesoji Iginla, alongside Milton Allimadi and Aya Fubara Eneli Esq., discusses various pressing issues affecting Africa and the African diaspora. 

This conversation delves into various pressing issues affecting African communities, including immigration policies, political dynamics in Venezuela, the impact of ICE on local communities, and the implications of the Nobel Prize. 

It also discusses the rise of anti-immigrant sentiment in South Africa, the historical context of African unity, and the role of media representation. 

The discussion further explores the colonial legacy and its modern implications, the impact of technology, and the accountability for war crimes through the ICC. 

Ultimately, the conversation emphasises the need for African unity and a collective response to ongoing challenges.

Takeaways

*The impact of immigration policies on local communities is profound.
*Political dynamics in Venezuela reflect broader geopolitical struggles.
*The role of ICE in community disruption raises ethical questions.
*The Nobel Prize can sometimes serve imperialist narratives.
*Anti-immigrant sentiment in South Africa highlights internal divisions.
*Historical context is crucial for understanding current African unity efforts.
*Media representation often skews the narrative on African issues.
*Colonial legacies continue to affect modern African societies.
*Technology plays a dual role in both oppression and liberation.
*Accountability for war crimes remains a contentious issue.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Community Updates
02:34 ICE Raids and Community Impact
04:59 Political Responses and Protests
07:54 The Role of Media in Immigration Narratives
10:46 Nobel Prize Controversies and Political Implications
13:28 Operation Dudula and Anti-Immigrant Sentiment
16:09 Historical Context and African Unity
18:57 The Need for Solidarity Among Africans
23:41 Colonial Powers and Their Desperation
25:31 Historical Context of Colonialism and Resistance
27:15 Paternity Case and Its Implications
32:23 The Legacy of Colonialism and Internal Struggles
36:21 Military Presence and Sovereignty Issues
41:45 Internal Colonialism in Western Sahara
49:03 Exploitation of African Resources
51:14 War Crimes and Accountability in Sudan
56:11 Historical Context of Sudan's Conflicts
01:01:15 The Legacy of Colonialism in Africa
01:04:43 The Role of Technology and Power
01:09:06 Justice and the International Criminal Court
01:12:20 Empowering African Traditions and Resistance

Transcript

Adesoji Iginla (00:03.796)
Yes, greetings, greetings, and welcome to another episode of African News Review. Yes, in a little look, yeah, yes, yes, yes. I am your host, Adesogigila, still Adesogigila. And with me as usual is my sister from another mother, Ayayi Fubera in LA Squire. How are you doing, sister?

Milton Allimadi (00:13.21)
Thank

Aya Fubara Eneli (00:28.957)
I am doing great, thank you.

Adesoji Iginla (00:31.79)
Yes, and he needs no further introduction. Good comrade, broadcaster, journalist, mean, the man of the moment, Comrade Milton Alimadi.

Milton Allimadi (00:45.831)
Thank you, Cormoran.

Adesoji Iginla (00:47.444)
OK, and as it's become customary with us, let's check in. Let's check in. News where you are, beginning with the system.

Aya Fubara Eneli (00:58.547)
It's pretty much more of the same in terms of what we're dealing with in our community.

A janitor at the high school that my youngest son attends was apprehended by ICE. Well, this coming home in a very close way, she'd been back and forth, you know, in and out of the country over a number of years, but she had, I think, served in this role as a janitor for at least over a decade.

Milton Allimadi (01:15.703)
Mmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:31.475)
She had had other shorter stints, but this time around over a decade. I know people who know her, who speak highly of her. Yes, according to the law, was she here illegally? Yes, based on the law. Had she committed, was she a threat to society? Was she committing any other crime in that sense?

Adesoji Iginla (01:31.566)
god.

Adesoji Iginla (01:36.034)
Hmm

Adesoji Iginla (01:45.464)
Hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:53.873)
You know, did she falsify documents in order to get the job? Is she paying taxes on that job but not getting any benefits from it? Yes. So these things are nuanced, but anyway, ICE has come to my community.

Adesoji Iginla (02:04.824)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (02:13.016)
comrade.

Milton Allimadi (02:14.561)
Yeah, okay. So on that same note, the mayor of Chicago, of course, Brandon is fighting back, not only the mayor, but obviously because, exactly, because President Trump had said he was going to arrest both of them, the governor and the mayor. So now, and I'm not saying the mayor is the one who's giving these instructions, but ICE vehicles are being towed.

Aya Fubara Eneli (02:26.343)
The governor too.

Aya Fubara Eneli (02:44.579)
Yes!

Milton Allimadi (02:44.697)
Yeah, people are coming out to actually protest people are coming to you know, there's a video that was going around where two ice person over trying to they wrestle this guy down and he kept resisting getting up and down and a Crowd started assembling and at some point they abandoned that Okay, so, you know sisters, right?

Adesoji Iginla (03:08.781)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (03:13.172)
if you go strictly by the law, our transgressions were committed. But the fact is we have millions of undocumented people in this country. And it's impossible to arrest. So what is the purpose of this actually? Are you going to arrest millions of people and deport them? That's not possible. So why don't you come up with a realistic solution?

which of course is an amnesty. And in return for amnesty and regularization and normalization of your status, you have this window, you give a time frame, let it be done in a very civilized manner. You cannot subject people to this type of terrorism. Where a person leaves their home in the morning, leaves their family behind, they don't know if they're gonna see their family again. And their family does not know if they're going to see

this member of the family who's leaving the home in order to earn a living, right? Not going to commit a crime, right? Going to a job, even though, strictly speaking, they may not be legally entitled to that job. But it didn't happen just yesterday. It happened over a long period of time. So it has to be addressed historically, right? So let's see what happened in Chicago. Chicago, think it's sending...

Adesoji Iginla (04:21.688)
to work.

Milton Allimadi (04:41.481)
a message that you can't just allow the state to put its heel on top of people like that. And then of course, the second story is Trump did not get the Nobel prize. But unfortunately, the person that got the Nobel is a right-wing fascist, Mercado, the Venezuelan.

Aya Fubara Eneli (04:59.859)
no.

Adesoji Iginla (05:10.215)
Mm. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (05:11.744)
who's promoting violent regime change. And her ally is Marco Rubio. But there are some interesting aspects of this. In fact, it could cost Rubio his job. I would not be surprised because Rubio signed on to a campaign last year in August, campaigning for Mercado to be given the Nobel. Of course, at that time, he was a senator. He had no

Adesoji Iginla (05:27.214)
Good.

Milton Allimadi (05:40.999)
idea that he was going to end up being Secretary of State. So Rubio and several other members of Congress, know, senators and representatives, signed on to that, that member of that campaign, right? And now she has the Nobel. And Trump still wants it, of course, because he said, she called me and she said, you know, you deserve it. And you know, she was

Adesoji Iginla (05:55.0)
Mm, mm.

Milton Allimadi (06:07.816)
kind. If I'd asked for it, I'm sure she would have given it to me. But here's the other interesting development. Rubio is determined to overthrow the government of Maduro in Venezuela. So, you know, he's the one pushing those missile strikes on these boats, right? And he's also trying to build a regional coalition of maybe the willing, you know. But

Adesoji Iginla (06:27.598)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (06:34.254)
around.

Milton Allimadi (06:35.892)
what's her name? Laura Luma, this right wing, you know, ideologue. She has much more influence over Trump than Rubio. She's the one who was instrumental in getting Waltz, the national security advisor, fired from that job. And now he's the ambassador to the UN, which of course is a step down. She tweeted that Trump is a man of peace. Trump is not

Adesoji Iginla (06:40.52)
Not Joe.

Milton Allimadi (07:05.007)
interested in going to war in Venezuela. And this Mercado, the one who just won the Nobel, she referred to her, Luma referred to her as a right-wing ideologue who wants violent regime change in Venezuela. So this is not good for Ruby, I'm telling you. So let me leave it there.

Adesoji Iginla (07:22.731)
and

Aya Fubara Eneli (07:23.697)
Well, the same Loomer who just tweeted that she is in opposition to Trump and she might not vote in 2026. These guys are playing some games here. But to the first story that you raised, I think it's important for us to note that if the idea is to get rid of the quote unquote criminals who are creating issues in the country, of course, I should have started at the White House because there's a 34 time felon that is residing there.

Milton Allimadi (07:52.849)
Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (07:53.619)
That that that is where they should have started but since they haven't started there The question is all the videos that we're seeing how many of them show ice? arresting any gang bangers any drug dealers any major no we actually We actually see a mother pulled out of her car while she's waiting in the school line to pick up her children

Milton Allimadi (08:09.778)
So don't make

Adesoji Iginla (08:15.522)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (08:15.919)
Right. Right.

Aya Fubara Eneli (08:17.243)
We see people working regular jobs who are being accosted. We see them rappelling down from helicopters in the middle of the night and handcuffing, separating parents and children and handcuffing them naked even and destroying property. Where have we seen them actually make the country safer in any way? Because if it was really about getting rid of the criminals, I think that they should start right

Milton Allimadi (08:20.271)
Mm-hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (08:46.021)
in their midst, in their group of donors, because every other day we're getting reports of another one arrested for pedophilia or for child pornography and so on and so forth. They should start there.

Adesoji Iginla (08:48.878)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (08:58.072)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (08:58.287)
Right. Okay. And on that point, in Chicago, of course, I'm sure you read about the ice agents rappelling, coming down from helicopters and arresting US citizens, know, African-American US citizens being arrested to the extent that there was a quote in one of the op-ed pieces that, you know, one guy was shouting at us, say, wait a minute, I thought you were supposed to be strangling.

Aya Fubara Eneli (09:11.186)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (09:27.116)
Mexicans, not us, which of course is very unfortunate. As the columnist says, it goes to that issue of the divide and rule, which is the part of this entire agenda. And then of course, you have people who are coming to try to regularize their status at immigration offices in courts, and they step out and the ICE agents are there throwing them to the ground.

Adesoji Iginla (09:30.967)
Not yet.

Adesoji Iginla (09:35.49)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (09:46.402)
Again, picture.

Aya Fubara Eneli (09:51.171)
Exactly. People who have followed the rules. You have dreamers who are being kicked out, who came here and were born as babies or came here as children and had no, you know, they didn't control the fact that they were brought here, but this is the country they've known for their whole lives.

Adesoji Iginla (09:51.414)
Mm. Mm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (10:09.413)
So yeah, but this whole idea of it's happening to them and not us, people need to understand. In law, we have this thing we call the slippery slope. Once you've normalized doing it to this group of people, then it becomes easier to do it to the next group of people and the next group of people. And so we all need to be vigilant and we all need to be fighting back.

Milton Allimadi (10:18.943)
Yup, yup, yup, yup.

Adesoji Iginla (10:18.957)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (10:24.002)
becomes.

Adesoji Iginla (10:33.39)
Yes, speaking of, I mean, I just want to underscore one point with regards to Maria Corriana Mercado, the Nobel Prize winner. In 2002, was a documentary, there was a TV crew in Caracas, the capital of Venezuela, sat with the then president Hugo Javez, democratically elected, we must say.

Milton Allimadi (10:42.889)
Mmm

Adesoji Iginla (11:03.47)
And they were interviewing how he has redistributed the wealth with regards to Venezuelans and where they have and what the plan is going forward. And then on the TV, it was announced that the coup had been announced. the coup, yeah, we'll never tell you guys. Yes, that's it. And part of the people that signed the so-called Camono Decree was

Milton Allimadi (11:18.719)
Yeah, that's a famous documentary. It's that the revolution will not be televised.

Adesoji Iginla (11:32.832)
Miss Makado. She was one of the 400 people who's assigned, but she's now claiming that

Milton Allimadi (11:37.389)
Chavez gave them all an amnesty and she forgets that.

Adesoji Iginla (11:40.35)
Amnesty, yes. I mean, that's who Nobel wants us to think is fighting for democracy. Again, the imperialists will do what imperialists do, know, fund their attempt at undermining the people's will. So I just thought I mentioned that. Okay, so speaking of

Aya Fubara Eneli (12:03.507)
And I think we previously mentioned who Nobel is himself, Alfred Nobel. And the fact that the Nobel Prize, it was created because he needed to, in their words, whitewash his legacy because he was an agent of war and chaos.

Milton Allimadi (12:09.005)
Absolutely, the bomb maker.

Adesoji Iginla (12:17.645)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (12:17.772)
Right.

Adesoji Iginla (12:20.5)
Mm-hmm. So maybe you should actually have.

Aya Fubara Eneli (12:24.787)
But having said that, I'm still...

I'm still elated that the campaign of Trump did not work. I'm petty like that. I'm still glad you didn't get it.

Milton Allimadi (12:37.671)
your thoughts. Hold your thoughts. Hold your thoughts. There's always next year, so hold your thoughts.

Adesoji Iginla (12:43.882)
You

Aya Fubara Eneli (12:45.063)
You mean after they build the high rises in Gaza, we're going to now nominate you?

Milton Allimadi (12:45.547)
Because in fact

Milton Allimadi (12:51.369)
No, no, no. mean, think that's okay. I'm glad you brought that up, actually. I think Netanyahu cannot call this a victory because what Netanyahu promised would happen has not materialized. He said he would annex the West Bank. He would completely annihilate Hamas and he would deport the people of Gaza out of that.

Aya Fubara Eneli (12:55.603)
You

Adesoji Iginla (13:04.76)
was

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (13:20.541)
location and they even started talking about how they're going to build this into a tourist resort, right? That is not going to happen. So it cannot go around touting this is a victory. In fact, I think if the other part materializes where you have Egyptian troops on the ground and Turkish troops on the ground, then at that point I can say, okay, perhaps we are on a point of no return. That's the part I'm waiting about. Ceasefire is good.

Adesoji Iginla (13:26.563)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (13:38.274)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (13:50.334)
But having Egyptian and Turkish troops, particularly Turkey, Turkey is very much opposed to Netanyahu. So if soldiers actually get on the ground, then I'm confident within the next two years we might see a Palestinian state.

Adesoji Iginla (14:10.094)
Okay, yeah, so speaking of, we've been spoken about the proponents of American First. Gives me no joy, but you go to our first story, which is from Dr. Vela, the German broadcaster, and essentially they are of the opinion that Operation Doodoola, which is...

which says South Africa Operation Doodula hunts down illegal immigrants. The lead reads the South African anti-immigration movement Operation Doodula has opened a new front with a crackdown on foreigners. Experts believe that socioeconomic disparities and ensuing problems fuel the group popularity.

your initial thought of what this means for Africans within the space.

Milton Allimadi (15:16.592)
Do you want to go or should I?

Adesoji Iginla (15:17.876)
Yeah, who wants to go first? I mean, I'm

Aya Fubara Eneli (15:18.407)
You can go.

Milton Allimadi (15:20.967)
All right, so this is very un-African for many reasons. Number one, without the involvement of other African countries, apartheid would have lasted much, much longer. Okay, so people say the defeat of South Africa's army in Angola was very decisive because the Europeans realized for the first time that, wait a minute, we can actually be defeated by a non-European army, by Cuba's intervention.

Adesoji Iginla (15:24.619)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (15:49.169)
But why did Cuba intervene? It was because of an African country, Angola. How can you forget that? Obviously, they're hitting at the weakest target, you see, which are the immigrants. They're afraid of the true target, which is the post-apartheid structure, which still exists in South Africa. It is not because of the immigrants that unemployment

Adesoji Iginla (15:54.584)
Yep. Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (16:01.569)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (16:18.278)
is almost 40 % for the African population. What do they have to do with that? They're just coming there to get the crumbs, right? But you can understand how something like this can work. It's scapegoating, just like in the United States. They're scapegoating immigrants, and it elevated a candidate to be elected president of the United States. So that's what they're trying to do in South Africa as well.

but it means they're just going to prolong something they really need to be addressing. Why is it that more than three decades after apartheid, the 8 % European population still owns 72 % of the land, still control like 90 % of the economy? And the most shameful thing, I was reading somewhere that it took a lot of agitation by civic organizations in order for President Omar Fossa to condemn this movement.

Adesoji Iginla (16:46.371)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (17:03.246)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (17:15.556)
Let's think about it. So even he finds it convenient to have these, I don't call them migrants. These are Africans on African soil, you see? Because now you're legitimizing everything that you allegedly fought against. Those boundaries, were they drawn by Africans? What's the major difference between a Cosa and a Zulu and Yoruba or Igbo? Tell me about that.

Adesoji Iginla (17:43.423)
Mm. Mm.

Milton Allimadi (17:44.043)
So what that they travel further to come from Nigeria to South Africa, they're still on African soil. And that's a foreigner. And the 8 % that controls the economy, those are not foreigners. There's no logical argument there.

Adesoji Iginla (17:50.624)
for you.

Adesoji Iginla (18:01.27)
Hmm sister.

Aya Fubara Eneli (18:04.285)
So, you I remember during my college days, which were decades ago, unlike comrade, you know, I have not gone back to get the 10th degree because you're going to have one five PhDs now.

Milton Allimadi (18:15.708)
Hahaha!

Adesoji Iginla (18:16.673)
you

Milton Allimadi (18:19.988)
You what

Aya Fubara Eneli (18:24.199)
having this sentiment of when this generation dies out, the younger generations, we see things differently. No more racism, no more. You know, the world would be a better place. And what we were not paying attention to is the way that the educational system and the media and all the other structures that back it up, how...

Adesoji Iginla (18:37.068)
place here.

Adesoji Iginla (18:42.082)
We're shipping our mics.

Aya Fubara Eneli (18:45.767)
they have continued to seed these narratives that keep showing up generation after generation. And so first of all, when I read that article, it just made me really sad because like Conrad pointed out, who drew these lines? Are we not one and the same ultimately? And how is it, what it also made me think of is how

Protesters are going to Kamala Harris's, Kamala, her book signings, her book tour. They're going and protesting there about Palestine. But I don't see them protesting the person who is in the presidency. So when comrades said they go for who they consider weakest or who's most vulnerable, your issue is not with the white people that own your whole country.

Adesoji Iginla (19:20.814)
Book launch. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (19:36.833)
for

Aya Fubara Eneli (19:42.907)
Your issue is with the African brothers and sisters who make up what? Less than 1 % and in terms of whatever they might be getting from the system that they are serving and pouring into is under 6.5%. And so you leave the person or the people you should actually be fighting.

to fight against one another because these people are easier to oppress. And as you pointed out, the president also looking at this as, hey, yeah, let's keep this chaos going so that people don't ask or demand of the government the changes that should be occurring so that everybody can live and thrive in that society. We'll keep them fighting each other.

while the rich keep raking in money and the white folk keep all their resources, which is exactly what we see in the United States. You're upset that you think an immigrant is getting emergency health care, if that's some sense, that's the story. But you don't have a problem with this country through COVID and beyond shoveling billions into the pockets of a handful of people.

Milton Allimadi (20:40.319)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (20:59.242)
Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (20:59.505)
And you think your enemy is this person here barely struggling to live versus the people, the oligarchs over here. So it's sad to see. I hope that we can continue to educate one another so that we understand that we really as Africans only win as one people. Divided, we will continue to be decimated. And these young people, hopefully there's some elders who can tell them.

Adesoji Iginla (21:03.872)
you

Milton Allimadi (21:04.243)
Right.

Milton Allimadi (21:18.431)
Absolutely.

Aya Fubara Eneli (21:26.639)
Namibia provided support to South Africans. So many other countries around it, like you pointed out, without the rest of Africa, without Africans in the diaspora, Nelson Mandela would probably have died in jail and apartheid might be going on. So for you to turn around now and not remember even that recent history, that really sad.

Milton Allimadi (21:30.484)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (21:42.751)
the movement.

Milton Allimadi (21:50.271)
this project. And it's so un-African that they blocked, I think she was from Malawi, and her baby from entering a hospital, and that baby ended up dying. So I like the fact that the EFF, the Ekonomi Frenafat, filed a criminal lawsuit against this organization and understand the case is actually ongoing.

Aya Fubara Eneli (21:55.667)
Yes.

Aya Fubara Eneli (22:11.603)
as they should.

Adesoji Iginla (22:13.422)
So quick question before we move on. As you both are now in the media sphere, what would you say is the media's framing, the media framing of this? If you notice in that article, the historical setup was not talked about actually.

Milton Allimadi (22:31.44)
Okay, good question. Good question.

Milton Allimadi (22:40.061)
No, you're right. I agree. Okay, so I'm okay. So since this program is designed to critique that, you hit it spot on. All of that was left out. You didn't hear anything about the fact that the unemployment disparity. European South African unemployment is at 8%. Think about that. 8%. Right? So unemployment of Africans is five times larger than that.

Adesoji Iginla (22:45.143)
Yes, thank you.

Aya Fubara Eneli (22:45.777)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (22:50.22)
Hahaha

Mm. Mm.

Milton Allimadi (23:09.883)
And that, of course, is not brought up. The control of the economy, the control of the stock exchange, the control of the mining companies, none of that is brought up. There's no context. So you just get the impression that, there might be legitimacy to this issue. Africa, exactly. Black on black crime. Even Africans are tired of other Africans. So thank you for posing that question.

Aya Fubara Eneli (23:27.719)
Yes.

Aya Fubara Eneli (23:35.506)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (23:35.928)
Yeah. So I just want to add this. Obviously, this is why we have this program. There was a thing called the frontline states. The frontline states were essentially the states that were surrounding South Africa because South Africa did something. It said in order to ensure the perpetuation of the apartheid regime, it had to make sure all the other countries that were black were unstable.

to create a bulwark that look at us, we control this, and look at them. They cannot control whatever it is they're in charge of. Nigeria joined that group. And there was a key speech that was given on the floor of the OAU in Kampala, given by General Muritha LaMuhammed, where he pledged Nigeria's entire riches to defeating apartheid.

Milton Allimadi (24:03.781)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (24:31.118)
A couple of months later, I mean, he delivered the speech January 12th, and 1976, February 13th, he was gone down. Some people will point out to the fact that it was the British had a hand in it, the British deny, obviously. But I just say that to say this, there are lots of people who have Samoramichel. I mean, lots of leaders have given

Milton Allimadi (24:57.861)
Haunda, Mirere, all those guys. But the fact that you brought up that, I pose a question. The African determination, dedication to defeating apartheid, why can we have that type of energy and determination to create African unity, number one? Number two, to industrialize Africa. Why? You know?

Adesoji Iginla (25:00.568)
They're all gay. Yeah. Go on.

Adesoji Iginla (25:07.918)
Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (25:23.327)
I think again, of our educational indoctrination and also just the machinations of these Western powers. I'm not going to say we, obviously once we make a decision that we're going to overcome them, we will. But even when you watch that documentary on soundtrack of a coup d'etat and you understand how

Adesoji Iginla (25:23.51)
and

Adesoji Iginla (25:29.26)
Mm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (25:53.329)
And of course, they're not even exposing all that they did. But you understand how insidious these people are. So you're fighting the UN, you're fighting CIA, you're fighting M16. I mean, it's like all these different groups. And in the meantime, they are seeding confusion. So it's not just...

Adesoji Iginla (26:12.887)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (26:13.386)
Good.

Aya Fubara Eneli (26:16.537)
Our willpower, it's also, like you're trying to build in at the same time you're having to expend all of this energy to fight off all of these people coming from, then of course your own people. So we have our work cut out for us and we can definitely do it, but we cannot underestimate how desperate these colonial powers are.

Adesoji Iginla (26:40.942)
Hmm.

Mmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (26:44.369)
and the lengths that they will go to, which we've seen through the assassinations of our people, the lengths that they will go to to maintain power over us.

Adesoji Iginla (26:55.604)
I mean, I just want to underscore a point with regards to the quote unquote the synergy between the American settler colonial project and South Africa. Gerald Pond wrote a book a couple of years ago titled White Supremacy Confronted. It's yeah, it's quite the piece, but listen, it ties everything together from the independence movements,

to how Africa's role was undermined in the UN, which is what you were speaking to with regards to soundtrack of a coup d'etat. Also how the American economic system underpinned the South African movement. But the moment people started getting out in the street, the boycotts, the sanctions, eventually you had to cave in. And so

it will be remiss of off if we don't revisit that history and understand what is still at play because after all the only reason why apartheid fell was because of economics and it became no longer tenable to you know support a dying system so any final thoughts before we move on

Aya Fubara Eneli (28:05.139)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (28:14.77)
Yeah, on Gerald Horn, I want to give kudos to this great legendary historian professor. He had me once on his radio show. He interviewed me when my book first came out. But then there was something also funny, like a couple of months ago, I was interviewed on a podcast called I Never Knew TV. And it got good traffic, like maybe about 60k.

Adesoji Iginla (28:22.136)
Hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (28:39.379)
you

Milton Allimadi (28:43.218)
and many good comments on it. somebody posted, oh, this brother is deep. And I responded, thank you. And then the next week I went and I heard Professor Gerojón speak. And I told him, I said, after I finished, I said, you know what? I told him about what happened. And I said, I'm gonna go back to the podcast and I'm going to post and say, I'm not there yet.

Adesoji Iginla (28:56.503)
You

Aya Fubara Eneli (29:08.019)
you

Adesoji Iginla (29:09.998)
Yes, yes, yes.

Milton Allimadi (29:11.218)
The brother is really deep and he combines global history in such a remarkable way. In one lecture, I learned about two semesters worth of classes. So thanks for bringing his name up. I strongly recommend all of his books.

Adesoji Iginla (29:17.09)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (29:29.846)
Yeah, yeah. I mean, with regards to this particular subject, white supremacy confronted is just captures everything. And because it's written through an African lens, you sort of get the need that, yes, this ties everything together. Sister?

Aya Fubara Eneli (29:50.169)
No, no additional comments on this particular one.

Adesoji Iginla (29:53.716)
Okay and the next one I should warn you is quite it's a bit troublesome in the sense that what we'll do is go to the BBC and the BBC says Kenya.

And it reads, so it reads Kenyans prove, wait a second, Kenya's prove paternity case against UK soldiers. It says seven people from Kenya have won a case at the family court in London to prove they were fathered by British men working at an army base in their country. Commercially available DNA bases were used to identify otherwise.

Unknown fathers, six had served at British Army Training Unit in Kenya, Batuq, and one worked as a contractor. It's the first time paternity has been proven this way in the UK court. The decision opened the door for offerings, offsprings, to apply for British citizenship. I see that's a surprise. But allow you to give us your take.

Sister first. As a mother.

Milton Allimadi (31:14.415)
You want to go to the start?

Aya Fubara Eneli (31:15.973)
When I saw this article, was like, why did I decide to pull this article? Listen.

Every child deserves to know where they come from, who their people are on a very basic, fundamental level. Having grown up in Nigeria, I have seen how cruel, and in other places in the world too, but children can be brutally honest and very cruel as well. And when you have a sense of not belonging that can...

Adesoji Iginla (31:29.706)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (31:50.301)
cause a lot of trauma in different ways. And then when you look different from the rest of the people as a result of your racial background, that is also traumatic. So to the extent that these young people are getting some closure, some idea of who they are, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (31:57.185)
even more so.

Aya Fubara Eneli (32:14.009)
And to the extent that some of these men, like the one that they have in the article actually is claiming the son and saying, hey, I did not know I had a son. And it looks like they're building some kind of relationship if you're to go by the article. I'm very happy for the young person. I'm very happy for the mother.

Adesoji Iginla (32:22.402)
didn't know.

Aya Fubara Eneli (32:33.201)
the mothers of these children who probably dealt with a lot of derision over the decades, maybe were outcasts, maybe didn't have access to the same social supports because you get called all kinds of names. So just on a very human level, I am happy for them and for them figuring out their.

They're lineage, if you will. Having said that, I am curious as to how far we're going to go with this DNA bank. And we're going to open all of them, the Chinese, the French, all of that, because there's been a lot of stuff done by soldiers, by other contractors and other people. Some of it has been consensual. A lot of it has not been.

Milton Allimadi (33:10.924)
them.

Aya Fubara Eneli (33:22.971)
So we're open up these whole DNA banks because let's do this. And I'm coming for back child support. I'm coming for educational expenses. I'm coming for everything. And yes, we want those passports and we want to be claimed on your wheels in Europe and all your countries and everything. We're coming for all of it. But I know I'm being funny here, but I'm also being very serious. Let's open it up because, you know,

Did Lord Lugar have any children in Nigeria? Cecil Rhodes has some descendants roaming around. Let's go for all of it.

Milton Allimadi (34:01.385)
No, definitely not. No, that's very interesting and that needs to be explored. That's an avenue that must be opened and I totally endorse that, what you just suggested. So these are children of, were they of British soldiers? Were they?

Adesoji Iginla (34:05.303)
Thank

Adesoji Iginla (34:21.198)
That's what we've been able to establish so far.

Milton Allimadi (34:24.22)
Okay, so.

Aya Fubara Eneli (34:25.14)
Soldiers and a contractor so far they've figured out.

Adesoji Iginla (34:27.392)
and a contractor, but they're all British, all British.

Milton Allimadi (34:28.551)
Right. Okay, so they were not in Kenya as private citizens. So this is an issue where the state has to pay compensation and reparations. Forget the passport. The passport can come later, but what they must get first is the compensation for the abandonment. This is very similar to the case of the abandoned children in Democratic Republic of Congo, where they filed a class action and obviously,

Adesoji Iginla (34:34.72)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (34:52.686)
Belgium. Yeah, the Belgian.

Milton Allimadi (34:58.62)
The lawyers need to find all of the possible members of this class action and sue just like the Congolese did against Belgium. And they won a substantial state monetary amount. And of course, they also got the passport and citizenship and all of that. So that's the part that is missing and needs to be introduced in the equation. But I also love the point that Cesar suggested. Why should we stop?

Adesoji Iginla (34:58.839)
one.

Aya Fubara Eneli (35:03.74)
Yep.

Milton Allimadi (35:28.037)
Let's go on the way with this.

Adesoji Iginla (35:31.288)
Hmm. Okay, so which leads me to the next question. You've highlighted the case of the Belgians. Sister mentioned the fact that we need to expand the net. There is a large swathe of Chinese babies running around in Zimbabwe. That needs to be looked into. But then again, what about the kids that would disappear completely?

How do we look into that? Because there's also a case in Congo of Japanese kids being denied their ancestry.

Aya Fubara Eneli (36:11.801)
Yeah, I think we covered that on this show at one point.

Adesoji Iginla (36:14.978)
Yeah, yeah, we did. I mean, you sort of see how this, when we pick the stories, is to tell you that the history lives. The legacy of those history, we talked about apartheid earlier. And the legacy of that apartheid is what is now playing out. We were talking in the story now, we're talking about fathers who, when the imperialists came in, they came in

Milton Allimadi (36:15.6)
Right.

Adesoji Iginla (36:44.404)
mostly men. There is a book, Congo, written by Kibruk, where he says most of these men came in and even the lady we did on women and resistance blew in. The father was in his 40s.

Aya Fubara Eneli (37:00.647)
Loo in here.

and sleeping with a 13 year old.

Milton Allimadi (37:08.27)
Yeah, sick.

Adesoji Iginla (37:10.068)
Exactly. So we begin to see that these are some of the untreated traumas that is still besieging that continent. So my question or my final question

Aya Fubara Eneli (37:23.347)
And remember really quick, because I can hear people saying, then Africans do that as well. Remember that that woman, that young girl, that Blue Wing's father, quote unquote, married, was betrothed to someone else. And she was still staying with her parents because they were waiting for her to mature more. She was too young to at that point get married. But this white man comes, decides he wants her, who knows what he gave the father or whatever.

Adesoji Iginla (37:31.854)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (37:42.392)
Sure, yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (37:52.857)
And the next thing, he immediately has sexual access to her.

Milton Allimadi (37:56.867)
Yeah, no, it's amazing how much you manage to really make a tremendous life out of her life, you know. Often it doesn't happen that way, you know, only one other plan.

Adesoji Iginla (38:06.017)
Mm, mm, mm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (38:08.775)
But then of course, if we go into that story, even though this young girl was defiled by this old white man, her crown of glory for her whole life, to go by Andre Bluene's book, was her mother's crown of glory was that she had had a baby by a white man. So when you talk about the indoctrination and how we participate in our own oppression,

Milton Allimadi (38:31.788)
Hahaha

Adesoji Iginla (38:33.74)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (38:34.613)
Yes, of course.

Yeah. Fanon writes about that in Black Skin White Mask when he writes about Capicia Maiotte, the Martinique novelist, you know, who writes a so-called fiction book. But Fanon says, no, I don't believe that was fiction. That was just like her maybe fictionalizing her real life and her real desires.

Adesoji Iginla (38:38.958)
Mm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (38:39.174)
It's something to behold.

Adesoji Iginla (38:42.264)
So.

in white mask.

Adesoji Iginla (38:59.982)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (39:06.788)
where the character at some point says, you know, she was so proud when she discovered that her mother was, or mother or grandmother was actually mixed, you know, and said, and then said, and then said something like, oh, so that means that if my mother had actually married a white man, I might've been white and said, oh, it's so unlucky that never happened, you know. So yeah.

It's a very destructive inferiorization, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (39:39.49)
Yes, yes. So my final question on the story would be, we knew how these children came to be, which is the sighting of military bases in so-called countries.

Milton Allimadi (39:52.419)
Thank you. Actually, no, don't say it because that was a point I wanted to make. So let me preempt you. My question was, why do we have British soldiers training in Kenya? Which African country do they want to invade? Do we have Kenyan soldiers training in the UK? So I left that point out. Okay, now go ahead.

Aya Fubara Eneli (40:11.655)
Well, but we now have Qatari Air Force men who are going to be training in Idaho.

Adesoji Iginla (40:11.852)
you

Milton Allimadi (40:17.283)
Anybody who gets a billion dollar plane, I'm going to give him a base.

Adesoji Iginla (40:18.51)
You

Aya Fubara Eneli (40:23.505)
doing dog training, golf course, and you know, hey.

Adesoji Iginla (40:29.76)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (40:30.009)
You know, the pretense that there's some separation between private corporations and government in the United States has been completely, you know, just erased by this man.

Adesoji Iginla (40:40.414)
No, mean, whoever came up with the Hatch Act will probably be rolling in their grave right now. It's like, why did we even put that? So yeah, sorry. So the question I wanted to pose with regards to the siting of military bases is, there's this unequal dynamics.

Milton Allimadi (40:49.25)
No, no, no, no,

That's good.

Adesoji Iginla (41:06.22)
when it comes to whether, I mean, the relationship is consensual or not, we cannot divorce of the power that first and foremost, we are not truly liberated mentally to say in some cases, no, mean, the lady that Wajiru, the lady that was murdered and, you know, thrown in the septic cank.

probably said no, probably said no to one. And that one lost his mind and took matters in his own hand and disposed of her. That's one aspect of it. I cannot forget Nkrumah's book, Neocolonialism, Last Stage of Imperialism, where he says, the siting of military bases on your territory means you have no sovereignty. So how can the governments

protect their citizens when they don't have this sovereignty because the siting of those bases undermines the very idea of them putting up a flag.

Milton Allimadi (42:17.951)
I think a better question would be for the Gen Z in Kenya who protested when the government tried to increase taxes so they could pay the IMF and World Bank. Why are you not targeting your protest against this? Why are you allowing your government to sell its sovereignty by basing British soldiers in your country? That should be an obvious target of protest. And if they start doing it, don't come and blame me. But I think it's legitimate protest.

Adesoji Iginla (42:41.549)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (42:48.302)
Okay, sister.

Aya Fubara Eneli (42:50.405)
I would say to the point that comrade is making.

Aya Fubara Eneli (42:58.715)
There's almost an exhaustion that comes when you have so many fronts to fight on simultaneously and so far, Gen Zers, know, my generation screwed up a whole lot. We didn't do what we were supposed to do. And then now we're like the youth, the youth, the us having this conversation with some family members of mine who are fairly well to do.

Milton Allimadi (43:15.504)
Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (43:23.371)
And this was regarding the young people who had been arrested during the SARS protests in Nigeria and they were finally being released. And I said, but you know, what role did you all play? Did you go make sure they were eating every day? Did you put money together to hire attorneys for them? You know, so these young people are being asked to literally put their bodies on the front line.

Milton Allimadi (43:41.436)
drawing.

Aya Fubara Eneli (43:46.673)
But whenever there are any concessions that are made, it's those who are already in place that benefit the most from it. And we're still not creating opportunities for our young people. So on the one hand, I agree with you in terms of Gen Z and where they should direct their protests. On the other hand, as a mother of people who are Gen Z, I'm like, whose children do you want to go and sacrifice while you're sitting comfortably in your house? And after.

you know, 200 or however many of them are killed, the few concessions that I made come back to those of you who were sitting safely. So it's a duality. And certainly as a parent, I want my children to fight. I'm fighting, but I want actually, I would rather put my body on the line that they live and have a future than to ask just our young people to do all this work because

Milton Allimadi (44:31.779)
Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (44:38.341)
It's my generation that's screwing this up, my generation and some older because Bea and the rest of them are my father's generation. then you get my point, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (44:48.675)
Yeah, but you know, sadly, I don't think we're going to do that. Unfortunately, I think the young people should. You know, they should take power. They should take power. Yeah. Yeah. They should take power. They should run the country. After all, it was the youth that took power in the 1960s. People like Nyerere, they were in the 30s. Obote in his 30s. Nkrumah was considered a senior citizen because he was in his 40s.

Aya Fubara Eneli (44:52.07)
No, I'm not.

Aya Fubara Eneli (44:58.323)
They should because ultimately they're going to inherit whatever it is. They should.

Adesoji Iginla (45:07.64)
True.

Hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (45:13.104)
and then they forgot.

Adesoji Iginla (45:17.368)
That's easier.

Milton Allimadi (45:17.742)
But many of them were in their 30s. And so they should go back and do what that generation did. The big mistake was because after they got there, they just sat on power for decades and decades and decades, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (45:32.142)
Okay, yeah, speaking of still on the theme of colonialism, now we're talking about internal colonialism, which brings me to the comrades for famous, lovely magazine, The Economist. Morocco is practicing in strange sort of colonialism. It is enriching Western Sahara.

Aya Fubara Eneli (45:32.357)
and did not create a pipeline. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (46:00.876)
to the Saharawees, it would be the Saharawe Republic, in an effort to keep it under control. people are surfing. Dahela is Africa's strangest boomtown. To many kite surfers who visit the place, a combination of peaceful waters and bricks onshore winds made it simply a great place to surf. But to the United Nations, it is occupied and contested territory. The city lies in the south

of Western Sahara, a region of the size of Britain. Morocco, which occupies over 2 thirds of the land, claims ownership of the territory. The Polyseuro front, a resistance group backed by Algeria, Morocco's longstanding rival, which represents the territory's indigenous population, accuses Morocco of occupation. And then it goes into what else? So essentially, last map.

That's the Sahara Republic, and you can see Morocco getting its claws into it. And it's basically just divided it up and taking that large chunk facing the waterfront. And that portion there is what remains of the unoccupied space. So that's it. What do you make of this? Internal colonialism.

Milton Allimadi (47:25.828)
All right, so this is a spin job, obviously, by the economist. First of all, it says, it's factually, this is an occupied territory. So they're fighting for their self-determination and independence. It starts off by telling us that the UN has acknowledged that. Not only does acknowledge the UN, and obviously, in a story like this, you cannot leave out this history. The UN

Adesoji Iginla (47:30.989)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (47:43.63)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (47:55.834)
was sent there to conduct a referendum in 1975, I believe, to allow people to vote, and they would have voted for independence. But Morocco blocked that. And since 1975 has been sending people from Morocco proper to change the makeup of the population, the demographics. You see? That's very important. How can you leave that out in a story like this? And then it goes on to say Algeria

Adesoji Iginla (48:01.138)
Yeah, fast. Yeah.

Correct. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (48:26.751)
accuses Morocco of occupation. Accuses, it's a fact, number one. Then number two, the UN has established that. So why are you saying Algeria accuses? It's like saying the ANC used to accuse South Africa of occupying Namibia. Does that make any sense? And then it ends by saying...

Adesoji Iginla (48:33.933)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (48:52.226)
No.

Milton Allimadi (48:56.685)
that so long as Morocco is creating all these good jobs and paying the Saharawi good, decent salaries and they're happy, so what? So in other words, it's endorsing this occupation without explicitly saying Morocco should continue to occupy. So that was my assessment of this article.

Adesoji Iginla (49:17.272)
sister.

Aya Fubara Eneli (49:19.763)
Okay, so go to the subtitle of that heading.

Adesoji Iginla (49:24.622)
Oh, gosh. OK, one second. Share my screen again. And it goes share. When you see subheading, first line, second.

Aya Fubara Eneli (49:36.999)
Yeah, the subheading. the subheading. So no, scroll all the way to the top. Subheading.

Adesoji Iginla (49:43.169)
It is enriching.

Aya Fubara Eneli (49:45.657)
So when they say Morocco is practicing a strange sort of colonialism, they're actually making the case of we went to the heart of darkness to civilize those people. Let's just start there. Let's just start there. And they're enriching that, know, colonialism enriched Africans. Of course, they got nothing out of it. There was no exploitation. They enriched Africans. So

Milton Allimadi (49:56.029)
I love that, love that.

Adesoji Iginla (49:57.041)
god. god.

Adesoji Iginla (50:09.698)
Hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (50:15.579)
Hmm So yes initially just Once I first saw that I was like, okay Let me drink water first and calm down before I read the rest of this article because it's about to be some BS really and and like my rat pointed out it's this spin and it's actually using words and Advocating for a thing like like giving it a pass if you will

Milton Allimadi (50:19.018)
I love that.

Adesoji Iginla (50:30.743)
Mm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (50:44.339)
And the other question I'll have is, OK, so if this is first of all, who's surfing? Are we the ones surfing? Who is surfing? Who are the elites who are out there surfing to begin with? And we keep talking about this access to water, Gaza, beachfront property, this, you know. I was actually in Rabat last year, yeah, 2024. But getting back to the article, so.

Adesoji Iginla (50:55.736)
well.

Milton Allimadi (50:56.17)
Right.

Aya Fubara Eneli (51:13.765)
you are creating jobs, right? But it's still extracting from that region that you have occupied. And where is the, where are the, the, where are the profits deposited?

Milton Allimadi (51:30.708)
Yeah, actually, Right.

Aya Fubara Eneli (51:31.475)
Exactly. So you are extracting from these. we could be looking at a situation like Congo again, where it's like, okay, if we finally do get our independence, you still set up things in such a way that you've extracted so much from us and have created an infrastructure that is alien to us. And then even if you say you're enriching the Sarawi, how many? Because it's usually just five people eating at the top.

And then the rest just work a million menial jobs. That's what we typically see. So I hope for the sake of all of us that the people of Western Sahel do not buy into this notion, whether these newspapers are trying to spin this as something positive or not. Whatever they are supposedly investing in that area, I can guarantee you they're extracting even more from that area.

Milton Allimadi (51:59.732)
Right.

Milton Allimadi (52:26.94)
Okay, very good. So I'm glad you said that. That's what I, the point I wanted to add when you said, you know, so-called enriching. They are actually not enriching. They're using the money that belongs to Saharaoui to build the road, to build a city and to quote unquote create these jobs. Morocco gets billions of dollars out of the resources. I think they have phosphates and uranium plus the fishing rights alone. Fishing rights alone.

Adesoji Iginla (52:49.186)
phosphate, yeah, phosphate gold phosphate.

Aya Fubara Eneli (52:54.341)
Yes, yes, they talked about that.

Milton Allimadi (52:56.229)
It's worth billions of dollars. So how can you say I'm taking money from your wallet and I say, hey, do you need a couple of dollars from your wallet and I'm enriching you? Absolutely absurd.

Aya Fubara Eneli (52:58.877)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (53:06.734)
I have no...

Aya Fubara Eneli (53:12.883)
Yeah, yeah

Adesoji Iginla (53:15.18)
Yes, and I mean, I could have said, I mean, they are for people who want to read more. There is actually an article from War on Once. It's it's war of once. If you go on one once dot com and the the you need to search for the new colonialism, it gives you a breakdown of how British interests have resurfaced.

Milton Allimadi (53:17.491)
No, really.

Adesoji Iginla (53:44.27)
in Africa, I mean, the probably wrong choice of word, has been further enshrined in the African continent since 2000. It gives you the list of companies that are listed on the British stock, London Stock Exchange, where you see even the Western Sahara, you see British companies in there exploiting phosphates, other mining rights. They are currently prospecting for oil.

And what they've done is they've gone in with the elites, like the sister was saying earlier, which is, here, you're going to be the face of our company, and we're going to do it this way. Yeah. So that said, I'm minded to know that the comrade would want to make his, he has class to attend to.

Milton Allimadi (54:33.253)
Yes, unfortunately.

Adesoji Iginla (54:36.744)
And Sista and I will carry on to our last story, which, yes. So until.

Milton Allimadi (54:41.155)
Yes, okay. Yeah, I think you'll do very well, solidly.

Adesoji Iginla (54:49.198)
you

Aya Fubara Eneli (54:51.057)
really wanted your input on this one, sir.

Milton Allimadi (54:53.537)
No, no, no, no. have that back, you can swing that back. the ballpark. Yeah, yeah. I have other colleagues breathing down my neck, that's right. But before I depart.

Adesoji Iginla (55:00.782)
Okay, thank you for.

Adesoji Iginla (55:09.39)
you

Aya Fubara Eneli (55:13.297)
what happens when you're a legend, you know? yeah.

Milton Allimadi (55:15.055)
Your sisters and brothers, please support this podcast. You know, the brother goes into a lot of work preparing each week. And as you know, spread also the word of mouth, not only just support it monetarily, but spread word of mouth so that we can share and have more people supporting it. So on that note, I'll continue on continuing the good work. See you next week.

Adesoji Iginla (55:31.075)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (55:40.952)
See you next week. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, so that's it. We go for our final story, which is from The Guardian. And it reads, as a lawyer, this will actually be off your street. ICC convicts former Sudanese militia leader for war crimes in Darfur. So the Janjaweed commander Ali Mohammed Araman

known as Al-Khushu found guilty over atrocities. There he is, you know, standing trial. The International Criminal Court convicted the leader of the Janjaweed militia for playing a leading role in the campaign of atrocities committed in the Sudan's region of Dafur more than 20 years ago. What do you say?

Aya Fubara Eneli (56:38.621)
So we really can't do, in my opinion, we can't do this article justice without tracing the history of the area we're speaking about and the circumstances that have lent themselves to people like...

Aya Fubara Eneli (57:01.337)
not just him, but the president, the ex-president who's also under indictment, yes, and all the people who follow them to commit the atrocities that I'm not gonna do the legal thing and say that they allegedly committed because we actually have proof that these things were done. So first and foremost is just understanding Sudan's history.

Adesoji Iginla (57:04.878)
All my help is here.

Adesoji Iginla (57:27.49)
Mmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (57:28.229)
of conquest, of resistance, of reformation that spans centuries. And you can go back to the Ottoman Empire and the Anglo-Egyptian period. Yes, when Britain in cahoots with Egypt, which they already kind of controlled, was controlling this whole area called Sudan.

Adesoji Iginla (57:35.662)
Yeah

1850s?

Adesoji Iginla (57:43.822)
and you see it.

Adesoji Iginla (57:50.07)
Mm-hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (57:51.929)
We can talk about 1821 with Muhammad Ali Pasha, who was the Ottoman governor of Egypt, invading northern Sudan and annexing northern Sudan into his region, so to speak, and Islamat, you know, making that more of an Islamic area. And at the same time, the four in southern Sudan,

Adesoji Iginla (57:58.978)
governor. Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (58:06.99)
It's fail leaflets, yep.

Adesoji Iginla (58:13.346)
Correct.

Aya Fubara Eneli (58:19.185)
were gradually being subdued through military campaigns and slave raids. And so you also have to look at just even if you want to say from a racial perspective what the northerners look like compared to what the southern Sudanese look like who are more quote unquote African looking while the northerners now with all of their mixing.

Adesoji Iginla (58:24.718)
grades. Yep.

Aya Fubara Eneli (58:47.365)
look more Arab, right? And so we can look at the taxation on southern Sudan, the forced labor, the economic exploitation.

Adesoji Iginla (58:49.07)
Mm-hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (59:02.159)
and the lack of infrastructure being created in southern Sudan compared to northern Sudan. So just like they did in Nigeria, you start to set up these regional conflicts based on how you chose to govern, right? And then you come to 1885 through 1898, and now you're looking at Mohammed Ahmad, who declared himself the maddest, we've heard about the maddest state.

Adesoji Iginla (59:29.058)
the mud is, yeah, yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (59:31.387)
And now the Sudanese have expelled the Ottoman Egyptian administration, but they're also enforcing Islamic law on everybody, including the South Sudanese, yes, who were not Muslim. And then here come the Anglo-Egyptians again, because Britain can't leave us alone.

Adesoji Iginla (59:36.782)
Now I'll call me in the bridge.

Adesoji Iginla (59:42.67)
Regardless of your persuasion.

Muslims.

Aya Fubara Eneli (59:58.759)
They come back in and reconquer Sudan at the Battle of Omduraman, right? And then they're in power from 1899 to 1956, and this whole time still exacerbating these divisions that they created. And so,

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:04.28)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:18.798)
And guess who participated in the wars in Sudan?

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:00:25.373)
Who?

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:26.678)
wasting chocho

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:00:30.355)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:30.366)
Using the Maxim gun, he even wrote eloquently about, quote unquote, shooting Sudanese, whereas they didn't even see them eye to eye.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:00:44.627)
Yeah, and now we have drones, so we don't even have to do, after that time, but yeah, you don't have to even be there. And so you see that this country has actually had more war than moments of peace. From 1856 to 2005, they were,

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:48.204)
Yeah, so even better. You don't even have to be there.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:01:09.907)
Well, no, so from 1955 to 1972, they had a civil war going on. Again, Arab, Muslim, North, and then the largely more African Christian South. 1972, supposedly there's a little bit of peace that has been reached that lasted about 11 years. And by 1983, war had broken out again, which continued until 2005.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:21.294)
Yeah

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:29.619)
Mm. Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:01:35.493)
And again, followed by, and this was because President Jaffar Nuh-Marey imposed, again, Islamic law on everybody. So for those of you in America who are quote unquote Christians or evangelicals who think your Bible, your religion should be imposed on everybody else, you are no different than any other religious extremist group who cannot live and let live.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:50.734)
should.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:59.212)
Correct.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:02:02.287)
Worship you how you want to worship and let other people worship how they want to worship but you've got a input like here in Texas the Attorney general just announced that he's coming after any of the schools who have not implemented putting a copy of the Ten Commandments Mounting that in every classroom by the way, that was a mandate to give into the school districts with no money

So they're already closing schools because of the lack of funds. But then you have to identify resources to put the 10 commandments in every single classroom across the state of Texas. And we wouldn't even ask who's making the money from when that is going to be implemented. Anyway, let's continue with Sudan. So that civil war that ended in 2005 claimed, they're saying, about 2 million lives.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:33.378)
runs.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:41.582)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:52.59)
Mm-hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:02:58.117)
Then you had the comprehensive peace agreement in 2005, which paved the way for South Sudan's independence in 2011. But then you have these ghosts from the past rising up because in 2003 armed groups in Darfur rose up against the government because of the abject neglect, which is now centuries old.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:23.119)
Old. Correct.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:03:26.021)
So what did Bashir's regime do? They armed Arab militias known as the Janjaweed, Janjaweed. And basically it's like, you're not dealing with human beings, go in and massacre. Just kill off, rape, do all kinds of things. And that carried on with impunity.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:33.538)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:41.55)
So yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:45.806)
me too.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:03:52.659)
until we had Bashar's fall in 2019. And so now you have his lieutenant, you will, Kushner Bohari, you say his name, who immediately ran away.

But then I guess, fearing for his life actually turned himself into the ICC, but they're still looking for Basheer, right? Do they know where he is?

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:14.796)
Mm-hmm. No, Bashir is in government custody. But because the government is adamant that they will not hand him over to the ICC, that remains a bone of contention with the International Criminal Court. But there is also, there is a part that I think we also should add to what you said. Omar Bashir actually armed the Janjaweed because he was losing power.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:04:20.421)
Okay.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:04:30.173)
There we, okay.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:44.322)
within the army. So in order to maintain power, he was doing what Trump is now doing in the United States, undermine the institutions so that they look to the strong man as the means of solution for everything. That was what Bashir did. In this case, the fallout was the killing and the meme which you spoke to earlier.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:04:44.551)
Yes.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:04:52.22)
with ice.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:05:11.325)
So in other words, there is a fascist narcissist playbook that all of these quote unquote strong men use, which is really code for I am weak and miserable and want to impose my misery on the rest of the world, who if they choose not to stand up and buy into the illusion of my strength will indeed be conquered. And so now we see the SAF and we see the RSF, the Rapid Support Forces going

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:17.304)
Correct. Correct.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:40.781)
Mm-hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:05:41.221)
at it. And so when I look at this article, and sorry for those of you who are like, that was a lot of history, but we need to understand what gets us to where we are and how unfortunately our experience with these Europeans, with these colonizers continues to impact. Look at all the stories we've covered today. Whether it's the Kenyan children,

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:50.85)
Yeah, correct.

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:02.232)
Yeah, legacy.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:06:05.363)
Whether it is, you know, South Africans now fighting other Africans with, I mean, all of these stories, you can just see how. Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:14.432)
and even the Moroccan one. Only two countries have recognized Morocco's hold on Western Sahara. They are France, and guess which the other one is? The United States.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:06:26.095)
USA? Yeah. And, and, and so we need to understand there is no making peace with these imperialists and there is no, well, they came and civilized us. Let us keep their law system. Let's keep their nursery rhymes. Let's keep that. No, like we absolutely have to uproot this whole thing and remember who we were before they came.

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:35.031)
And none.

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:51.49)
Hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:06:55.795)
and divided us so that we can get back to a place where we can work as one. Otherwise, all of these divisions that keep us at loggerheads are fairly recent when you think about the existence of Africa and Africans. And yet we're letting the last four or 500 years shape our sense of who we are compared to the thousands of years that preceded it.

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:10.38)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:23.19)
Yes, because we've essentially bought into a system where we didn't partake in creating such system, but we've wholly subscribed to it. We pay subscription to it. What's our subscription? We have Charles Taylor who committed egregious offenses in Sierra Leone and Liberia, serving time in a United Kingdom prison.

under the auspices of the International Criminal Court. This guy too will go down, will probably be serving somewhere in Belgium or France, depending on who can find space for him. he begs belief that, didn't we have our own judicial system?

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:08:11.805)
Then we have our own judicial system. Then here's my question is, when are they going to convict their own? Netanyahu is still flitting all over the world. So is Putin. So is George Bush. Matter of fact, we can add Hillary Clinton and Obama if we really wanted to. mean, what's his name who was vice president under George Bush? I'm looking at his face right now. There's a reason.

Adesoji Iginla (01:08:29.238)
Obama, yeah?

Adesoji Iginla (01:08:38.638)
Judge Bush, under Judge Bush, that would have been Cheney, Cheney, Cheney, Cheney.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:08:42.385)
His daughter was just on the campaign trail with Kamala. You know who I'm talking about. Cheney. All of these people and then all of the companies that made so much money from selling all these weapons. I mean, when do they get held accountable? Because ultimately, the people who have created, who have caused the most, the people who have caused the most murders in the world.

Adesoji Iginla (01:08:52.206)
Yeah, highly button.

Mm-hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:09:08.379)
are sitting on fancy yachts. They are the CEOs of these gun manufacturing companies, these defense company, you know, all who don't care who they sell to as long as they're making a profit. So if we could go against the tobacco companies.

Adesoji Iginla (01:09:17.08)
contracted.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:09:31.535)
on behalf of people who now got lung cancer and so on and so forth. Can we not go against or should we not, because we can, but should we not, do we have the willpower to go against these people who are creating all of these weapons of mass destruction? Who could have used the same technology to create better health outcomes?

Adesoji Iginla (01:09:35.662)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:09:50.433)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:09:57.134)
All right.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:09:57.309)
figure out how we can feed everybody, help the world, but instead the amount of resources that are poured into destruction, chaos, they not be tried?

Adesoji Iginla (01:10:01.006)
Correct.

Adesoji Iginla (01:10:09.567)
Mm. Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:10:15.278)
Of course, they should be tried, then we, I think we need to also understand that as the sands of time moves, so does the way this machine operates. Now we're talking about the tech bros. There is one particular guy I want everyone now to really actually go and start studying. There's a company called Palantir.

Palantir has the details, the data of every living American, all 340 million of you as a result of the likes of Musk and Doge running rampant through the American system. But when I say tech probes, there's one particular guy, Peter Thiel. Peter Thiel bankrolled Trump's presidency, specifically giving

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:11:13.492)
and backhoe JD Vance.

Adesoji Iginla (01:11:15.362)
JD Vance. Yeah. But why is that? Why is he particular? I want people to focus on him. There is actually an interview he did. And this guy asked him a very innocuous question that if I asked you, you won't even, you probably asked me why in the hell would I ask such a question? And the question that was put to him was, should humans survive?

Adesoji Iginla (01:11:42.19)
Do you know for like five minutes he couldn't answer the question and when he tried to answer, he tried to qualify his answer.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:11:50.867)
So he doesn't consider himself a human?

Adesoji Iginla (01:11:55.488)
No, it's not even the fact that he didn't qualify and consider himself one.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:11:58.523)
No, no, I'm just wondering, so if you're having to think about whether humans should survive, doesn't that include you?

Adesoji Iginla (01:12:02.614)
Yeah. Well, he clearly doesn't think he is one of you. He's saying he has the way the question, the way the question was answered was telling than what he chose not to say. And these are the people that the the team pot dictator you guys have, the United States has.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:12:08.506)
okay, no problem. Yeah,

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:12:19.377)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:12:31.298)
has sort of found out all sorts of responsibility to them.

Which brings us back to the guy in the dock in the ICC. He is just a foot soldier. The hands that drive the likes of this guy sit, like you said, on yacht in the bay in the UAE because the gold they extract in order to continue this war finds its way onto the streets of Dubai and onto the

streets of New York. Gold. Everyone knows the price of gold now, but then we are taking our resources, exterminating our people in the course in order to finance the lifestyles and whatever else of the people that have no use nor wish you any well-being whatsoever. Ebeggar's belief.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:13:39.539)
Thanks.

There is a lot that's going on that we may not all be paying attention to. I know we need to wrap up, but it's interesting that when we look at even the platform that we are on and who owns it and how the oligarchs or the tech bros are consolidating their power. so Dustin Carmack, who wrote a section of Project 2025, was actually then hired as a top executive over the intelligence area for Metta.

Adesoji Iginla (01:13:43.894)
Mm, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:13:53.367)
Google.

Adesoji Iginla (01:14:02.2)
Turned a fact.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:14:10.789)
And so now you see even more pronounced a crackdown on, quote unquote, diversity, equity, and inclusion on Facebook and everything that Metta owns. They're like literally going in there and like, OK, you post this, we're counteracting it, or we're making sure that it doesn't get any views, and so on and so forth. And in the meantime, I'm sure collecting data on those of us who are either posting or those who are liking or making commentary because we

Adesoji Iginla (01:14:30.391)
Deucia.

Adesoji Iginla (01:14:38.306)
Thank

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:14:40.703)
when they're done with the people they're going after, there's gonna be another list of people. And that is how authoritarian regimes work. And so I don't know that we are completely paying attention, but Project 2025 is completely embedded.

Adesoji Iginla (01:14:45.624)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:14:59.438)
One final point on this story. I remember when Karim Khan, the ICC chief prosecutor, was talking about bringing war crime charges against Benjamin Netawu. And he said he received a phone call and he was told, why are you going after him? We set up this court not for him, but for Africans.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:15:28.786)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:15:29.92)
In light of that, I mean, it's a statement and a question at the same time. In light of that, what should we see as the future of the court in African affairs?

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:15:45.235)
don't think that I have any, not I don't think, I have absolutely no confidence in my oppressors ever doing anything for my benefit. I don't even know why we have that expectation. I mean, we fight on every front and we use every tool that we have, but always with the idea of if you actually end up doing the right thing, the moral thing, that would be a surprise.

Adesoji Iginla (01:15:52.738)
Wow.

Adesoji Iginla (01:15:59.31)
Hmm

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:16:12.883)
Well, my expectation is you're going to carry on the legacy of your evil ancestors. And yeah, I call them evil because when you do evil stuff, you're evil. So anyway, so I have no confidence in any of these courts. I mean, certainly not in an international court. I have no confidence as a lawyer, and I have to be careful how I say this, who is considered an officer of the courts in the United States of America.

Adesoji Iginla (01:16:16.354)
doing what you, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:16:30.445)
Hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:16:42.875)
I was clear by my second day of law school, sorry I was a little slow y'all, that the American judicial system is not about justice. It's about maintaining the status quo.

Adesoji Iginla (01:16:55.406)
correct.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:16:57.299)
It's about maintaining the property rights of a handful of people who did not look like me. Now, some black folk think that they've made it, but you're not paying attention. And so, since the system is not really about justice per se, then we're just doing the best that we can to sometimes get enough of a...

Adesoji Iginla (01:17:16.141)
Mm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:17:24.691)
a ruling that gives you some space to continue to live. But it's really about making people whole, even though we use that terminology. It is not about getting to truth.

Adesoji Iginla (01:17:28.802)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:17:36.718)
Mmm. Mmm. Mmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:17:43.409)
which is why we have all our evidentiary rules, the civil rules of procedure where you can say, yeah, you can't say that because it's hearsay. So the court doesn't actually want to know the truth. We just want to follow these rules that then allow people to, yeah, and to evade the truth. If it was about truth, your attorney, my attorney will sit down and we'll bring all the evidence together.

Adesoji Iginla (01:17:59.426)
The rules, yeah. Tick, tick, tick.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:18:12.197)
And we will be honest, not camouflage, not try to, you know, twist this and keep out that and so on. But we're not about truth. We're not about justice. We're about winning. And it's really about maintaining the status quo at this time. And I hope I just didn't cost myself my, my license. My opinions, right?

Adesoji Iginla (01:18:24.206)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:18:32.173)
No, you're still allowed your opinion and freedom of

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:18:40.945)
Yeah, so I operate within the confines of the law, but I also know that I come from a tradition of lawyers who challenged what wasn't fair. And that's how we ended up with civil rights, quote unquote civil rights, or getting to the point where you had Brown v. Board of Education is people who are saying what is in place is not right, and we'll keep pushing back. So we must continue in that tradition.

Adesoji Iginla (01:19:04.663)
OK.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:19:05.221)
until we find a different way. And for Africans, there's no reason to continue in that tradition. Go back to your own traditions.

Adesoji Iginla (01:19:11.342)
Speaking of traditions, on Wednesday, as part of our continued conversation about the role of women in the war and resistance, we're going to be looking at another woman who came up against imperialist forces, Umbuya Nehada. It promises to be a brilliant conversation. So.

Yes, we're going to be looking at the life and times of Umbuya Nehanda. And so please join us on Wednesday, 7 PM Eastern Standard Time. And sister, thank you for coming again, you know, as usual. It's pleasure having you, your thoughts and your dreams for Africa. So.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:20:05.573)
It's an honor to be here and to just even be in conversation with you and comrade Alamadi and you're sharpening me every day. And I hope that we are doing a job of educating all of us and hopefully encouraging everyone to fight back in every way that we can.

Adesoji Iginla (01:20:26.392)
Yeah, I mean, same here. The Yorubas will say, walu wawetofi mo, is two hands wash each other in order for them to be both clean. So that said, thank you, everyone. Do remember, share, like, subscribe, download the audio version. You can keep that as your reference point. We should need to go back to all things Africa again.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. And until Wednesday when we should be here together and until next week, do continue to be curious and love all things Africa. Until then, it's good night and God bless.