EP 6 Biya - Cameroon Held Hostage I African News Review 🌍

In this episode, the panel, comprising Adesoji Iginla, Milton Allimadi, and Aya Fubara Eneli Esq., discusses various pressing issues affecting Africa and its diaspora, including gerrymandering in Texas, authoritarian leadership in Cameroon, the struggle for resource control, the legacy of colonialism, and U.S. immigration policies. 

They emphasise the importance of education, unity, and activism in addressing these challenges and advocate for reparations as a means of healing historical injustices.

Takeaways

*The manipulation of electoral maps in Texas reflects broader issues of gerrymandering.
*Authoritarian leaders often maintain power through the manipulation and suppression of opposition.
*The struggle for resource control in Africa is gaining momentum as countries assert their rights.
*Colonial legacies continue to impact African nations, leading to calls for reparations.
*U.S. immigration policies raise ethical questions about sovereignty and human rights.
*The historical context of colonialism is crucial for understanding current political dynamics.
*The need for a united African front in addressing global challenges is more pressing than ever.
*Social media plays a significant role in shaping political awareness and activism in Africa.
*The importance of education in understanding and addressing historical injustices cannot be overstated.
*The conversation around reparations is evolving, with more African leaders advocating for accountability.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Guest Introductions
01:03 Texas Legislative Session and Gerrymandering
05:03 Brazil's Political Resistance to US Interference
07:49 Cameroon's Longstanding Leadership and Political Dynamics
22:16 The Need for African Revolution and Change
23:19 Mining Companies and African Resource Control
25:53 The Language of Rejection: Understanding Familial Dynamics
27:13 Neo-Colonialism and Resource Exploitation
28:40 The Civilising Mission: A Historical Perspective
30:38 Spirituality and Environmental Impact
33:31 Reparations and Resource Sovereignty
35:15 The Role of African Leadership in Resource Management
38:08 Emerging Movements Against Colonial Legacies
40:38 France's Colonial Past and Current Dialogues
43:56 Awakening of Former Colonies: A New Era
45:52 Historical Atrocities: Memory and Resistance
52:43 Cultural Sovereignty and Restitution
53:59 The Role of the African Union
55:11 Restoration of Stolen Artefacts
58:25 Civil Society and the African Union
59:31 Colonial Violence and Historical Reckoning
01:04:15 US Immigration Policies and Sovereignty
01:09:56 Imperialism and Human Rights
01:18:03 The Future of African Sovereignty

Transcript

Adesoji Iginla (00:01.932)
Yes, greetings, greetings, and welcome to another episode of African News Review. And I'm your host, Adesawji Iginla. And with me, usual, is first, ladies first, Sister Aya Fibera Eneli, host of Rethinking Freedom, and also co-host of War, Women and Resistance. That is a weekly podcast on Wednesday, which I

privilege to co-host Witter. And our inestimable legend that is Comrade Milton Alimadi, guest host of co-host of Black Star News on WBAI and also the author of Manufacturing Hates, How the West Demonizes Africa.

Milton Allimadi (00:41.25)
Yes, sir.

Adesoji Iginla (00:59.788)
Welcome, Brother Milton.

Milton Allimadi (01:00.607)
Asante sana. Thank you.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05.022)
Okay. First things first, normal protocols. Let me because we are doing a news review, it will be important that we review the news from where you're at. So we go in reverse order. Brother Milton, what news stand out to you in the midweek? You're sideways.

Milton Allimadi (01:26.337)
Wow. sorry.

technology is very funny man.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:31.118)
It is, isn't it?

Adesoji Iginla (01:32.609)
You

Adesoji Iginla (01:37.784)
So but go ahead, go ahead.

Adesoji Iginla (01:45.032)
you want to go before Brother Milton comes back.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:49.624)
Sure. Well, greetings everyone from hot and muggy Texas. I'm in central Texas in the United States. And our governor has called a special legislative session and their primary goal is to redraw the electoral maps in Texas.

Adesoji Iginla (01:50.7)
Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (02:17.088)
It's usually something done every 10 years after the census, but they've decided after redrawing it five years ago and racially gerrymandering it. In fact, I was part of a lawsuit against the state for the racial gerrymandering because my district was re-drawn to become a donut.

So what they did is they came to in the middle and they carved that out, scooped that out. And you can imagine who lives in the middle. Just use your imagination. And then added them to a district that is 90 something something percent white, thereby diluting their votes and then inputting another pretty much all white district.

Adesoji Iginla (03:07.244)
Mmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (03:12.266)
into what we used to be. So it's a donut and then another piece somewhere and then a piece taken out of our donut and put somewhere else, which makes it harder for, as we talk about democracy, for people of color to actually elect people who care about our needs, who really represent us. So they did that just five years ago, and that evidently is not good enough for them, their Lord and Master Trump.

Adesoji Iginla (03:30.26)
We're representing,

Aya Fubara Eneli (03:41.102)
and the people that are controlling him because he is also being controlled have decided that they need to come for our green seat representative, Crockett seat and some other seats. And so he is called a special legislative session. This is outside of the regular one so that they can continue with their corruption.

Adesoji Iginla (03:56.386)
Jasmine Croquet, yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (04:08.98)
and their dismantling of the rule of law really and people's rights to representation.

Adesoji Iginla (04:18.062)
Mmm.

Okay, so that one is a watch and wait. But quick question. Are you, I mean, you said there is a lawsuit. What's the chance of lawsuits bearing fruit?

Aya Fubara Eneli (04:29.294)
yeah. So we are in the fifth district. This is the district where the judges pretty much go with anything MAGA wants. know, most things legally attested in Florida and in Texas. The Texas Attorney General has made a name for suing Democratic presidents. And so we started the ban on abortion and then it spread to the rest of the country.

And so we filed a lawsuit and the district court just kept chipping away, okay, these people are not eligible to be part of the suit and these people are not eligible to be part of the suit. And finally, doing the legal analysis, we felt that it would be best to actually withdraw our suit as opposed to letting them make a legal determination.

because that legal determination will be binding and it would probably be against us. And so rather than having a loss specifically on the books, we decided to step back. However, there is a push right now.

to refile in a different capacity and also their hearings that are taking, where their hearings that are about to take place. And so the group that I'm involved with is actually training people on how to give their testimony at those hearings. But I've testified at a number of hearings at the Austin Capitol, which is the capital for the state of Texas. And the Republicans have a super majority in both houses. So.

You you go and you do your civil duty because it's important to continue to resist, but the chances of success are very slim just given the majority that they hold.

Adesoji Iginla (06:25.322)
Okay, thank you very much for that update, Brother Milton. Just a quick synopsis of the story where you're at.

Milton Allimadi (06:30.486)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (06:34.294)
Well, to me, what I find interesting is the way Brazil is standing up to the US interference in its domestic politics. That, me, is... I think it should send a signal to other countries because they don't want Brazil to prosecute Bolsonaro, who did exactly what Trump tried to do. In fact, in his case...

Adesoji Iginla (06:43.074)
No.

Adesoji Iginla (06:48.078)
This is Big Boy News.

Adesoji Iginla (06:56.878)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (07:01.279)
general general

Milton Allimadi (07:03.656)
Right. He was actually planning assassination as well of the chief judge who's now prosecuting the case, assassination of president-elect Lula and some other senior judges. So now he's being tried and it looks like the evidence is overwhelming and that he will be convicted. So as they come toward the D-Day in that court case in Brazil,

The United States under Trump has been escalating its retaliation. Not really retaliation because Brazil didn't do anything to the US. It's just interference, blatant interference by insisting that they stop this trial. Otherwise, beginning August 1st, they're going to slap a 50 % tariff on every item coming to the US from Brazil. And of course, Lula has very, using very...

Adesoji Iginla (07:43.574)
interference.

Milton Allimadi (08:03.484)
diplomatic but strong language said they won't allow the United States or any country to interfere with United States politics and that once those tariffs come into place, they will also respond accordingly. And I don't think the guy knows how important trade is between these two countries. He just wakes up without knowing the facts or the

repercussions when you when the word trade by definition is that Process that's two-way flow So it's not only that Brazil exports to the US the US also exports to Brazil, you know, so I want to see how this And Brazil of course is taking the lesson from China as well When the US or it was it a 50 and then at some point close to 100 percent tariffs

Adesoji Iginla (08:37.952)
is a two-word trick.

Milton Allimadi (09:00.238)
And China retaliated and stood ground. And the US had to negotiate its way out of that process. So this, to me, is very interesting case.

Adesoji Iginla (09:11.416)
Thank you, thank you, thank you. OK, that's it. We go to the news representing Africa in the Western press. And you both touched on the idea of democracy or how it's viewed in certain parts of the world. For our first story, we go to the BBC. And BBC has a story on Cameroon. And it says, the world's oldest president seeks eight terms.

I mean, the headline too is self-explanatory. But I'll read a bit. It says, the world's oldest head of state, Cameron's Paul Beyer, 92, said he would run once more for re-election in October, aiming to extend his 43 years in power. Rest assured, that's him saying, rest assured my determination to serve you matches the urgency of the challenges we face, he said in a post on X. He added that his decision to go for a eight term

came after numerous and insistent call by peoples from all regions in Cameroon and the diaspora.

Milton Allimadi (10:19.962)
Sure.

Adesoji Iginla (10:22.217)
You

Milton Allimadi (10:23.93)
Those are dreams in his head, you know?

Aya Fubara Eneli (10:24.974)
you

Milton Allimadi (10:29.87)
Listen, this is very tragic. I'm very angered actually, and I feel very badly for the Pesisian brothers in Cameroon. I've interviewed a Cameroonian sister. I think on one occasion you may have been on that episode as well, on WBAI. I've interviewed her many times. She used to work for the World Bank and is one of the leaders in diaspora now against what's been going on in Cameroon, particularly the war between the

northern and southern part of Cameroon. So I really feel strongly for the people of Cameroon because obviously, you know, coming from Uganda, where we've had a dictator since 1986 as well, I can relate to what they're going through. you know, I don't pretend that I'm neutral or anything. I'm very opposed to what this man has done to this country, to his country, with the support of France.

in particular. And I will be editorializing, I will be doing more interviews to denounce this. And I hope there's some way to prevent it from happening. But since October is right around the corner, you know, it may be difficult, but it's a campaign that I think as many Africans as possible should join against this really abhorrent condition that this man has imposed on Cameroon.

Adesoji Iginla (11:51.395)
yet.

Adesoji Iginla (12:00.288)
Okay, sister.

Aya Fubara Eneli (12:04.078)
First and foremost, black don't crack because 92, weird. mean, the guy looks great. His wife is I think 54, 56 years old and this is his second wife. She made quite a splash when they visited the Obama White House with her wig and buffon hair and all kinds of, she's very flamboyant.

Adesoji Iginla (12:08.139)
you

Milton Allimadi (12:30.89)
Mmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (12:34.04)
prides herself on wearing the latest designers from Europe, of course, because Cameroonians don't provide any designs worth talking about or promoting. But he is, would say, the quintessential post-colonial technocrat groomed within elite French institutions. So we come back to education and

Adesoji Iginla (12:40.076)
Yes, very much.

Milton Allimadi (12:42.983)
you

There.

Aya Fubara Eneli (13:02.03)
how our miseducation continues to show up and impact us. And once you control people's minds, they don't have to actually be president in Kimmerun. They can still be running Kimmerun. So just to get an understanding of who this man is, born in 1933. Now mind you, something like 60 % of Kimmerunians are under age 25. So this man probably doesn't even have the words to have a conversation with.

with the vast majority of the people that he is quote unquote ruling over. But he was trained, of course, in France. I can't even pronounce all these names because I don't speak French, unfortunately. He studied at the École Normale Superior in Paris. He earned a law degree from the University of Paris, of course.

Adesoji Iginla (13:34.798)
Correct.

Aya Fubara Eneli (13:58.292)
European law, which is not about justice at all. And then he attended a colonial administrative training school in France. Imagine that. I would like to see the curriculum for the colonial administrative training school. I know it's in the archives somewhere. What do they teach them? Aikwame may have something to say about that. Upon returning to...

Adesoji Iginla (14:08.792)
Yeah, train to rule.

Milton Allimadi (14:11.123)
Yep.

Aya Fubara Eneli (14:23.618)
Cameroon, right after their quote unquote independence, which we shouldn't even use that word. African countries, precisely, are not independent. He served under the first president. So Cameroon, in its entire history of quote unquote independence, has had just two presidents. So first he started as director of cabinet in the ministry of what? National education. Because now he's going to take his

Adesoji Iginla (14:50.111)
Thank you.

Aya Fubara Eneli (14:52.782)
post-colonial administrative training, and he's gonna train some minions for France. And then of course, he did such a great job that he was promoted to Secretary General of the Presidency, where he served from 1968 to 1975. these are people, this is a person who's always lived off the people. You know, has not had to go out and actually earn a living besides.

being on the door with the government. Okay. And then from 1975 to 1982, he was prime minister. And the president, Amadou Ahidjo, like just suddenly decided to resign. Some people are saying it was pressure from France because, hey, Bia has gone through our post-colonial training. And Bia became president in accordance with the constitutional succession plans. And

Who set up the Carameroonian Constitution and what is it based on? Anyway, so he has been president now, like he said, for 43 years. And when he claims it's because he's running again because of this widespread support and people have been calling him from within the country and outside of the country saying, you only can save us, kind of sounds like what we heard here in the United States. But how do you do that, right?

It's authoritarian governance, dismantling multi-party democracy and centralizing power under him. Americans pay attention. It's election manipulation. All the accusations of voter fraud, constitutional changes to remove term limits. So he got rid of term limits in 2008. So he can be president if he wants to, if God keeps him alive till he's 150, so be it.

Maybe he should share what youth serum he's using. We might not want it, but, and of course, suppression of opposition, jail them, disappear them. So even when in the article, when you see some people in Cameroon who are speaking out in support of his, his eighth term, and then I'm looking at what positions do they have? How dare you go to the newspaper that's probably owned by the government and criticize.

Aya Fubara Eneli (17:18.742)
him, then you're going to be homeless if not dead. And we see that in the United States. I believe it was Stephen Colbert that just got his show canceled. Just like that. A few days after he happened to have a segment where he criticized President Trump, The felon in chief. And then of course, corruption. And then he's really even in Cameroon. It's absentee leadership.

Adesoji Iginla (17:22.414)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (17:28.462)
CBS.

Adesoji Iginla (17:39.18)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (17:39.631)
Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (17:46.914)
He's often criticized for governing from abroad. He has luxury resorts in Switzerland. And of course his wife and her children have these fleet of apartments in France. And so, yes, it is extremely concerning that he's running again. And like Brother Milton said,

May very well if he doesn't die and I don't know what God is doing quite frankly. I asked that often. If he doesn't die, we'll most likely win again. He's backed by a lot of Western allies, of course, including France, because anytime you're doing their bidding, then they're going to support you. Of course, this is a man whose personal wealth is now valued at almost $500 million. And you got to ask yourself how, where?

And yet the people are admired in poverty. The educational system is nothing to write home about, neither is the healthcare system. But he successfully stifled most of the opposition. And I don't advocate violence, but these kind of people.

do not peacefully walk away. I believe it was Frederick Douglass that says power concedes nothing without a demand, like we have to fight back. And I hope that the voices of those in the diaspora will add to the voices of those who are courageous enough to dissent in Cameroon and maybe bring some pressure to, for people, regardless of the...

election fraud that will no doubt take place for people to vote someone else into power. It is interesting that some of his lieutenants have now broken away. I guess they were tired of waiting for their turn. So we'll see what happens.

Adesoji Iginla (19:46.99)
you

For the melting, you wanted to add something else.

Milton Allimadi (19:52.15)
Yeah, mean, the saddest thing is that a lot of people don't know about Felix Moomi. People that are listening, please research. Google him. Unfortunately, there's not too much information, but he was the caliber of leadership of Patrice Lumumba. He was revolutionary. He, in fact, initiated armed struggle against Ahijo. Of course, Ahijo.

Adesoji Iginla (19:59.534)
going.

Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (20:19.352)
the French.

Milton Allimadi (20:20.448)
succeeded by his lieutenant Paul Beer. He was an intellectual. He was widely respected and admired by Frantz Fanon, by Patrice Lumumba. He was there at the 1958 All African People's Meeting in Accra, Ghana. He was in Congo for a while with Lumumba. And French intelligence tried to kill him many, times, and he survived many, times.

Adesoji Iginla (20:37.102)
people.

Milton Allimadi (20:49.479)
Unfortunately, he was duped by a French intelligence officer pretending to be a journalist who poisoned him in Switzerland. Supposedly he wanted to interview him, but I believe slipped something into his drink, a very painful type of chemical. He died a very painful death in the hospital.

Adesoji Iginla (20:50.766)
Yeah, they go to him.

Milton Allimadi (21:18.301)
agonizing because it took, you know, quite some time of pain. So that's very tragic because the history of Cameroon would have been dramatically different had Felix Mooney not been killed. And for people that don't know him, the last name is Moumie and the first name is Felix and he's worth researching and knowing about.

Adesoji Iginla (21:28.472)
different. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (21:41.826)
Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (21:42.84)
So we continue to see, and you're the master because you've written a book on it, we continue to see how these external forces intervene in our right to self-determination and then turn around and say, then look at them.

Milton Allimadi (21:53.713)
Absolutely. Exactly. Look at the savages.

Adesoji Iginla (21:56.974)
Yes. Well, just the good sister mentioned the fact that Cameroon has had only two leaders since their independence. Their independence was actually January 1, 1960. And so it's important that even when Paul Beard

Milton Allimadi (22:18.505)
But the sister is careful. And I think we have to start being careful about, you know, using that term independence because it's very deceptive really. And I agree with her totally. We cannot really say Cameroon is an independent country because when we start accepting this notion that these countries are independent, then we are wiping out the agency of the citizens because there's no way would the people of Cameroon tolerate that a country should be run like this if they had any agency.

Adesoji Iginla (22:26.808)
You

Adesoji Iginla (22:45.25)
have agreed.

Milton Allimadi (22:48.264)
You know.

So agree, these are puppet regimes, client states.

Adesoji Iginla (22:52.59)
Okay, I will.

Adesoji Iginla (22:56.526)
I'll rephrase. Cameroon got its flagged independence January 1, 1960. And Paul Beer has been in charge since 1982. Funny enough, a couple of years ago, he was considered one of four of oldest Septuagint gendarmes that was running African countries.

You had the likes of Theodore Obeyang in Equatorial Guinea. You had Robert Mugabe, the late Robert Mugabe. You had Eduardo de Santos of Angola. The last two have now left. So you're left with him and the other gentleman in Kampala, Eurimus Veni, who combined now, would say, on the better part of

120-something odd years combined within the three of them. So yes, the concept of a 91-year-old man trying to run another government is a sad indictment on African politics. I'm sorry. It's not even a good one. And the article does no justice in actually pointing out

Milton Allimadi (24:13.127)
Alright, I agree.

Milton Allimadi (24:18.661)
And that's why what I meant when I said as Africans collectively, we need to be involved because you're right, it reflects on the entire African continent, not just Cameroon.

Adesoji Iginla (24:23.478)
Yeah. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (24:32.546)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, BBC, during their usual patronisation, did no justice to the voice of the Cameroonians. I mean, they could have spoken to other people, but they chose to do the usual templates. Just ask, use autonomous voices, and then pass that off as investigative journalism.

But that said, do you have any final thoughts on that article before we move on?

Milton Allimadi (25:06.406)
free camera room.

Adesoji Iginla (25:06.926)
Or we... For a while, you were going to say, hopefully he wins. But yes, free Cameroon. Free Cameroon.

Aya Fubara Eneli (25:09.452)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (25:18.114)
I think the people of Cameroon are determined. They'll do the right thing.

Aya Fubara Eneli (25:20.75)
You know what? and at this point, I'm being very deeply influenced by Nina Simone because I've been sitting with her this entire weekend. And the word that just keeps coming to mind, and now I'm seeing Kwame Ture as well, is revolution. We need an African revolution. We desperately need an African revolution.

Milton Allimadi (25:38.989)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (25:47.534)
I mean, with the demographics currently, this crop of present crops of leaders, they're only taking time bomb as it were. Yeah, but we hope and pray, we hope and pray that it doesn't have to come to that because we can see the machinations already building up in Kenya. You can see them, this youth have taken to the streets. All you need is something else to trigger the Karameroonians for them to come out.

and decide, listen, old man, you either need to keep whatever it is you've stolen or, you know, we're going to do some level of, we're going to take some level of justice against you and those who have, because I think he's being held hostage really, because I don't think he has the mind. has the mental capacity to do such a thing, but you know, that's it. We go on to the next story and this is from

Brother Milton's best paper, The Financial Times. And it reads, it says, how mining companies are adapting to newly assertive African states. I think the headlines even says it all. Global race for critical minerals has emboldened countries to demand more control of their resources. Is that a bad thing?

Malian helicopters landed unannounced at Baric mining complex on Thursday and cut away gold escalating a dispute between the parties and highlighting challenges facing miners as African countries are set more control over their natural resources. This trend spanned West and Central Africa's cool belt, that phrase again, that includes Mali, Niger and Guinea, where military regimes have seized power in recent years.

Milton Allimadi (27:31.362)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (27:36.59)
as well as elected governments such as in the Democratic Republic of Congo. Is that a good thing or am I supposed to be?

I don't know what to make of it.

Aya Fubara Eneli (27:50.062)
Let's go back and look at language.

Adesoji Iginla (27:53.902)
Mm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (27:56.878)
Malayan government helicopters landed unannounced at a barrack mining complex on Thursday in their country right and Carted away gold carted away carted away carted away. It's like it's still okay Escalating a dispute between the parties what parties a whole country and a multinational corporation

Milton Allimadi (28:07.018)
Right, in their own country.

Adesoji Iginla (28:07.32)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (28:12.62)
Yeah stolen. Yeah stolen.

Aya Fubara Eneli (28:25.73)
that is extracting from us, looting us, and taking it over to their country. Okay, hold on. And highlighting challenges. Hold on. Challenges that facing minors. Not challenges facing the African countries that they're stealing from. Not the fact that so much is being extracted and people can't eat while their land and water and everything is being polluted. The challenges are

Milton Allimadi (28:31.66)
Yep, that's very well summarized.

Milton Allimadi (28:49.666)
Alright.

Aya Fubara Eneli (28:53.694)
on the miners. How dare you guys victimize the miners? As African countries, listen to this, assert more control. Well damn, the nerve, the absolute nerve to want to control any of your resources, but it gets better. Where's that word? No, the next paragraph, Governments have also been emboldened.

Milton Allimadi (28:58.604)
Yeah, it's four miners.

Milton Allimadi (29:06.818)
Yep, I agree with you. I mean... No, no, I agree.

Milton Allimadi (29:15.521)
How dare you.

Aya Fubara Eneli (29:23.404)
You know, it's like your little child coming to talk to you and you're like, where did this little child get the hubris to talk to us? Emboldened. Do you understand the absolute?

Milton Allimadi (29:24.852)
Wow.

Adesoji Iginla (29:27.234)
You

Milton Allimadi (29:29.868)
Yeah, You're saying no to mom. How dare you say no to mom?

Adesoji Iginla (29:36.952)
Ha ha ha ha!

Aya Fubara Eneli (29:39.31)
Have you lost your mind? That's the look I give to my children. Like have you lost your living mind? Do you know who you're talking to? Yeah, just read the language.

Milton Allimadi (29:48.192)
No, you captured it perfectly.

You captured it absolutely perfectly. Every aspect of it, every sentence of it. You know, there's no need to read any further because the language is very no, but I hope that listeners are paying attention because the language, if you're not, if you're not trying to detect it, then it looks like it's just benign and you fall for it. How dare.

Adesoji Iginla (30:04.984)
You

Aya Fubara Eneli (30:05.582)
you

Milton Allimadi (30:23.103)
You come and just hijack gold that belongs to this foreign mining company. What's wrong with you, you African government? You don't provide protection and security to these poor mining companies by coming with a helicopter and just, you know, without any warning, taking away their gold.

Adesoji Iginla (30:42.798)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (30:47.223)
Cut in the way.

I'll go.

Aya Fubara Eneli (30:51.214)
without giving us a chance to take it out of your country first.

Milton Allimadi (30:51.969)
And 99 % of the people

Aya Fubara Eneli (30:58.348)
I said without giving us notice, yes.

Milton Allimadi (31:01.598)
would not read it the way you just broke it down. And that's a sad thing about it. And that's why it's important to have this kind of conversation. And we hope that people don't just come and listen. We hope that people go and apply that type of analysis to detect the words that they feed us with on a daily basis. Because try to reimagine the scenario.

a Nigerian mining company.

in England. And let's say England has gold. England doesn't have gold, but let's say England has gold. And then British military coming with a helicopter and taking away this gold that belongs to England, but that Nigeria feels so entitled about that a Nigerian newspaper, the Lagos Times, is going to write an article saying, how dare this English military come and take away

goal that belongs to Nigeria. Think about that. I think the more people start thinking, reversing things, then they'll start appreciating what we're experiencing in terms of neo-colonialism and imperialism.

Adesoji Iginla (32:17.922)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (32:23.614)
That's all I would like to add to this because that breakdown was very precise.

Adesoji Iginla (32:24.095)
Mm. Mm.

Milton Allimadi (32:29.609)
Mm-hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (32:30.03)
There is a part in the article where it says,

something about working towards understanding of host governments. I'm actually thinking of like a plant in my garden when the caterpillars decided the plant should be their host and they just decimates the entire plant. But the plant should be understanding of the need for the caterpillar to feed off of it.

Milton Allimadi (32:54.868)
Yep, exactly.

Milton Allimadi (33:02.419)
Mm-hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (33:05.902)
And so, again...

Milton Allimadi (33:06.258)
Yeah, no, no, it's the same thing. It's the same thing, sister, in the terms of when they came to colonize, that was a civilizing mission. They came to introduce you to the true gods away from your fetishes, even though the one they brought was also, his son was somehow nailed to a cross, right? That was not supposed to be a fetish, right? But yours were fetish-worshipping, you pagan. So that's why we had to colonize you.

and introduce it to a higher guard. And by the way, along the process, we just happened to take your land away as well. We happened to turn you into cheap laborers. We happened to take away all your minerals to our country and then turn it into a manufacturer and force you to buy it. That was a civilizing mission. The same thing. How dare you step in the way of a foreign mining company that is trying to

Adesoji Iginla (33:47.299)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (33:56.184)
but at the outskirts. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (34:05.669)
Do good for you by stealing your gold.

Adesoji Iginla (34:09.795)
Hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (34:12.29)
Well, but brother, I would say that commentary is kind of myopic. You have to look at the bigger picture because we're only here on earth for a short period of time. But once you know Jesus, you get to live in eternity free. And in heaven, the streets are lined with gold. So you'll get the gold back later. And that would be for eternity. So...

Milton Allimadi (34:20.967)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (34:27.536)
Ha

Milton Allimadi (34:33.974)
Yeah

Adesoji Iginla (34:35.118)
Gold, Your gold.

Aya Fubara Eneli (34:40.842)
This suffering here now, it's okay. You know?

Milton Allimadi (34:41.276)
That's exactly what they said from the pulpit.

Milton Allimadi (34:50.652)
My god, this is my good, but we have to give them credit. They're good at what they do

Aya Fubara Eneli (34:51.566)
You gotta look at the big picture here. Projecting their own barbarism on us. And we embraced it.

Adesoji Iginla (35:00.152)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (35:03.822)
Because they're constantly, we talked about in the previous story, we talked about colonial education for our leaders. And those education is now then foisted on the people within which, when we see our leaders interfacing with them and leaders are constantly deferring to them, we too then are forced to sort of, you differ. You can't question.

Milton Allimadi (35:06.0)
Yes, we do.

Adesoji Iginla (35:32.374)
You can't possibly question that's why such an article would be written like that brazenly. But in 2025, you're a sieve, you're writing in the 1880s. You know, I mean, they in the article, there is no discussion of the legacy of the extractively neocolonial legacy of mining in Africa, how people have been displaced, their environment destroyed. But we have to

You know, embrace the pain.

Milton Allimadi (36:03.271)
No, but it's not been. It's ongoing, comrade. It's ongoing. In Congo, look at what they're doing. In South Africa, it's ongoing, this destruction of the environment and the human beings. So unfortunately, it's not even in the past.

Adesoji Iginla (36:08.078)
No no no I... Yeah yeah yeah

Aya Fubara Eneli (36:19.806)
And I would, would.

Adesoji Iginla (36:22.819)
Hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (36:23.914)
encourage our listeners viewers to look up Crédo Moutois. He wrote extensively about our traditional ways of thinking, our spirituality, but also our relationship with the land and actually likened some of the very

aggressive ways of extracting minerals from our land and so indiscriminately as raping of Mother Earth and talked about the impact of these gaping holes and of course all of the waste that comes from from the mining process and its impact on the people on the land and so I would encourage those who particularly want to take a look at this from a spiritual perspective

Milton Allimadi (37:07.908)
Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.

Aya Fubara Eneli (37:17.644)
to look up Crédo-Matois' work. The other thing that I thought of as I was reading this is also, know, AI is cute to some extent and chat GPT certainly can make your work faster, quote unquote, easier in many respects. But I don't know that we're having enough conversation about the absolute energy drain of AI.

Adesoji Iginla (37:20.952)
Thank you very much.

Aya Fubara Eneli (37:46.614)
and how that is just going to fuel more and more of a need for our minerals and our resources while simultaneously discarding human beings. Just something I wanted to put out there.

Adesoji Iginla (37:57.9)
Mmm.

So, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (38:01.774)
Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (38:02.102)
And then one last thing, talking about again, whether they can come to that the host and the parasites can come together and have a mutual understanding. I'm glad that some more African leaders are thinking about reparations. They are thinking about environmental destruction and labor exploitation. They're thinking about technology transfer and not just

quote unquote revenue sharing, although I hope that we will bring an African lens to that. I'm glad that they're thinking about the use of our resources for us with profits reinvested in the healthcare and education and infrastructure for Africans and not just for us to go and build great monuments all over the Western world.

Adesoji Iginla (38:55.214)
So one final question on this article to both of you. So would you be in favor of resource ownership and sovereignty bearing in mind that should these African nations nationalize their millennial wealth or enter into 50-50 joint ventures with outside help rather than these common explore to your heart content?

Milton Allimadi (39:19.561)
It cannot be 50-50. Why should it be 50-50?

Aya Fubara Eneli (39:22.382)
It cannot be 50-50. You know what they should do to them? They should do to them what the slave owners and the landowners did with sharecropping. You can come and work a little bit of this and you give it all back to us. We pay you a little percentage and we get to keep what we have and we get to figure out whether we want to stockpile it until we have the infrastructure to manufacture it ourselves.

Adesoji Iginla (39:23.202)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (39:45.016)
Hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (39:52.172)
But really what African leaders should do, we have enough brain power and intellect. All over this globe, you have Africans who are working in all of these fields for other countries, coming up with patents and all of that for other entities. What if we reversed the brain drain and created an opportunity, just like China funded so many of its students to come to the West, gather the knowledge,

come back to their home and supported them to actually activate that knowledge for the use of their own people. We can do the same, particularly if we work as a united Africa.

Adesoji Iginla (40:39.489)
Hmm

Milton Allimadi (40:39.627)
Yeah, not with the cat.

Aya Fubara Eneli (40:40.674)
There is not a university that I have heard of or gone to across the United States where I do not see African engineers. Not one. I mean, now under Trump, they might try to get rid of all of them, which might not be a bad thing. Let's go back to our countries and put this knowledge to work.

Adesoji Iginla (40:50.478)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (41:01.237)
Right. So no, no, I mean, that's a solution, of course. The big test we have right now is trowering in our fossil. And we have, of course, Niger and we have Mali. And these are the three that are actually leading what we're discussing right now in terms of the minerals. They're the ones that started it.

Adesoji Iginla (41:02.59)
Brother, Brother Milton.

Milton Allimadi (41:31.271)
And then Congo is now becoming more aggressive in trying to protect its resources. Although now Congo is backsliding a little because the government was about to be overthrown by Rwanda. So the president ran to Washington to sign a deal with the U.S. You know, rescue my government and I'll give you the minerals, you know. So hopefully that's a short-term situation that can be rectified. But we need

more leaders like the ones that we have right now in Burkina Faso, Niger and Mali. Although Mali recently now have been reading things about, you know, the guy trying to institutionalize his longevity, which I think of course would be a mistake and could start unraveling the success they've had so far. But ultimately, as the sister said, we need to use our resources.

to develop Africa. And we can do it. We have the brain power. The challenge, of course, is going to be the capital. But the capital, we can also generate a good part of it domestically. Because if one guy like Mobutu could steal $5 billion, if this guy, Bia, could steal billions of dollars, imagine if we capture

all that depleted resources that use the domestic. In fact, some people might be less critical of beer if all that money he stole was invested domestically into industries that belongs only to his family members. Fine. That is far superior to taking that huge part of African assets and deposit it in France or Switzerland or whatever.

where Africa does not benefit, and Ayota from its resources. And that's why I said in the very beginning, I feel very passionately against Paul Biya, and I will join with Cameroonian sisters and brothers in any kind of effort, publicity, know, campaign that they need to prevent this guy from running. And even after he runs,

Milton Allimadi (43:58.061)
and imposes himself to do whatever is necessary to get rid of him, get him out of power.

Adesoji Iginla (44:04.835)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (44:06.105)
Those are the ones that are squandering and preventing us from doing what China did to China, which is what we can do for Africa as well.

Adesoji Iginla (44:17.066)
OK, we often prefer solutions to problems on this channel with regards to the news articles we bring up. On the issue of Africa having the wherewithal to take care of its own needs, we need not reinvent the wheel. Keep going back to this book written in 1974 by Cheka Atediop, Black Africa, the case for an economic federated state.

all the solutions to Africa's economic and technical problems are in here. This was written in 1974. the thing is we just don't have leaders that engage with techs, especially in light of the fact that while Chekhe Adediyop was around, he was sidelined by Leopold Tengor because he is much more well known than him and ego got the better of him. So.

Again, the title of the book is Black Africa, the Case, the Economic and Cultural Basis for a Federated State. So that said, we go to our next story coming from The Guardian. And it's entitled, France Signals Willingness to Discuss Reparations for Colonial Massacres in Niger.

Exclusive French government says it's open to dialogue but does not acknowledge responsibility in letters seen by the Guardian. And more than a century after its troops burned villages and looted cultural artifacts in the quest to include Niger in its West African colonial portfolio, France has signaled willingness over possible restitutions but yet to acknowledge responsibility.

The June 19 response was given to a letter dated two months earlier from a UN special rapporteur working on a complaint by four Nigerian communities representing descendants of the victims of the 1899 Mission Afrique Centrale, one of the most violent colonial campaigns in Africa. I mean, let me just give you an idea.

Adesoji Iginla (46:32.654)
1899, French officers led by Captains Paul Voulet and Julian Chanon, marched triallioles as the African soldiers under their command were known through communities in present-day Niger. They killed thousands of unarmed people, looted supplies, terrorized local people into complains. The next year, Niger officially was officially absorbed in the French Africa. I have come to establish an empire, they said.

I mean, we've had these stories before, but why should we think this one is any different?

More questions.

Milton Allimadi (47:11.147)
I think it's different because the situation is changing on the ground.

Adesoji Iginla (47:16.066)
Hm, OK.

Milton Allimadi (47:16.115)
Even Senegal has now asked and it's now been implemented for France to remove its troops. Senegal, which was one of the most neo- Yeah, yeah, that's what I said. They just did. Yeah, I said they asked and it's now been implemented. So Senegal, one of the most conservative, the most neo-colonial recently.

Aya Fubara Eneli (47:28.786)
I think they have removed the last troops. The last troops just left.

Adesoji Iginla (47:39.255)
and

Milton Allimadi (47:45.203)
Now it's not with the new leadership. They're moving in a different direction now. So France is now realizing that it has very few partners on the ground that it can use to divide and rule. Now they're going to reckon with the accounting, which is a very good development actually, because you still need their resources. You need their resources, but now you don't have your military garrisons.

in their countries to intimidate their governments. Meaning you actually now have to negotiate with that. And if you're now acknowledging historical crimes, it means you're acknowledging that you're going to have to negotiate with these guys. I would like to see some development similar to this in the former British colonies. I think in that respect.

Adesoji Iginla (48:33.101)
Hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (48:39.65)
You read my mind. You read my mind.

Milton Allimadi (48:43.989)
No, I think in that respect, really, the French former colonies, which we once derided, we used to say these are the most neo-colonial African countries. Ironically, over the last five years, they've made some radical transformations compared to the former British colonies. So that's why I think this is much more serious now. And to answer your question, I think it's going to be different from the past, because now if you want uranium,

from Nija, then you're going to have to listen to how much Nija is going to be asking for you to pay. And you won't tell Nija, you know what, I'm going to unleash the garrison on you because the garrison is no longer there.

Adesoji Iginla (49:29.326)
I'm reminded that Brother Milton would live on the top of the hour. we have to thank you. OK. OK. OK. OK. Sister, are going to say,

Milton Allimadi (49:38.443)
No, let's finish the thing. Let's finish it so I'm not gonna run off.

Aya Fubara Eneli (49:49.23)
was just gonna say yes, that comment about listen, time for the former quote unquote colonies of Britain to also rise up. I think the, not I think, I know, I see that the continent is awakening in a very different way. And perhaps technology in terms of social media is really pushing this. I think when you see even how,

Adesoji Iginla (49:53.358)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (50:05.387)
Yes, absolutely.

Aya Fubara Eneli (50:16.428)
the Biden administration came against a little news media group that was hearing YouTube and on other platforms and try to shut them down. When the gatekeepers no longer have complete control of information and how people access it, it becomes problematic because a lot of what we're discussing are things that were not included in the curricula.

Milton Allimadi (50:32.682)
All

Milton Allimadi (50:36.372)
Yup.

Aya Fubara Eneli (50:46.286)
for any of these countries. So many people living in those countries are not even, I mean, except for mouth to ear, they are not really aware of their atrocities that occurred or why their conditions are the way they are today. And of course, many people were silenced and so didn't even share those stories before they passed on. So.

Milton Allimadi (50:47.978)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (50:48.131)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (51:10.286)
Mm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (51:12.01)
for our listeners, know, hopefully they can go back and read the entire article themselves. But Bouloui, one of his quote unquote infamous quotes was during this whole massacre, and we need to talk about what it was, what it entailed. He said, if I must kill, I will kill. If I must burn, I will burn. Every means is justifiable. This is the absolutely

Demented, actually no, that's being too kind because dementia you're not in control of it. This is the evil, very intentional evil mindset that these people have. You know, whole, you know, exterminate all the brutes. You left your country to come somewhere else to do what exactly? That expedition, or rather massacre, left a trail of mass executions, rape, looting.

Milton Allimadi (51:54.58)
Yep.

Aya Fubara Eneli (52:07.968)
psychological terror, they would burn people and hang them up at the entrances into villages to scare off everybody else. In one area, they slaughtered 400 people in one day. So just, I do want to be graphic so that we don't just, you know, skim over these things. Imagine in your community right now, however large your community may be or however small, 400

Adesoji Iginla (52:26.998)
Yeah, paper over. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (52:29.008)
Hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (52:36.808)
slaughtered, you know what it looks like to slaughter an animal slaughtered human beings. Not to mention all of those injured maimed and then just the burning and all of that, right? And not talked about, not taught, even as we continue to embrace white people as our saviors. Now, of course, like Malcolm X would say, the chicken did come home to roost and so

Both these captains, if you will, were eventually murdered by their own people, but then their own soldiers, but then their soldiers continued with these actions. And so who ordered this? Why did this massacre take place? Of course, it was orchestrated by the French Third Republic during the Scramble for Africa. I wanna call some names. Joseph Chaley, the colonial bureaucrat, Theophile Declasse.

the foreign minister, General Charles Dodds. These are probably people who are heralded as heroes. Yesterday, I took a group of girls to a museum locally and they had a plaque on there about Woodrow Wilson and how amazing he was. I said, stop. Let me tell you about Woodrow Wilson, the racist piece of crap that he is and was.

Adesoji Iginla (53:41.678)
pioneers.

Aya Fubara Eneli (54:00.064)
So we need to call these names and we need to pull down these monuments and let people know exactly who the barbarians are here. And why did France do it? Because of economic exploitation. They wanted the uranium, they wanted the livestock, they wanted the peanuts, they wanted the cotton, they wanted the gum Arabic, right? That were extracted to help build France. And then here's something else that people should know.

There is a museum in France. Again, I don't speak French. Musée du Coi Branly. They have about 90,000 artifacts. Well, no, no, no. France has about 90,000 African artifacts. 90,000. I don't know that they're combined, all of the quote unquote previous colonies of France have that many artifacts in any of their museums combined.

But this particular museum has 70,000 of our artifacts. And how much money are they still making from people paying to go into those museums to view these artifacts? So the exploitation has never ended on any site. And so yes, the lingering consequences in terms of psychological and cultural trauma, the educational erasure.

Adesoji Iginla (55:10.062)
Mm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (55:24.246)
where we will talk about the greatness of France, but not what they did really, the ongoing economic dependence, the loss of cultural heritage, all of these things need to be talked about. And they cannot be repaired with just money, but at least we're having these conversations in a different way. And of course, we know there are many other countries that can name numerous atrocities as well. And we've talked about some of them here before.

Adesoji Iginla (55:43.31)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (55:50.868)
Yeah, actually, that's my gripe with this article. The article makes it appear as if this massacre was kind of a unique colonial encounter. And that's very disingenuous. At the very least, the article should have said this was just characteristic of the colonial enterprise in Africa. How can you not mention the annihilation of the Herero and Nama people?

Adesoji Iginla (55:51.896)
Let it melt it?

Adesoji Iginla (56:01.272)
Thanks.

Milton Allimadi (56:20.506)
in Namibia. How can you not mention the extermination of 10 million people in Congo? In fact, by the way it's packaged,

Adesoji Iginla (56:21.336)
Yes.

Aya Fubara Eneli (56:23.447)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (56:33.598)
It discounts atrocities that were a hundred times worse than this massacre by the French. It's an important article, but at the end of the day, they still pulled a fast one on many readers that are not familiar with the history. So if you're not familiar with what Leopold did in the Belgian Congo, killed 10 million Africans, then you would see this article as, wow, look at what the French did, right?

If you're not familiar with what the Germans did to Africans in what is now Namibia, exterminating 90 % of the population, right? Then you would not really appreciate the atrocity of the colonial enterprise in Africa. Why were Kenyans fighting under the Kenya Land and Freedom Army for their land back?

Adesoji Iginla (57:16.044)
of the popular revolution.

Milton Allimadi (57:29.353)
It was because when they took over the land and named it the White Highlands, they exterminated thousands of Kenyans. Number one. Then number two, to go back to what the sister said earlier in the show, Africans have a very different relationship to the land as Europeans did or do. Land in Africa, there's a spiritual connection as well. It's not just a Kenamic.

geographical location. You know how back in the day when children are born, where is the umbilical cord stored? It's not discarded, right? It is buried on that same land, that same location, because they see continuity between the land and human beings. So that goes back to the impact of the degradation of the land.

that the imperialism impacted on Africans as well.

Aya Fubara Eneli (58:38.222)
So what I would say that brings me some, because these kind of stories would just infuriate me otherwise. And you don't want to raise your blood pressure and end up dying prematurely. But what I appreciate at this time is memory as resistance, that we are remembering, we are writing, we are speaking up. That is very important to recover the oral and archival history.

Milton Allimadi (58:58.066)
Yes.

Aya Fubara Eneli (59:08.5)
about our countries, our communities. Definitely we should be fighting for cultural sovereignty, the restitution of stolen artifacts and remains, because again, it is a key to healing. You know, think about if your beloved great grandmother had a Bible that took her through her life, and then someone else just gets to swoop it up and then put it somewhere and make money off of it.

For them, it's just an artifact, because we didn't call these things artifacts. These were things that we used to live and worship and live. And so getting our artifacts back, really important. Looking at reparations as restorative justice beyond financial compensation, it's also that historical acknowledgment. So, okay, friends, thank you.

made a little step, but you still have not really acknowledged your role in all of this. And then there has to be curriculum reform. For the hell of a matter, if we do not change what we're teaching, we stay lost. So this whole African Union's 2025 year of reparations, what do you think about it? How do you see this moving forward?

Milton Allimadi (01:00:37.327)
You know, an organization is only as effective as the membership and the leadership, correct? I think the African Union could potentially have been so much more impactful in terms of changing the relations between the continent and the rest of the world. Because at the end of the day, we have the resources.

And as Sancaro said, they cannot assassinate 54 leaders. So let's be on the same page. If they just decide on one thing, say, you know what? From now on, we'd be on the same page in terms of how much we sell our minerals for. That would change so many other things. know, social, political.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:01:29.762)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (01:01:35.949)
educational, economic, every aspect would be impacted. And that's where it starts, you know, because that, if you're on the same page on that, you can positively influence so many other things. The issue of...

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:50.989)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:01:53.728)
the restoration, the return of our, and you're right, I don't want to call it artifacts, so I don't know what to call it, but the stolen goods. That to me is very important to you, I agree with you 100%. I once launched a campaign that actually got some good traffic and got a lot of people to start writing on that issue. I was not familiar with it until I started doing research.

Ethiopia when I was writing my graphic book, Adwa.

when England invaded Ethiopia.

Milton Allimadi (01:02:38.601)
and actually kidnapped Prince Alemayejo, right, after defeating his father, and took the prince back to England. He was a seven-year-old child, Alemayejo, and kept begging to be returned to his country. And along with the child, they also stole the imperial crown.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:44.14)
prints.

Milton Allimadi (01:03:08.319)
jewelry, and I forgot which museum it is, they certainly know it's one of the museums in London has all these products. But they never returned this child back home. He died, I think he was 19 or 20. And up today, we're talking from the 19th century now, Ethiopia is demanding the return of the remains of this child. England.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:16.558)
British Museum.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:31.436)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (01:03:37.658)
I think has not been able to do that because they probably don't even know where the remains of this child is. And I'll take another example, Nyahanda. Nyahanda, this woman general in Zimbabwe fought against colonial penetration of Zimbabwe, fought against Cecil Rhodes in the late 1890s, was finally captured and executed.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:03:49.998)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:58.774)
and roots.

to Sather Rhodes Company.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:04:04.962)
you

Milton Allimadi (01:04:07.889)
along with some other of her followers. And her head was severed and taken back to the United Kingdom. Up to today, the people of Zimbabwe are still asking for the remains of this heroic general, who inspired, by the way, the resistance against the Rhodesian regime, apartheid, Rhodesia, by Joshua Nkomo and Robert Mugabe. They're all, in fact, called it like Nehada.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:13.154)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (01:04:37.765)
phase two of the struggle, right? So these are the reckoning that needs to be done. And I agree with you, what the sister said, in terms of the African Union could be such a powerful voice for a lot of these issues. You know, for many years I've been saying, and I think I mentioned this to you too, while every year while they have the annual meeting of the African Union, we in civil society

We should find a country which is willing to host a parallel

conference.

of the civilian and civil society African Union process. And that will allow us to put pressure on the formal African Union. And in fact, the civil society African Union might end up having much more impact and influence in the future if the official African Union doesn't do what it's supposed to do.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:33.238)
much more. Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:05:42.574)
Brother Milton, what would it take for us to implement that?

Milton Allimadi (01:05:45.431)
I think we should find a willing country and host the first one next year. This will grow because we're not the only ones frustrated by the lack of inertia by the African Union.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:05:58.36)
So when you say a willing country, you're talking about a willing African country?

Milton Allimadi (01:06:01.793)
a willing African country, it would be better because then it would allow.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:06:04.94)
Well, let's call let's call let's call brother Traore.

Milton Allimadi (01:06:08.079)
There you go. No, you may be right on the money, you know?

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:13.582)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:06:18.262)
Listen, it'll bring quote unquote tourism, money into the country, whatever. Of course, they could also then just send drones and blow us all up at the same time. But why not? I mean, it has to start somewhere.

Milton Allimadi (01:06:22.607)
Yes, no, agree with you.

Milton Allimadi (01:06:31.287)
It has to start somewhere and it needs to, it needs to.

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:31.704)
mean, OK, so we're talking about the massacre of Africans by a colonial force. And Brother Milton mentioned the fact that we have to understand that these things were not done in isolation. Majority of those massacres happened as a result of the Berlin conference.

Another Berlin conference, one of the key dictates in you being assigned a territory or what's the word, dominion over space was a term, a phrase known as effective occupation. Effective occupation meant you had to go in there and lay down the law as it were. What was the law? The law was effectively use force to subduke, not subduke.

The words, I'll use their colonial term, to pacify the population, know, pacify the savages, ensure that they were basically subsumed under your authority. And suffice to say, in the course of doing this, you've mentioned Germany. You mentioned Herero and Nama in what's it called, in Namibia, southwest Africa at that time, now Namibia.

But we then lose sight of the fact that Germany also at some point controlled part of East Africa. You remember the Maajimaiji massacre, where 300,000 people were killed in two weeks. In two weeks. So that's 300,000 there. That's plus the odd 1. something million on the other side of the world. Now you bring in Belgium, which through Leopold got rid of. And I said got rid.

need to be explicit, massacred another 10 point something million people, some then maimed for life, you know, we've not even counted the ones maimed for life. Then you have the French, with their numerous expeditions, not just in Niger, but across the entire West Africa, in Madagascar as well, which is on the other side of the world, you know, still part of the African continent, but on the other side of the world.

Adesoji Iginla (01:08:56.876)
So much so that they still have a place that they still consider part of their territory, which is about 600, 700 miles away from France. And lest I forget the British, the ones with the smile and the cutsy, the expeditions within the space that we know as Nigeria alone are not less than seven, the most famous of which is the Mini Expedition, where they level the place.

you know, destroyed all the artifacts. Some of the most, I mean, some of the best architectural pieces that even those that came before them marveled at, were laid waste to. Now you have all of that sitting in the British Museum and they expect us to go there, to go and look at these things in places that they do not belong and expect us to lode to them. What would be my solution? My solution would be first and foremost, we need to revamp

our curriculum, the educational curriculum. If the kids don't know about this stuff, when we talk about it, it seems to see if it's magic. But these things are well documented. I saw that the space where it is very important for them to know about it. So what are we doing in that terms? Make books familiar. Some kids within the African space don't even know about the transatlantic slave trade.

They don't know about the trans-Arab slave trade. So all of this stuff means when they come onto social media and they're having conversations with people on the other part of the world, the conversation is just constantly at loggerheads because, for one, you don't know who you're talking to and you don't know why it is conditions are the way they are. I just say that to you, buttress the point that, yes, you want to offer reparations.

But there must be a way to expand this to make it not just a one-off, but also a way to build the information circle around events like this. You know, this massacre was not a one-off and there will be more that will still come up. So I just say that to say if people need, what's it called, a reference point, I always go back to the books. This book was released in 2024, titled

Adesoji Iginla (01:11:24.11)
15 Colonial Terms, a Guide to Leaded African Heritage in Museums. The bedrock of most of those stuff are massacres and expeditions. So the book is written by, what's his name? Two of them actually. It's edited by Selah Ajay and Yama Lako. They actually start during the pandemic, they actually started chronicling all the stuff, British stuff, I British.

all the African artifacts that were in the European museums. that's one for the ages. So any final thoughts on that story before we go to the last and final one?

Adesoji Iginla (01:12:09.152)
Okay. You've been drained by the French. So the final story, we have to give kudos to, again, the Guardian, but this time it comes from the United States. So I have the right people in the house to talk about it. U.S. Badazar says he doesn't know the fate of eight men deported to South Sudan. Men from Mexico, Cuba, Vietnam, Laos, and Myanmar.

Milton Allimadi (01:12:09.282)
Not on my end.

Milton Allimadi (01:12:14.084)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:12:37.858)
were removed from the United States and flown to the war-torn country. That's the man, Tom Homan. Tom Homan, the US Bothasar, said he does not know what happened to eight men deported to South Sudan after the Trump administration resumed sending migrants to countries that were not their place of origin, known as third countries. They are free as far as we are concerned. They are free. They are no longer in our custody. They are in Sudan, Homan told Politico on Friday. Will they stay in Sudan? I don't know.

Administration officials said the men had been convicted of violent crimes in the US and only one of the eight reportedly had connection to South Sudan, which recently emerged from a civil war. The others included two people from Myanmar, two from Cuba, and one each from Vietnam, Laos, and Mexico. South Sudanese authorities said on Tuesday the men were in custody in Juba, other the care of relevant authorities who were screening them and ensuring their safety and well-being. So I suppose the question is,

Since when did people lose their sovereignty to the point that they can be imposed on? And what does this import deportation mean for African countries and the like?

Milton Allimadi (01:13:55.585)
Right, so two quick things. You say lose their sovereignty. And I understand what you meant, but you can't lose something you never had, you see? So I think this is just really clear proof that these countries are not really sovereign independent countries. And how did they start with South Sudan?

Adesoji Iginla (01:13:59.758)
you

Adesoji Iginla (01:14:04.462)
Yeah. Cool. I'll go. OK. OK.

Adesoji Iginla (01:14:11.726)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:14:21.314)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (01:14:24.733)
Remember a few months ago, Marco Rubio, Secretary of State, just unilaterally banned any new visas for people coming from South Sudan, right? And the question was, you know, why this is one of the countries with the weakest governments in the world, the weakest economy, you know, and I prefer to use terms like weak economy because it has resources.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:14:31.21)
Mm-hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:14:38.487)
I hope.

Milton Allimadi (01:14:53.602)
I don't fall for this nonsense by the New York Times that they're poor. They're not poor. But the economy is weak. So it's a fragile country. So you slap this visa ban on it. And now we understand why. Because now when you come with a deal like this, it's an offer that South Sudan cannot refuse. Because it's weak and it was further weakened by the imposition of that unilateral visa ban.

Adesoji Iginla (01:15:06.19)
You

Adesoji Iginla (01:15:20.814)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:15:22.815)
You know, sadly, obviously, we're going to see more of this. Nigeria happens to be much stronger than South Sudan. And that's why Nigeria was able to say, no, we're not going to take these Venezuelans. know, South Sudan is not sufficiently strong to make that kind of statement. You know, the government is already very wobbly and it may still eventually collapse anyway because of the internal issues they have right now. But at the end of the day,

Adesoji Iginla (01:15:48.206)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (01:15:52.553)
It's going to take, you have to resist. That's the only way that you can resolve the situation. That's why I started off by talking about Brazil. What Brazil has done, hopefully will inspire more countries. What Nigeria did in refusing the Venezuelans, that might inspire more African countries to do the same.

And if they all start doing it, and I keep talking about collective, collective, you know, we talk about this all the time, but ultimately that is the best solution really. If as a pack, the countries in West Africa say no uniform policy, we won't have it. And reminds me of when the U.S. was looking for a location for Africa. It wanted on the ground an African country to host Africa.

And it went to Liberia, and Liberia was considering it. And that's the one instance where I say Nigeria used this local regional might appropriately. And one Liberian said, no, we won't tolerate it. And if you allow Africa to be based there, you'll pay a price. So that's where Nigerian imperialism was very effective and very call for at that moment.

Adesoji Iginla (01:17:09.134)
You

Milton Allimadi (01:17:15.21)
So we need to have those type of approaches. No one of these countries will accept, this is nothing new. know, under Obama, they used to call this rendition, right? It's very similar. So you say you won't accept rendition, otherwise you'll be consequences for it. So once they have a uniform regional solution, then the US might at some point start thinking twice before they start doing this. But now, so long as Sudan is saying, okay.

Adesoji Iginla (01:17:16.27)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:17:27.16)
Yep.

Milton Allimadi (01:17:44.896)
there's going to be a lot more dumped to South Sudan.

Adesoji Iginla (01:17:51.63)
system.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:17:51.726)
Brother, can you pull up that article again, please? Let's look at the text. And as you're doing that, I'm hearing Kwame Nkrumah saying, if you all would have listened, if you had a United States of Africa, guess what? You could not single out any small group and bully them. America, Trump.

Adesoji Iginla (01:17:55.179)
wait a second.

Wait a second, wait a second, wait a second.

Milton Allimadi (01:18:07.218)
Mm-hmm.

Yup, yup, yup, yup.

Adesoji Iginla (01:18:11.743)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (01:18:15.968)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:18:16.29)
Okay.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:18:17.472)
America just big bullies, but let's go to let's go to this article US border czar says he doesn't know fate of eight men deported to South Sudan Pray tell what is the definition of a czar? Historically used to designate a monarch or supreme ruler particularly in Russia Bulgaria and Serbia

Milton Allimadi (01:18:18.57)
Yeah. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:18:19.63)
Here we go.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:18:45.218)
The word comes from the Latin Caesar used by Roman emperors and implies imperial authority. we, are, what, how many other places does America use czar? You may be drug czar, know, but what, in, in, in a positive way where you are trying to do something beneficial for people. So first and foremost, this is an imperial leader.

who is going to tell the rest of the world because he has the might of America's nuclear weapons behind him. This is the man, we need to call these people by name. Please scroll down if you can. before you do that, actually, just staying where you are. Where were these eight people originally from or citizens of or whatever? Look at the countries and what do they have in common? I don't see France. I don't see Canada.

Adesoji Iginla (01:19:24.46)
OK, one second.

Adesoji Iginla (01:19:33.676)
Next.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:19:42.804)
Don't see I don't see Russia even I don't I don't see wait a second how many of the 9-eleven hijackers were from UAE it's out there. Okay. I don't see them listed on here. So it's also looking at the people that you pick on Mexico Cuba Vietnam Laos my okay, so for anyone who wants to do this, which I encourage you to

Adesoji Iginla (01:19:53.454)
Sorry, I don't know.

Milton Allimadi (01:20:02.556)
Right.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:20:11.766)
Now go and study our history with those countries and particularly look at the struggles America has had with those countries. But let's carry on. And then of course they say flown to a war torn country. So you already know this. All right. So people should know Tom Holman. And if you practice any kind of form of spirituality where you can harm this man, I'm not putting any ideas in your head.

But this is the same guy who orchestrated the separation of children from their parents. The cruelty is the point. The absolute, only white, so-called Christians, because they're not, heterosexual men deserve to live and have any freedom or happiness. Everybody else, can tear them apart, and we don't give a damn.

So all of a sudden South Sudan is in the news. Most people don't know, couldn't, if I said a million dollars, point out where South Sudan is on a globe. Most people in America couldn't do it, but we're going to send people to this place and we don't care how they're doing. Now, what are the laws in South Sudan for people who have committed the crimes that these men have committed or were accused of committing? Cause I don't even know what kind of,

Adesoji Iginla (01:21:18.136)
Hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:21:37.422)
legal representation they had. Okay. I do know that one of the men was 17 years old when he was convicted of murder. So in America, he's still considered a minor unless they tried him as an adult and he's not eligible for the death penalty. We like to talk about being able to, what's the word that I'm looking for, rehabilitates people. So he was 17 when he committed this crime.

Now you're sending him to South Sudan. I'm not making a case for these men as individuals. I'm looking at the precedent this sets. And today it's this group and tomorrow it could be someone who looks like you or someone who's a friend or a relative of yours. Because once you start eroding the laws, it's done for. Where did this whole notion of third nation come into play?

it was actually supposed to be for asylum purposes, not for deportation, not for punishment. But if you look at the laws in South Sudan, for the crimes that these men have been convicted of committing, in South Sudan, they are punishable by execution, by firing squad. So when he says, hey, we've dumped them, we don't know what's going on, and quite frankly, we don't give a damn.

Milton Allimadi (01:23:03.417)
Yep, they don't give a damn.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:23:04.994)
these men could experience whatever. Now, of course, the other extreme of it, because I do not put anything past this country, is that you're actually taking people and putting them in another country. Of course, those countries, whatever, strong-armed have accepted them, that may eventually become cells, leaders of cells that could create a lot of problems domestically for these countries.

Adesoji Iginla (01:23:33.548)
Hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:23:33.678)
I mean, that's a whole other notion to it. But just in terms of historical parallels in America's cruelty, some may remember the St. Louis incident in 1939. The U.S. turned away the MS St. Louis, a ship carrying over 900 Jewish refugees fleeing Nazi persecution. Of course, many of them were later killed in the Holocaust. It was a government prioritizing political calculations over humanitarian responsibility.

And that's what we see happening here. We saw it with a Japanese internment in 1942 to 1945 with over 120,000 Japanese Americans also enter. Again, it's, hey, we're just going to forcefully relocate, incarcerate you. Yeah, like later we acknowledged it wasn't just, there was some reparations, but again, it's this overreach.

Adesoji Iginla (01:24:04.717)
Hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:24:25.388)
that strips individuals of their rights under the guise of national interest. Because that's what MAGA is doing, is making America safe. We've seen it with the renditions like Brother Alamadi brought up in 2000s, where the CIA would transfer detainees to foreign countries for interrogation. So all the ways that they second-bent the law, and what I'm telling people who are listening is,

Adesoji Iginla (01:24:33.806)
Mm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:24:48.748)
Yes, you may not care about these men. Yes, they may be violent criminals, but once you set precedent, then you can start applying it to more and more and more things. So there are all kinds of, you know, as an attorney, there are all kinds of laws that are being broken here, at least from what I studied in law school, whether you look at due process under the fifth, the first and sorry, fifth and 14th amendment, or you look at cruel and unusual punishment under the eighth amendment.

Adesoji Iginla (01:24:56.035)
But.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:25:16.502)
I think there's a violation of international law here because the US is supposed to be a signatory to the International Refugee Convention, which prohibits refilement, returning individuals to countries where they may face harm. What is going to happen to people being transported to a prison in a war-torn country with no resources? Well, no, with plenty of resources that they can't utilize for themselves.

Adesoji Iginla (01:25:19.502)
Clearly.

Adesoji Iginla (01:25:37.294)
in a world country, can you imagine?

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:25:46.292)
So all in all, I look at this and I say, yeah, big white man standing in front czar, I'm imperial, I'm all powerful over you black and brown people. And some people cheering, some people saying, well, you know, I'm a foundational black American. Yeah, kick them out. This has nothing to do with me until they come for you. But this definitely marks a significant shift in US immigration enforcement.

away from humanitarian principles if we ever had any because of course under Biden we saw the Haitians being whipped with chains with immigration officers on horsebacks. But if this is not challenged, if it's left unchecked, very dangerous precedents being set here.

Adesoji Iginla (01:26:35.01)
Yes. Hopefully, Africa doesn't become a disposable destination for the savory characters of the world. But.

Milton Allimadi (01:26:45.81)
It already is.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:26:46.23)
Well, it's been a disposable destination for all their trash. How much of Europe and America's trash is floating or is in our soil? So yeah, why not their human trash as well?

Adesoji Iginla (01:26:49.198)
.

Adesoji Iginla (01:26:59.79)
you

Milton Allimadi (01:27:02.391)
At the end of the day, comrade, at the end of the day, at the end of the day, this is our struggle. mean, the U.S. will do what imperialism has to do, and has always done. If we don't do the kind of analogy I gave, where Nigeria won Liberia, if you do this, you're going to pay the price, why should the U.S. You know, when we have so many compromised, corrupt...

Adesoji Iginla (01:27:03.148)
I'm trying to live on an optimistic note.

Adesoji Iginla (01:27:16.376)
Yeah. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:27:25.932)
This is what happened. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (01:27:32.266)
leaders who have no principles at all. We need a few to set the precedent, you know. Otherwise, I agree with the system, absolutely. This is going to be something that is unstoppable.

Adesoji Iginla (01:27:36.6)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:27:45.208)
This will continue to happen.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:27:50.926)
Well, can I share something a little positive then? If you want to leave on a... So the song that has been playing in my head through this whole broadcast is Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes, Wake Up Everybody. And I'm not gonna sing it, but I'm just gonna share some of the lyrics, because they're so appropriate. Wake up everybody, no more sleeping in bed, no more backwards thinking, time for thinking ahead. The world has changed so very much from what it used to be, maybe not quite, but...

Adesoji Iginla (01:27:54.38)
Good.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:28:20.28)
There is so much hatred, war and poverty. Wake up all the teachers, time to teach a new way. Maybe then they'll listen to what you have to say, because they're the ones who coming up and the world is in their hands. When you teach the children, teach them the very best you can. Wake up all the doctors, make the old people well, because they're the ones who suffer and who catch all the hell, but they don't have so very long before their judgment day. So won't you make them happy before they pass away?

Wake up all the builders, time to build a new land. I know we can do it if we all lend a hand. The only thing we have to do is put it in our minds. Surely things will work out. They do it every time. And of course, know, those who know the song, there's a whole chorus that goes along with it, but just ends up with wake up, wake up. We all need to wake up.

Adesoji Iginla (01:29:09.87)
Yeah, speaking of waking up, next week we're going to further wake up the spirit of Tomo Sankara. So next week we're going to be talking about the lives and times of Tomo Sankara, the Bokinafasso Revolution 1983 to 1987. So join us for that and on that.

very positive note from the Melvin and the Blue Notes and the idea that we're going to speak to the people's captain next week. Brother, comrade, any final thoughts?

Milton Allimadi (01:29:46.42)
Yeah, listeners who want to, plan to join that conversation, if you haven't watched the documentary, go to YouTube. Thomas Sankara, The Upright Man. It's only 50 minutes, so it'll give you a good synopsis of the life of this exemplary African revolutionary. Aluta Continua.

Adesoji Iginla (01:29:55.458)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (01:30:07.116)
Yes, Victory has set us. Sister?

my God, the blackface. I would leave you with, the struggle continues. I will leave you with a thought of Kwame Nkrumah, Africa must unite or perish. So thank you all for coming through. I hope it's been a wonderful experience as it's been for me this week. This conversation gives me hope that there is.

Milton Allimadi (01:30:16.07)
The struggle continues.

Milton Allimadi (01:30:27.91)
very well put.

Adesoji Iginla (01:30:42.68)
positive thoughts out there and there's a way around all the problems that we face and it doesn't have to be so. And so until next week, it's good night and God bless.