EP 3 The CIA, JAZZ and LUMUMBA I African News Review 🌍

In this episode, the panel, hosted by Adesoji Iginla and featuring Milton Allimadi and Aya Fubara Eneli Esq., discusses the 2024 documentary 'Soundtrack to A Coup d'Etat' by Johan Grimonprez and its portrayal of the Congo crisis within the broader context of African decolonisation. 

They analyse the representation of African voices, the role of women in the struggle, and the impact of imperialism and neocolonialism. 

The conversation also examines the impact of media on public perception and the historical lessons that can be gleaned from the past to inform future actions in the fight for African liberation.

Takeaways

*Movies and documentaries often serve as propaganda pieces.
*The need for Africans to produce their own narratives is crucial.
*The CIA played a significant role in undermining progressive governments in Africa.
*Control of narratives is essential to prevent the distortion of African stories.
*The media have historically been a powerful tool for shaping perceptions.
*Social media offers new opportunities for mobilisation and organisation.
*Understanding the blueprint of underdevelopment is vital for future progress.
*Women have historically been marginalised in narratives of liberation.
*The role of imperialism continues to affect African nations today.
*Learning from past mistakes is essential for current and future leaders.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Documentary and Panellists
01:25 Analysing the Congo Crisis and Decolonisation
07:27 The Role of Women in the African Liberation Struggle
15:30 The Impact of Imperialism on African Leaders
23:26 Media's Role in Shaping Perceptions of Africa
29:20 Lessons from History: Underdevelopment and Resistance
35:44 Concluding Thoughts and Future Directions

Transcript

Adesoji Iginla (00:02.101)
Yes, greetings, greetings, greetings, and welcome to another episode of African News Review. Today, we're going to be taking a special look at a documentary that came out in 2024. But before we talk about that, I will introduce my various team panel. I was ladies first. That would be the host of Rethinking Freedom.

co-host of Women and Resistance. She's also the author of Self-Love Revolution. And my sister from Madadaboda, Aya Fubera, NELA Squire. How are you, sister?

Aya Fubara Eneli (00:42.708)
Wonderful and so glad to be in conversation with both of you brother Milton. I was just watching a video that you did on the battle of Adara. anyway, thank you for all the work that you do.

Adesoji Iginla (00:58.517)
Okay. So, I mean, that's a very good segue, if not anything. Yes, he is a writer, a playwright. He's the host of Black Star News, WBAI, New York Radio. He's also the author of Manufacturing Hate. And he is a voice like no other. He is none other than comrade Milton Alimadi. Welcome.

Milton Allimadi (00:59.118)
Thank you, thank you comrade.

Milton Allimadi (01:23.278)
You

Thank you Ndugu. Asante sana. Thank you.

Adesoji Iginla (01:31.379)
Yes. And so, yes, we're going to be looking today at basically giving our own idea of what we think of the documentary titled Soundtrack to Equidita, which came out January 2024, directed by Johan Grimoire Press, Belgian. And so the first question I would pose and anyone can answer this question would be

If you situate the Congo crisis within the wider African decolonization struggle, looking through the lens of that movie, would you say it was an accurate representation?

Milton Allimadi (02:17.079)
Sister Grant.

Aya Fubara Eneli (02:21.26)
I get nominated for that.

Adesoji Iginla (02:21.992)
I she's frozen.

you

Aya Fubara Eneli (02:27.732)
say no and I'll very briefly explain why. know, movies, documentaries, these kind of pieces are ultimately propaganda pieces. Somebody is trying to present a narrative to get you to feel a certain way. It's very, you want people say I'm objective, know, they're not, so the lens through which that whole

movie, documentary, whatever you want to call it, presented on the lens through which they evaluated the information and how they presented it was a very, I would say, pro-Western view because I've now watched it five times. And the first time after watching it, first of all, you just, as an African, I just felt this deep pain and anger over

Adesoji Iginla (03:13.812)
Hmm?

Aya Fubara Eneli (03:26.38)
how each time we try to liberate ourselves, these fascists are intent on keeping us enslaved and keeping us in bondage. Then they'll turn around and say the white man's burden and so on and so forth. Leave us alone then and let us chart our own course. And you never do, you're always interrupting. So it was just that, first of all, just that anger.

But then there was this other part where there was also an anger and a frustration against the African-American musicians that were presented in it. And these are musicians that I have known in other ways. And I had to stop and say, what is it that these people did so effectively that would make me now start looking at my

Max Roach in a way like hey, are you not for us or Lewis Armstrong and so on and so forth and then realizing just how my emotions had been manipulated based on the information that they had presented. So getting back to your question.

putting it in the larger context, you did not hear African voices speaking for themselves. It was very much a Westerner coming in and imposing their lens and their narrative and what voices they wanted to center. They didn't even center Lumumba's voice or his own speeches, let alone any of the other African leaders fighting for our.

liberation. And so yes, they did not do us a service, but they certainly did themselves a great service. Brother, what is your take?

Milton Allimadi (05:15.644)
Well, okay, I think, comrade brother, I think your question is a bit unfair, to be honest. And I say this in a brotherly way. I think it's very difficult to have an accurate documentary if it's not made by Africans. So, and that's what our sister is addressing. You know, we need to produce our own. I think

Adesoji Iginla (05:23.382)
Hahaha

Adesoji Iginla (05:35.209)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (05:44.678)
I would like to compare it with other documentaries that have been made about the Congo, the role of imperialism in destroying the Congo. Then in that say, I would say it's probably one of the better ones of what outsiders have made, but it can never be accurate until we make it ourselves. It shows how

Adesoji Iginla (05:51.86)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (06:04.565)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (06:11.764)
beautiful jazz music was used as propaganda, really, to disguise the ugly role that imperialism was playing in destroying the Congo, in overthrowing Lumumba's government, in having him brutally murdered. I like that. And I don't know how to pronounce her name. Andree Bluin, I'm sure I'm saying it incorrectly.

Aya Fubara Eneli (06:38.284)
and graceful means.

Adesoji Iginla (06:38.421)
Thank

Milton Allimadi (06:40.879)
Okay, right. like that she, okay, great. I like that she gets some play because this is a courageous lady. And obviously we have many women of that caliber who never get their props, you see? Advisor to Secou Touré, advisor to Lumumba, surviving assassination attempts. I think they tried to kill her like three times and still staying there.

Adesoji Iginla (06:40.946)
Andre Bluin

Aya Fubara Eneli (06:42.668)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (07:07.807)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (07:09.392)
This lady even endured rape, you know, after Lumumba was murdered. And they targeted her because she knew how instrumental she was in allowing this government to exist for the number of months, the few months that it existed. She was writing the speeches. She was giving him, she was like her, his foreign minister, okay? Giving him critical advice.

I think our brothers and sisters in the jazz music world were duped. But I like the fact that at the end, when Louis Armstrong realized that he had been duped, he was very angry about it. And I heard he even said he was, wanted to leave the US and to resettle in Ghana because he didn't know he was being played to cover up for, know, imperialism. In fact,

Adesoji Iginla (08:00.735)
going on yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (08:04.82)
You

Adesoji Iginla (08:08.97)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (08:09.094)
when he went to the Congo, I think it was on his second trip. At that time Lumumba was already under house arrest. He didn't know what was going on. He found out after the fact about that. even though I would never, I say this music, this documentary is accurate in any way, I'm glad it exposed some of the ugly role that the U.S. was playing.

Adesoji Iginla (08:16.809)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (08:38.316)
in the Congo at that critical moment in its history. Because then of course, and I'll make one other point after I say this, that template is what they use to destroy all other progressive governments throughout Africa. In Ghana, they went, the same CIA was involved in overthrowing Krumah. And then finally, what the movie also, the documentary also shows is,

what progressive brothers and sisters in this country were trying to do to assist African countries really make their independence become a reality and not just on paper. People like Maya Angelou invading the United Nations Security Council to protest. You saw them fighting with security guards. You know, that's the kind of energy we need from, go ahead, Sister.

Adesoji Iginla (09:25.641)
mission.

You

Aya Fubara Eneli (09:34.028)
The point is that wasn't featured in the documentary. So largely you do not get a sense of any solidarity really between African Americans and Africans and the work that African Americans were actively doing pushing for the liberation of Africa. That voice was completely erased from the documentary.

Milton Allimadi (09:57.014)
Right. Right. And that's the documentary that we need to make. In fact, we always confronted with, and you know, and it's totally us to blame actually. We have the resources, we have the African filmmakers who have the talent and you know, they've made some interesting documentaries, but why have they not

I found it worthwhile to put their energy on telling the story that this Belgian filmmaker is trying to tell when we could do it in a much more better way and effective way. So a lot of the blame I also impose back on us, know, whether it's our filmmakers, our writers, you know, we need to take control of our agency. Otherwise, others will always be distorting our stories, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (10:40.213)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (10:57.235)
Yes, which leads us to.

Aya Fubara Eneli (10:58.164)
And I think we've shared in this space before that until the story of the hunt is told from the perspective of the lion, you're always going to get what the hunter says. And so that's what we see. Having said that, I mean, it was powerful. And it's definitely an entry point for anyone who is interested to now go and further research.

Milton Allimadi (11:06.302)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (11:12.958)
Absolutely.

Adesoji Iginla (11:12.977)
I did, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (11:27.148)
absolutely have to go and get the book on Andre Bluene and study her. yes, a very powerful woman. And I'm glad her story is out there. It's also interesting for me as a woman.

Milton Allimadi (11:30.815)
Hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (11:43.946)
how even in these narratives, how we're positioned because definitely she's brilliant without a shadow of a doubt. I think that if she looked different, perhaps she would not have been centered in quite that way, but this mulatto and then the quote unquote sex, so I personally brought another element to the story.

Milton Allimadi (11:52.353)
Here you go.

Milton Allimadi (11:59.337)
Yes, yes, yes, yes. True, true, true, true, true, true.

Adesoji Iginla (12:06.493)
Yeah, so speaking of that, actually, Andrea Bluene made an assessment. said in the movie where she said, and I'm trying to paraphrase now, where she said, while we seek independence for the entire African continent, what we actually need to be seeking independence for is the women. In the movie, Bluene, Maria McEver, Maya Angelou,

what's her name what's the other lady her name is yeah Nina Simone those were voices at some point but you get they were at opposite of where you had Nina Simone was sent to the African continent as part of the cultural exchange program you had Maya Angelou fighting against

Aya Fubara Eneli (12:40.187)
Nina Simone

Adesoji Iginla (13:05.457)
imperialism, you had Maria Makeba also bringing the fight of the South Africa to the UN, subsequently getting blackballed, and then you had Miss Blue-in. So the question is, if you look throughout that movie, would you say that was an accurate representation of the women voices in Africa?

Milton Allimadi (13:29.338)
Brother, I think you're tripping yourself by keep going to the accurate thing. If you talk about the accuracy, then we won't even have a discussion, right? We know that we already failed on that task, you know?

Adesoji Iginla (13:39.293)
Okay. Okay. Would you say that? Okay, so would you say, would you say we got a fair, a fair look into the women perspective as far as the women were?

Milton Allimadi (13:58.786)
No, we did not. But I'm glad that we got a sprinkling of the possibilities. In fact, I myself was not aware of any human being called blue in until I read White Mollusk just a few years ago. Susan Joy, right?

Adesoji Iginla (14:21.779)
No, you don't.

Adesoji Iginla (14:28.309)
Dr. Williams.

Milton Allimadi (14:28.73)
I wasn't aware. And I found that very disheartening, actually, and disturbing that a person who plays such a critical role of that nature, you know, who really I find very inspirational, somebody who was willing to risk her life. And I'm only finding out about her yesterday, you see. So in fact, obviously,

Aya Fubara Eneli (14:29.757)
Williams.

Adesoji Iginla (14:52.147)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (14:56.926)
Hmm

Milton Allimadi (14:58.148)
there's opportunities for documentaries that center on women like that. And I think at least he highlighted some of the important things she did, like mobilizing, not only women, women and men. Obviously a very engaging speaker, somebody from outside the country having that kind of charisma to attract such huge crowds.

and get imperialism so concerned that they think it's worthwhile killing this woman. Think about it. That's a person of tremendous, tremendous talent. And I hope at some point we see a documentary focusing on that. But at the same time, I would like to hope that we see women like that who are actively engaged in the struggle right now, get more coverage,

Adesoji Iginla (15:28.746)
Correct.

Adesoji Iginla (15:36.595)
Yeah, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (15:55.445)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (15:56.908)
more recognition and more publicity. Where were the blue wings of today in the 21st century? Where are the Maya Angelos of the 21st century? Because certainly the struggle for the Congo is still continuing. We saw that signing of the so-called peace agreement at the White House. The struggle to plan the Congo is just morphed into a different form. Instead of what started with Leopold in 1885, now we have Kagame, quote unquote, African.

playing the same role that Leopold played in 1885.

Adesoji Iginla (16:32.627)
So we...

Aya Fubara Eneli (16:37.132)
To respond to that, I would say, and when you say where the Andre Blue Wings today, I think they're exactly where Andre Blue Wing was back then, obscured. As someone who has lived both in the United States and in Nigeria in particular, even in 2025, it is disheartening to see how

Milton Allimadi (16:49.767)
Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (16:50.005)
Mmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (17:05.788)
women are still very much marginalized by men in the political arena, in all arenas, but let's talk about politics, but also how women are marginalized by other women in those same arenas. We just had a situation in Nigeria, a sitting female senator accused another senator of sexually harassing.

Milton Allimadi (17:12.117)
Thank

Milton Allimadi (17:20.68)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (17:28.757)
assault. Yeah, sexual harassment.

Aya Fubara Eneli (17:30.28)
as, really? And the kind of vitriol that she was subjected to is enough to cause someone, quite frankly, to commit suicide because it came from every side. And so the Andre Blueings are still there. They're still vocal. They're still trying to speak. And we do have a system of patriarchy that

Milton Allimadi (17:41.45)
Mm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (17:54.58)
very much silences those women or at least tries to erase their voices. I mean, before Andrew Bluene in Nigeria, for instance, you could have talked about Humiliya Ransomkuti. You could have talked about...

Milton Allimadi (18:09.725)
Yes, of course.

Aya Fubara Eneli (18:12.49)
I didn't learn about Margaret Igbo till I was a grown woman. I should have known about her and the struggles that she endured to get women the right to vote in Nigeria. And so these are just a couple of examples. all across, I think Ethiopia might be the only country.

that really has a balance of women representatives in their parliament. But everywhere else, African, I'm sorry, African men are doing a very effective job of marginalizing, silencing, and erasing women.

Adesoji Iginla (18:38.207)
Senegal and also Senegal.

Milton Allimadi (18:56.017)
and a very effective job in destroying the continent too, I might add.

Adesoji Iginla (19:00.341)
you

Aya Fubara Eneli (19:00.492)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (19:03.399)
Okay, without, okay, so still on the, no, no, no, no, no, no, this is not, I have detoured from that now, I've detoured from that. Okay, so would you say, would you say, looking at that film, the CIA did an effective job of marginalizing the,

Aya Fubara Eneli (19:06.91)
No more no more accurate questions. It ain't accurate.

Adesoji Iginla (19:32.895)
post-independence leaders, just looking at what they did with.

Milton Allimadi (19:35.603)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (19:40.178)
Absolutely, of course, the CIA was only one of the many organs that they use to completely undermine. And you know, that was a very critical year. And it's amazing to consider that had things played out a bit different where Africa would be today. You know, because think about it. They had the template, they had the vision. Krumah was talking United States of Africa. And eventually he might have persuaded enough of them to realize that, know what?

Adesoji Iginla (19:40.735)
LUMOBA

Adesoji Iginla (19:51.701)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (20:00.488)
until 60.

Milton Allimadi (20:09.637)
He's right. So let's say between 1960, 1965, five years, you know, I think he would have been persuasive enough and what was transpiring around the world would have convinced others who was a bit hesitant, you know, those great minds to come together. And Africa would be very different today as our united, you know, one country, because look, I keep using this statistics.

Adesoji Iginla (20:10.783)
This is necessary. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (20:36.593)
In 1960, the per capita income of China was 90 US dollars per head. Ghana was more than 180. Think about that, double that of China. Today, China is our superpower because China has a huge population, huge market, all one country. So China can't be slapped around by imperialism. That's why China is now industrialized. Africa could have been able to do the same thing.

Adesoji Iginla (21:01.776)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (21:06.609)
So the CIA, but not only the CIA, the total weight of the US government in terms of, you know, using the United Nations, because it wasn't only the CIA, the United Nations, so-called peacekeepers were used as mercenaries.

Aya Fubara Eneli (21:19.436)
out.

Adesoji Iginla (21:22.41)
Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (21:24.172)
I'm so glad you brought up that point because that's point I was going to make is it wasn't just the CIA. It was the United Nations and it was all the other countries that kept quiet in light of what was going on. And my lens, my take on the documentary is that

Adesoji Iginla (21:29.973)
You

Milton Allimadi (21:33.489)
Mm-hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (21:49.504)
there was, and perhaps it just the way I looked at it, I did not feel as much of a condemnation for the United Nations or the CIA. It was kind of presented just matter of fact they did this. If you remember the one interview with the white woman who was like, yeah, we might have planted a story or suggested so and so and got the African leaders to start fighting against each other. And it was just kind of like, not a big deal. I think there was more emphasis on how.

Milton Allimadi (22:02.798)
Right.

Adesoji Iginla (22:10.328)
the that's the MI6.

Milton Allimadi (22:16.57)
What?

Aya Fubara Eneli (22:19.612)
Some African leaders, particularly obviously in the Congo, betrayed our own liberation. Of course, that is a very sore spot for me because today we continue to see African leaders who are so myopic, who are so short-sighted. They are looking at what they can get in the...

Adesoji Iginla (22:27.283)
Hmm. Speaking of.

Aya Fubara Eneli (22:42.752)
here and now and not looking at or not caring about the long-term impact of the choices they're making in in cutting deals and getting into bed with these people, but you're right in terms of Killing Lumumba wasn't just about a Congo. It wasn't just about getting of a visionary leader It was the brutality with which it was done

Milton Allimadi (23:10.981)
Mm-mm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (23:11.156)
And then it was when involved a message, if you will, telegraphed to all other leaders in Africa and beyond. If you cross us, this is the fate awaiting you. Well, it's the chilling effect on everybody else who would have dared to stand up because if they could be that precise in Congo, the flu, Mumba, with quote unquote the world watching what, what.

Milton Allimadi (23:17.369)
once.

Adesoji Iginla (23:25.717)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (23:30.069)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (23:34.655)
reason.

Aya Fubara Eneli (23:40.0)
What chance do you stand?

Milton Allimadi (23:42.175)
Right. Yeah, after that's an important point, the world watching, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (23:44.533)
Comrade often makes the point that what we have in Africa is nothing but flag independence. There was a part in the movie where the Belgian general came out and said, nothing has changed with regards to the status of the Belgian army in the Congo. And the white officers will continue to run the show. In itself,

Was that a larger message to say, even though you have a flag, we still run the show to African countries? I think the sister has, she'll come back on.

Aya Fubara Eneli (24:25.74)
Maybe it was on his end.

Milton Allimadi (24:28.097)
Well, it wasn't just, I think the connection dropped. I don't see the sister. Did her connection drop? Okay. All right, so it wasn't just for 1960, unfortunately, because that's the reality even today in 2025, you know? And that's why you see how imperialism is trying to rally against

Adesoji Iginla (24:36.273)
Mm hmm. Yes, you will come back on. She'll come back.

Adesoji Iginla (24:46.207)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (24:58.335)
Ibrahim Traurig in Burkina Faso because he's challenging the establishment. He's saying, you know, we can actually exercise real power by taking control of our resources. You cannot say you're independent if you don't control your resources because ultimately independence was not, the aspiration was not to just replace European leaders.

Adesoji Iginla (25:00.787)
More, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (25:25.825)
with African, black Africans as leaders. Unfortunately, in many cases, that's what transpired and materialized. They got rid of the white folks and then they said, now we're independent. We have a black president with everything the same. It reminds me of what Steve Biko said. And I keep promoting that interview. It's on YouTube. Anybody can just look it up. Just put Steve Biko interview.

on YouTube, it's about 27 minutes. And he said something that applies to every African country. He said, if ending apartheid means just replacing the white leaders with Africans, tomorrow would be as if the same as yesterday. Nothing would have changed. What they'll do is they'll allow a few of the Africans to enter the realm of the black bourgeoisie.

Aya Fubara Eneli (26:00.236)
keep getting closed out. What the heck is going on? Is it the internet? Lord.

Milton Allimadi (26:23.7)
They'll become very wealthy, but the majority will remain the same. Unless you take control of the economy, the land, and the production, nothing will change. Look where South Africa is today. He said that in 1977, shortly before was killed, he was Prussian. Everything he said must materialize. But everything that he's predicted for South Africa is also what has happened for the rest of the African continent.

Adesoji Iginla (26:24.979)
Hmm

Aya Fubara Eneli (26:33.857)
Hmm?

Aya Fubara Eneli (26:38.112)
I keep getting kicked out of my life.

Adesoji Iginla (26:54.097)
One thing that documentary also did was highlight again.

Milton Allimadi (26:55.593)
And I think the sister dropped off. When you asked the question, I think her connection had dropped off. So perhaps she wants to address that same question. I don't even know if she heard the question. I think her connection dropped. She's back on.

Adesoji Iginla (27:08.575)
She's still off. Is she?

Milton Allimadi (27:13.967)
she dropped off again. She came back and then, okay.

Adesoji Iginla (27:17.009)
Yes, yeah. So again, the documentary also highlighted the role that subterfuge plays in, I mean, subterfuge by Africans plays with regards to the role to get in imperialism, to turn into neocolonialism. Specifically, I'm mentioning the role played by Tishonbe.

in the movie when he came off the plane and they immediately put as a caption that, you know, Minaya, the company that nationalized that privatized that separated Katanga from Congo three days before independence had made him the president of the Katanga Republic. You begin to understand that

Aya Fubara Eneli (28:10.435)
Okay, it keeps kicking me out. I don't know what else to do.

Adesoji Iginla (28:17.905)
Is this the role for other Africans? Because he seemed very chuffed at the idea that…

Milton Allimadi (28:20.819)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (28:26.549)
It seemed very chuffed with the idea that he was being made the president of a company, as somebody said in the movie that he wasn't Katanga that became independent, but it was Union Mine that became an independent. Maybe that's the first corporate country in Africa that we could see. What's your take on that?

Aya Fubara Eneli (28:40.515)
me try it on my phone instead.

Milton Allimadi (28:49.865)
Well, I think it was the most explicit expose of what the Western view really is when it comes to Africa. That was 1960, right? But that was the Western view of Africa even before 1885, right? When Africa was seen as the hunting ground for human beings to enslave them and take them into the so-called New World.

Adesoji Iginla (29:11.966)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (29:19.685)
Africa has always been commodified by the West. And then 1885, they had their shareholders meeting in Berlin, right? They divided the corporations. They said, this is your company. Uganda is your company, Britain. Kenya is your company. Nigeria is your company. Ghana is your company.

Adesoji Iginla (29:20.085)
the world here.

Adesoji Iginla (29:25.993)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (29:32.659)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Milton Allimadi (29:50.296)
Belgium, know, Kong was your company. There's always been a corporate attitude. This is the first time that the Belgians did it explicitly and said, you know, we're going to make you president. who, which Africa would have refused to be made a president. And of course, breaking away of Katanga.

Adesoji Iginla (29:51.667)
and whom belongs to one person.

Milton Allimadi (30:17.331)
just exacerbated the crisis and the rest is history, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (30:22.995)
Hmm. And here was she still, our tip is, our video is still buffering. Yeah, our video is still buffering. So I think she's back on.

Milton Allimadi (30:23.905)
I think this just goes back on.

Milton Allimadi (30:29.343)
I see her name.

Milton Allimadi (30:34.21)
that's too bad. there we go.

Adesoji Iginla (30:44.405)
Can you hear us?

Adesoji Iginla (30:48.564)
You're mute.

Milton Allimadi (30:52.739)
I think you're on mute, sister.

Milton Allimadi (31:01.089)
We can't hear your sound.

Adesoji Iginla (31:05.119)
So while she is.

Milton Allimadi (31:09.099)
Yeah, it's too bad. She's having connectivity problem, I think.

Adesoji Iginla (31:13.811)
Yeah, yeah. So.

Milton Allimadi (31:16.309)
Yeah, she doesn't realize that we can't hear her. Maybe you should text her.

Adesoji Iginla (31:25.021)
I've signaled that we can't hear. So following the installation of Mobutu as the caretaker for Congo, because effectively that was what he was, would you say that was the debt of democracy in itself? Because here was somebody that was handpicked, you know,

Milton Allimadi (31:27.096)
Okay.

Right.

Adesoji Iginla (31:55.345)
and the machinations in order to get him to become the head of state. You saw in the movie, I don't want to give it away, but there was something done by the CIA that effectively made him turn against Lumumba. But turn he did. And the moment he turned, he handed over Lumumba to Tushombe. Tushombe was signed his execution letter.

And I bring him up to say, here is a man who basically allowed the unfettered exploitation of Congo. And yet for some reason he was allowed to stay in power for over three decades. And yet this same West will come and preach democracy and accountability to us. And yet somehow we listened.

Milton Allimadi (32:41.654)
Right.

Adesoji Iginla (32:52.618)
What happened?

Milton Allimadi (32:55.081)
Okay, well first some preliminary points. don't even know

wouldn't say it was the end of democracy because I I have issues with that term, first of all. I think we need to define it properly in African, in African setting or in any setting. You know, the hypocrisy of we talk about democracy, even here in the West, when we know it's a question of the oligarchs, know, who has wealth are the ones who are generally elected.

Although I like what we're seeing transpire in New York City right now, when you have Ugandan-born Zoran Mabdani, of course of historical Asian ancestry, given the history of Uganda, Ugandan-born, changing the script, you know, in the primary elections for the Democratic candidate to be mayor in the general election, which is in November.

Adesoji Iginla (33:39.54)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (34:01.673)
he has defeated a major candidate, former governor Andrew Cuomo, who may have outspent him by $30 million. This to me is the example of the possibilities of democracy, where you can actually appeal directly to voters and bypass the power of money. So in that sense, yes, I agree with you.

possibilities for that type of direct democratic appeal to the electorate was undermined and eliminated, not only in Congo, but throughout Africa, because they use that same template to select a Mobutu for each and every African country and sustain him in power for as long as he's useful to their interest. So yes, Mobutu.

Adesoji Iginla (34:59.591)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (35:00.223)
People talk about 1965 when he became the former leader, but he was the effective power from 1960, really, you know, as the commander of the army when they removed Lumumba. So it was 37 years until 1997 when it was ultimately overthrown. And of course they would keep him in power because he serves their interests. He allows them to plan the resources. He allows them to stage

Adesoji Iginla (35:09.077)
True, Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (35:26.805)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (35:29.991)
military action from the territory of his country against African liberation armies. He was one of the reactionary African leaders who was actually fighting against other Africans who were fighting to free their country from colonial rule. yeah, and then of course, look at the contemporary

Adesoji Iginla (35:49.831)
Up in apartheid.

Adesoji Iginla (35:58.143)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (35:59.547)
Example we have today we have in Uganda general Mousavi He has been there since 1986 serving the interest of imperialism, you know and Mobutu by the way wasn't that he had a betrayal of Lomoba he was actually recruited by the CIA 1959 when he had gone to Belgium to study journalism, so he was

It was just a question of when are we going to unleash Mabutu. He was never, you know, for Congo. He was only pretending, biding time until when his bosses told him, okay, now we are going to spring you loose, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (36:46.067)
Hmm.

So we've talked about the external agencies. Can we now talk about the role played by the likes of events would put Gammaeo NASA center stage? I'm talking about the Suez Canal. The independence of Ghana would bring Kwame Nkrumah into the picture.

The no vote in Guinea would also bring a circuitry into the picture. In a way, if you look at those three events, would you say that was the fear that the West had with regards to what was possible if they let Africans get up to their own devices?

Milton Allimadi (37:39.3)
Definitely. I think.

Milton Allimadi (37:45.346)
What they feared most was the United States of Africa. What they feared most was Krumah. If you look at, if you go to the archives of the US State Department, you'll find from the earliest stages, communications about trying to isolate Krumah from other West African leaders because they consider him to be, you know,

you know, radical anti-West, just because it was pro-Africa. So automatically, you're pro-Africa, it translates to anti-West. This is amazing. But so you've mentioned these names, Secou-ture, Abdel Nasser, in Egypt, I mean, Krumah. But at the end, sadly, they all failed.

Adesoji Iginla (38:16.981)
reaction.

Adesoji Iginla (38:27.699)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (38:36.01)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (38:44.76)
You know, they tried, but they failed. By not succeeding in securing Lumumba's government, they failed not only Congo, but the African continent tremendously because of what happened subsequently, of course. And I go back to what Franz Fanon wrote.

Milton Allimadi (39:15.258)
Wow.

And forget now in which one of his books. I'm not sure whether it's towards dying colonialism or whether...

I forget, unfortunately, it might be in that book, writing writings about...

Adesoji Iginla (39:32.565)
If you say the quotes, if you say the quotes, Amal. Go on.

Milton Allimadi (39:36.935)
Well, he writes about the mistake that African leaders made to contribute soldiers to the UN peacekeeping force, which then subjected them to be under the command of the UN structure. He said, yes, they should have intervened, but they should have sent their troops directly from one African

Adesoji Iginla (39:51.253)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (40:06.492)
country to another African country. He said Congo had that authority. Congo did not need the umbrella of the United Nations. So he also blamed actually Lumumba for that. And of course, you know, it sounds very harsh because Lumumba was overthrown and killed in such a brutal way. But you know, Fanon speaks, you know, directly. And he said, you know, unfortunately he also had to blame.

Adesoji Iginla (40:17.461)
And then. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (40:35.362)
He said, Patrice Lumumba should have invited, for example, Ghana to send Ghanaian soldiers to help Congo, not Ghanaian soldiers under the supervision of the UN, because then the UN appointed general would be the commander in chief of all of those countries. Tanzania should have sent troops directly. Egypt.

Adesoji Iginla (40:50.601)
the UN. Yes.

Milton Allimadi (41:03.268)
sent troops directly and said, are here to help a brother African leader. And they would have taken direct, so Ghanaian soldiers would have taken command from Nkrumah and Nkrumah's appointed commander in chief. Same thing with Egypt, same thing with Tanzania. And definitely they would not have gone in arrested, you know Lumumba, who allowed him to be killed, you see.

Adesoji Iginla (41:22.772)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (41:33.5)
So he said that was a profound mistake. Yeah. here we go. I think sister's back.

Adesoji Iginla (41:41.031)
I his sister is back.

Milton Allimadi (41:46.354)
So let's let her respond to whatever she heard.

Adesoji Iginla (41:46.697)
Can you hear us?

Adesoji Iginla (41:53.631)
before she left. Can you hear us?

still no volume

Milton Allimadi (42:02.928)
Why is the volume not?

Aya Fubara Eneli (42:07.232)
Can you hear me? Yeah, I said maybe the CIA didn't want me to talk.

Adesoji Iginla (42:07.913)
I think it's the, yeah, we can hear you now. We can hear you now.

Milton Allimadi (42:09.519)
now we can have fun. Sorry about that.

Adesoji Iginla (42:15.357)
yeah i think it's the title the title is triggering the title

Aya Fubara Eneli (42:18.11)
you

No, what question do you have? Because I was trying to troubleshoot.

Adesoji Iginla (42:22.047)
You

Adesoji Iginla (42:25.383)
OK, so the question was, the rise of Mobutu, did it give us an idea of what they meant when they were talking about democracy in Africa? Because clearly, it wasn't working for the benefit of the Congolese, but rather for the benefit of the West. And subsequently, we saw how the overthrow of Ghana, of Nkrumah in Ghana, Seketure, Maldipu Keita, and subsequent other leaders across

the African continent where each one of them like Mobutu probably they will still be around today? That was a question.

Aya Fubara Eneli (43:04.032)
So I'm sure that comrade Milton has already thoroughly addressed this issue.

Aya Fubara Eneli (43:18.014)
Something curious that I have noticed in some of the African countries with our politics, and where people are clamoring, running for presidency, is how they have to come to the West, the UK in particular, also the United States, to pander to and talk to certain elements, as if to say, hey, I'm not gonna be a problem for you.

and they have to get their blessing first. And then that clears the way for a lot of the other things that they will go back and do on the continent.

And so without a doubt, I mean, even now you look at what's happening in Iran, and this is not a commentary on whether I agree with the regime in place or not, but it's the idea that we get to pick. And when I say we, the United States, the Western imperialists, they get to pick who they want in these positions to do the job that they want them to do, which is never about our liberation.

and of course, I have been writing about this, this idea that I would say we are responsible for, which is that others are there to serve us when you are a leader or a king or a queen or president or senator or whatever, as opposed to I am a leader.

Milton Allimadi (44:33.517)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (44:33.621)
Mmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (44:52.906)
that is supposed to serve my people and to make conditions better for my people. And it's almost an expectation, your son has become a senator, great, let us all eat. And the question is, eat what and who are you depriving while you are gorging yourselves? And so, and you tie it back to the education system.

Milton Allimadi (45:04.909)
Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (45:17.042)
We are not, we never adequately addressed the imperialist education system that had been implemented in Africa.

And it continues to just produce the next generation and the next generation that feel we get in and we enrich ourselves and to hell with the people, which by the way is not unique to Africa. So no one should hear that because that's exactly what they do here in United States. You come into Congress with two pennies, within your first term, you're a millionaire. No one asks how that happened exactly.

Meanwhile, the poorer getting poorer, services are being cut for the people who need it the most.

And so that's the way it is. So I hope that answers your question. So things have been set up, yes, the likes of Mobutu, Tinubu, all across the continent. And if you become problematic, we get rid of you, even as we saw with Gaddafi. Whatever your politics is, whether you agreed with everything, you're never going to agree with 100 % of what any leader does. But the minute an African leader becomes problematic for the West, they find a way to get rid of them.

Milton Allimadi (46:14.668)
Right.

Milton Allimadi (46:31.778)
Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (46:32.277)
Okay, so which brings me to this. Information is key. When we watched the documentary, there was a part where it was said that Tsuchombe in Katanga got the most powerful antenna in Africa. But there was also some clips where the media were posing questions to each other. And there was one that was very funny. The one where there was a reporter in the street in Syria.

that asking everybody, are you a capitalist? Are you a capitalist? And everybody stood there hands a Kimbo, oh, I'm a capitalist. Are you a socialist? No, no, no, no, I'm a capitalist. What role did the media play in that period that come to shape our thinking of what is the East West divide and the non-aligned countries, what they meant and just general psyche of people at that point in time.

What role do you understand that the media play watching that documentary?

Milton Allimadi (47:39.569)
Well, the media is actually in many respects in situations like that much more powerful than even the guns and bombs, you because the propaganda determines ultimately than what is done. So, Lumumba was demonized falsely as a communist.

Adesoji Iginla (48:01.737)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (48:06.909)
He did not have any way to respond to that because he doesn't control the kind of global media that was concerted against him. So once he was demonized as a communist, he was fair game to be killed and eliminated. But I'm glad you asked that question because the major point I would like to make is that today, that total dominance of media control

Adesoji Iginla (48:24.745)
Yeah,

Milton Allimadi (48:35.497)
has now been diminished because of social media. So it's because of social media, we can now mobilize and organize and get Africans to rally around certain issues. We saw the mobilization in Kenya that brought all these young Africans to push back against the government. And the last year out, when they imposed this tax on the people that already taxed to the bone, because the government wants to pay the IMF and World Bank.

the young people mobilized and they were effective in getting the government to rescind that tax. And the media can now become an ally in progressive African struggle for liberation. I think we as the elders should help the young people in terms of shaping the narrative, providing some of the historical context, and then let them do the job of liberation.

some much more hopeful now in the media engagement because of social media. In the 1960s, they had no chance.

Adesoji Iginla (49:36.265)
Hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (49:48.232)
So.

Adesoji Iginla (49:48.255)
Sister?

Aya Fubara Eneli (49:51.733)
I believe that there's research that has been done that says here in the United States that 94 % of all media outlets, not including social media, is controlled by like six people. But now if you add in social media, we can put this content out there, but somebody else determines the algorithms of who gets to see this.

when they feel like we've violated some rules or whatever to get taken down, we see what happened to African Stream. They were doing an incredibly effective job of getting news out about Africa. We know it was effective because if it hadn't been a threat, they would not have been targeted by Secretary Blinken. And literally like by a snap of a finger,

Adesoji Iginla (50:34.101)
country.

Aya Fubara Eneli (50:46.442)
Facebook shuts them down, YouTube shuts them down, Twitter shuts them down, TikTok shuts It's like literally like one person sat down and sent out a group text to three or four of their best friends and said, get these people off the, get them off the internet. And boom, it just happened. And they struggled and tried to stay up and look for other ways to still get the very important work they were doing out. And they finally had to close down.

Milton Allimadi (50:58.541)
Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (51:16.328)
And so I am grateful to the extent that at least we can have this conversation right now. I think we're only still here because we're not a big enough threat yet. And the minute that we become a big enough threat, then there will be means to shut us down. And so the lesson for me is, I believe it was Audrey Lohr that says the master's tools cannot destroy the master's house.

Adesoji Iginla (51:28.181)
you

Aya Fubara Eneli (51:43.72)
We've got to figure out how with all of the brains that we have, how are we creating our own platforms to get information out? And then beyond that, because we saw what Elon Musk was able to do with Starlink and a war between Russia and Ukraine. So if we also give the power for even the satellites on our lands, and I'm talking about Africa in particular,

Adesoji Iginla (52:04.437)
Mm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (52:11.71)
to these imperialists, again, we give them the tools to, they control all the tools to be able to silence us. And so we have a lot of work to do in terms of how we counteract a media that is doing what it was designed to do, which is to serve its masters. And that is not us. And they did use the media effectively. I mean, in the documentary, one of the first things they did was,

Adesoji Iginla (52:34.325)
Mm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (52:41.226)
take control of the radio waves so that Lumumba could not get his message out.

Adesoji Iginla (52:52.607)
Yeah. Also, I'm mindful that the good comrade will want to live on top of the hour. So a quick question to you before you do. Does this highlight the thesis of another great historian by way of Guyana, Dr. Walter Rodney, when he said how Europe underdeveloped Africa, who could get a sense

Milton Allimadi (53:03.577)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (53:22.023)
of how that played out watching that documentary.

Milton Allimadi (53:28.137)
Okay, I'm not sure I understand the question.

Adesoji Iginla (53:34.631)
Okay, so I'm I'm saying Walter Rodney wrote the book, How Europe Underdeveloped Africa. Watching that documentary, do you get a sense that people can glean from that documentary that this is what he's trying to say?

Milton Allimadi (53:37.59)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (54:00.917)
The reason I'm saying that is this. If you notice, Union Mine seized control of the mines. What was coming out of the mines? Uranium. Copper was also available in Katanga. Those copper formed the nucleus of the bullets that goes into the weapons that are used

that was used in Vietnam and that was subsequently used all around the continent. And the reason I pose this is that copper could have been turned into tractors or something else instead of, but we never got advantage to use said implements in our own development. So when I'm looking at that book, education, we were robbed of it.

we couldn't use our own resources, our leaders were stifled, culture we couldn't promote. In a way, that puts that book in a proper perspective that this is what this gentleman was trying to say with regards to what has happened. I mean, obviously he pulled in, he's frozen. Can you hear me?

Aya Fubara Eneli (55:21.664)
can hear you.

Adesoji Iginla (55:23.667)
Okay, so the point I was trying to make is how Europe underdeveloped Africa, if you watch that documentary, you can effectively say, maybe Walter Rodney had a point. Just looking at this. Yeah, go on.

Aya Fubara Eneli (55:36.688)
he had a point. Definitely, there's no question about it. How Europe underdeveloped Africa, how Europe continues to, how it continues to underdevelop us today. And the blueprint that they've used, imperialists have used to underdevelop every group of people. And so for me, again, the question is,

Adesoji Iginla (55:47.285)
and developed Africa.

Adesoji Iginla (56:03.018)
Mm-hmm.

Aya Fubara Eneli (56:05.948)
What are we going to do about it? How do we study this blueprint so that when it's being implemented, like playing chess, you can anticipate what your opponent is about to do because you've seen it before. You understand how they play and you have effectively strategized to counteract that. And that's the issue.

Adesoji Iginla (56:12.5)
No

Aya Fubara Eneli (56:31.924)
Because when you just talked about the propaganda against Lumumba, guess who is facing that kind of propaganda right now? I mean, there's so many. I mean, the propaganda against Gaza, against the Palestinians. We can talk about the propaganda against Saddam Hussein that led to a war where they destroyed artifacts and destroyed the lives of people and then later come and say, well, it was all a lie. But the destruction is there nonetheless. The propaganda right now,

Adesoji Iginla (56:42.175)
Sorry.

Yep, yep, yep.

Aya Fubara Eneli (57:00.722)
against a potential mayor of New York. I opened up social media today and it was a torrent. I'm talking a tsunami of negativity. He's a communist. He's a this. He's a, it was, I'm like, whoa, how much money did they just pour into this? And I don't even live in New York or anywhere near there. And I'm telling you, flooded my timeline.

Adesoji Iginla (57:05.788)
Zoran Mandani.

Adesoji Iginla (57:14.164)
Yep.

Aya Fubara Eneli (57:29.704)
And so the propaganda continues, the blueprint is there. We see it over and over again. Madame Marable wrote something similar about how the US has underdeveloped Black America.

We know there's a blueprint. How many of us are studying it? Where are our think tanks to come up with how to effectively counteract it? Because it's the same tactic. It's the same divide and conquer and use every tool to sow dissension and then have the people at each other.

so that they cannot unify to fight what is the common enemy. And so the people are thinking it's my leader that is the issue. Well, no, your leader is a puppet for a government somewhere else. yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (58:14.322)
god.

Adesoji Iginla (58:17.781)
Okay, so we've mentioned a host of people with regards to, I'm trying to get the link to the comrade he wants. Let me see if I can grab it from here.

Aya Fubara Eneli (58:33.982)
Yeah, it's the topic today because the CIA does no want us having this conversation.

Adesoji Iginla (58:39.579)
Yeah, yeah, I think it's the topic. I think it's the topic. I think it's the topic. I think it's the topic. The topic, mean, you mentioned, I've said to...

Aya Fubara Eneli (58:50.366)
Yes. No, no, listen. June said too much truth being spoken. My phone, fire stick and Roku are buffering. It's, crazy. Someone else says buffering still going on. No image or sound.

Adesoji Iginla (58:59.541)
You

Adesoji Iginla (59:05.716)
Wow.

Aya Fubara Eneli (59:06.932)
Yeah. So I don't even know if this is getting out to the people. Like literally we might be talking to ourselves. Okay. Yeah. Cause someone says, I'll, I guess I'll wait for the recording.

Adesoji Iginla (59:11.529)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (59:16.245)
It's triggering.

It's triggering. Speaking of, I mean, I've sent the link to Brother Milton. I mean, we, wow. I think he's coming back in. So we know what not to use in the link next time in the title.

Milton Allimadi (59:35.091)
Yes.

Aya Fubara Eneli (59:46.247)
No, they're shutting this thing down.

Milton Allimadi (59:46.46)
Yes. Am I back?

Adesoji Iginla (59:50.397)
Are you okay?

Milton Allimadi (59:50.398)
Am I back? Okay, so my phone just shut off and it said the phone is overheated. Can you hear me?

Adesoji Iginla (59:56.383)
Can you hear us?

it's his boyfriend.

Milton Allimadi (01:00:03.858)
Can you hear me?

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:07.765)
We can hear you. Can you hear us?

Milton Allimadi (01:00:09.651)
Can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you. Can you hear me?

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:13.981)
And we type.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:19.923)
Hahaha

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:00:20.832)
So I just pulled it up on YouTube. It's black.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:26.014)
Is it coming up?

Whoa.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:00:35.222)
This is, this, hold on, hold on, I need to.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:00:45.332)
This is the screen.

Milton Allimadi (01:00:45.426)
Commit.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:48.809)
Really?

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:00:49.685)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:51.987)
Nothing.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:00:53.395)
It's black.

Milton Allimadi (01:00:53.655)
I can hear you, can you hear me?

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:57.055)
Can he? I can see.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:00:58.602)
This is the screen.

And so people in the chat said.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:04.095)
Okay.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:01:16.36)
Yeah, they were asking at a surgery speaks the truth. Are you there? I've tried shutting down my phone. I agree too much truth i'll just watch it again. Hopefully the recording is okay. Is anyone able to view the program? No, yeah, it's not showing on youtube. The screen is black

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:34.59)
Wow.

Okay, let's just carry on then. I'm sure they will capture it.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:49.814)
He

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:01:49.878)
In real time. How to control. Didn't you just ask the question about controlling the media?

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:53.745)
In real time, in real time, in real time.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Just that. What should be spoken? Thanks, guess I'll wait for the recording. Wow. Okay. Okay. So while people are waiting for the recording, so we might actually can see what the Milton is posting, what's Milton saying.

Will Milton here with us?

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:28.693)
Okay. Can you hear us? It's hot here as well, so.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:02:35.315)
you

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:46.261)
It's not ideal temperature to be doing this, but we will carry on. So I'm sure Brother Milton wanted to live on top of the hour.

Milton Allimadi (01:03:01.389)
Can you hear me?

Can you hear me?

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:06.505)
can see.

Milton Allimadi (01:03:08.704)
Can you hear me?

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:10.325)
Studio chat. no, we cannot.

Milton Allimadi (01:03:15.804)
Wow. All right.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:21.757)
You

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:34.037)
Okay, I think he's still there or not. Okay, we cannot. So I'm just gonna share some resources for people to take on. And so we are talking about the lady, Andrea Bullin, that's her book.

My Country Africa, Andre Bullin. Lumumba. This is on Lumumba, Leo Zelig. So it's Leo Zelig, if you want to read about, focused on Lumumba. The story of the story of Congo from Leopold on

1908?

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:04:29.598)
some powerful books that you're sharing.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:30.089)
The Assassination of Patrice Lumumba, book by Ludo de Wit.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:40.341)
This is, yeah, it's quite a film. It's a story from when King Leopold took over until Congo was taken away from him. So it's titled Congo, the epic story, history of a people.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:04.725)
This book was also referenced in the documentary.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:05:06.132)
second that the book that you just referenced

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:11.135)
Which one? Yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:05:11.463)
The book that you just referenced, Congo, does it start with Leopold or does it start with who the people were before Leopold?

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:21.767)
It started with the people who the people were before Leopold. Leopold then handing over up till this went as far as 1960. So you get a sense of transition.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:05:32.438)
I gotta get that one.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:37.191)
Okay, so this is.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:47.445)
Okay, so this is, this was referenced, the guy who was talking in the documentary that said his mother married a Belgian soldier, Jane Buffan.

Talk about the plunder of Congo and the resistance. Again, that's another one. Yeah, Congo has a lot of stuff. Let me see. that's it. So when Katanga was broken up. Yeah, so this is blood diamonds, white mercenaries, CIA sponsored African dictatorship. This is the story of Katanga.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:06:15.478)
How many more?

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:06:26.518)
Tatanga!

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:38.069)
So it's a quick read.

Dag Hammarskjöld, the Secretary General of the, what's he called, of the UN at the time. Yeah, he died in an air crash, aircraft crash in Eastern Congo in dollar 19 September, same month as Lumumba, same year as Lumumba, but not the same. So he died in a plane crash.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:06:53.95)
You win?

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:16.179)
And so, Susan Williams wrote who killed Dal Khamis. The UN, the Cold War, and the white supremacy in Africa.

When we talk about resistance, this is written by Kwame Nkrumah, the challenge of Congo. So his speech that he delivered in the UN, where you saw him standing at the dais, is in here. The story of how Lumumba got into his pickle, every other thing, the advice he gave him, everything is in here. And then if you don't want any of that, yeah, and you think that's too much,

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:07:54.742)
White malice, Susan Williams.

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:54.869)
You could go to the source.

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:59.537)
Yeah, the CIA. This is from the CIA archives about what transpired in Africa during that time. So, but of all of them, I would say for starters, get this book.

Adesoji Iginla (01:08:17.289)
Get this one. If you want to get anything on Congo, get this book. Why? This gentleman here, what's his name? Intalaja? He was pivoted to the writing of all of those books that you see. He was consulted on all of those books. So this particular one, the Congo, from Leopold to Kabila. And yeah.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:08:42.23)
And of course, and of course I would encourage people to actually read the speeches of Lumumba himself. Don't just have it be an interpretation of someone else. Read, Andre Blueing's words herself, her life. In fact, maybe you want to tag the episode that we did on her.

Adesoji Iginla (01:08:52.233)
Yes, yes. speaking of which, is actually.

Aya Fubara Eneli (01:09:08.566)
Yeah, the CF.

Adesoji Iginla (01:09:09.823)
See.

Adesoji Iginla (01:09:14.165)
this is hilarious today. You finally got that. OK, so I am going to put all the I'm going to put the list of the books in. I'm to put the list of the books in the description for people who are going to be watching later. And so that way you have a chronicle of you have a list of books.

to help you when it comes to the issue of Congo and understanding how things came to be. It's been one very interesting episode in more ways than one. What I will do is I would have to stop at this particular point in time and ask you to join us next week when we continue regular programming.

Until then, it's a good night and God bless.