EP 10 Blacklisted: Trump’s Travel Ban Targets Africa Again I African News Review 🌍

In this conversation, Adesoji Iginla and Milton Allimadi explore the implications of recent travel bans affecting African nations, the human rights issues surrounding deportation practices, and the broader themes of sovereignty and neocolonialism in Africa. 

It also examines the evolving political landscape surrounding Western Sahara and the intricacies of Kagame's leadership in Rwanda, particularly in relation to regional dynamics and resource exploitation.

Takeaways

*Travel bans disproportionately affect African nations, raising questions about fairness.
*The rationale behind travel bans is often arbitrary and lacks transparency.
*Deportation practices highlight significant human rights concerns.
*Sovereignty in African nations is often undermined by external influences.
*The situation in Western Sahara reflects ongoing colonial legacies.
*Kagame's leadership is increasingly scrutinised due to regional conflicts.
*Rwanda's economic strategies involve controversial resource exploitation.
*Public opinion is shifting regarding international policies towards Africa.
*The need for a united African front against neocolonialism is emphasised.
*The conversation underscores the importance of critical discourse in understanding these issues.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Context of Travel Bans
01:33 Analysis of Trump's Travel Ban
09:45 The Impact of Travel Bans on African Nations
12:36 Deportation Issues and Human Rights Concerns
21:16 Sovereignty and Neocolonialism in Africa
24:36 Morocco's Autonomy Proposal for Western Sahara
33:02 The Schism Between Government and People
34:19 Elections as a Barometer of Public Opinion
35:51 Historical Context of Opposition
36:45 Changing Attitudes Towards Policy
37:29 The Erosion of Institutions
39:02 The Impact of Military Aid
39:43 Political Shockwaves in the U.S.
41:48 Kagame's Gamble in Congo
44:52 Rwanda's International Relations
49:25 Congo's Resources vs. Rwanda's Military
53:00 Conclusion and Future Implications

Transcript

Adesoji Iginla (00:03.152)
Yes, greetings, greetings, greetings, and welcome again to African News Review. It's been a while. And yes, we lost an ancestor last week, which we duly celebrated. And if you didn't see that, you can still catch that on the channel, Adesogui Speaks. But without further ado, let's go to today's episode. Again, like I said, my name is Adesogui Iginla.

And with me as usual is my comrade in arms, the one and only author of Manufacturing Hate, How Africa Was Demonized in the Western Media, and the inspiration for this program, comrade Milton Alimayed.

Milton Allimadi (00:38.029)
Thank

Milton Allimadi (00:49.993)
Asante. Thank you as always, comrade brother.

Adesoji Iginla (00:51.602)
I'll see you soon.

Yes, this week we've gotten a few stories in the press and without further ado, let's go to it. The first story comes from the BBC and it's emanating. Its origin actually emanates from the United States, most surprisingly. And it reads, Chad holds US visa in revenge for Trump travel ban.

There is something about the headline that strikes me as odd considering the fact that we are talking about Trump's travel ban. that's the president of Chad, Mr. Derby, Mamat Idris Derby. But the key part about the article which I want us to discuss is it reads, Africa is the continent most affected in the travel ban announced by US President Donald Trump.

with seven of the 12 countries on the list. The other prohibits peoples from Chad, Congo, Brazil, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Libya, Somalia, and Sudan. And in addition, there are travel restrictions to the nationals of Burundi, Sierra Leone, Togo, Cuba, Laos, Turkmenistan, and Venezuela. They will no longer be able to travel to the United States on certain visas.

and Mr Trump is quoted as saying we will not allow people to enter a country who wish to do us harm. Trump said in a video posted on X. Your initial reaction to the ban itself.

Milton Allimadi (02:31.848)
I don't even know what to say, I mean...

Adesoji Iginla (02:37.042)
But say something. something. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (02:37.841)
No, no, really. I mean, he did it last time. Last time it was purely the so-called Muslim ban, right? During his first term, designated Muslim countries. He campaigned that he would ban some countries when he was elected. So I think that's why he's doing it. But in terms of the rationale specific for each country,

Adesoji Iginla (02:47.762)
Yep

Milton Allimadi (03:07.334)
I don't think there's a set formula because somewhere they're mentioning issues of conflict. Well, what about Rwanda and Uganda? These are countries that have invaded a neighboring country, Congo, right? So if that was the rationale, conflict, why are these countries not on the list if that is the case? But you know, in the biggest sense for us people,

Adesoji Iginla (03:24.465)
Yeah?

Yep.

Okay. So, go on.

Milton Allimadi (03:36.379)
who are Pan-Africans, who don't want to always be reacting toward the United States or these other fading global powers do. If we do what needs to be done and really have a borderless Africa, can you imagine? There's no way could a United States president ban travel from Africa, you see?

Adesoji Iginla (03:49.788)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (04:05.123)
Mm. Mm.

Milton Allimadi (04:05.84)
But you can pick and choose these little tiny countries. In fact, I would not, I don't know who's in charge of compiling the list, right? I would not be shocked if it's revealed that the guy wears a blindfold and there's a big map of Africa and he just tosses some dots, you know? And then they select the seven countries where the dots, you know, target it. Absolutely. You know, there's no rationale behind it.

Adesoji Iginla (04:32.114)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (04:35.942)
There's no compelling reason not to ban countries like Rwanda and Uganda. But of course, now the administration is interested in minerals from the Congo and is negotiating with Rwanda as well. So that's the reason why you would not ban a country like Rwanda from traveling, issue a travel ban on a country like Rwanda. Now you're banning travel from people from Libya.

Adesoji Iginla (04:54.994)
find them on the list.

Milton Allimadi (05:04.088)
Libya was a very peaceful country until 2011. You know, so now they're saying the rationale for Libya is that Libya is becoming a haven for terrorism. Well, who created the Libya that has now becoming a haven of a terrorism if it was not the United States and NATO? So, you know, it's irrational. It doesn't make sense. But of course, it's going to harm many of those individuals.

Adesoji Iginla (05:08.661)
No. What happened?

Adesoji Iginla (05:25.02)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (05:33.445)
who want to try to come to countries like the United States in order to improve their livelihood and support their families back on the continent.

Adesoji Iginla (05:44.882)
There are three countries on there that strikes me as odd on the African list. And I want your thoughts on it. One is Sierra Leone, the other being Togo, and the last being Eritrea. Those three countries strike me as odd of all the, mean, when we talk conflict, when we talk destabilization, when we talk about trouble on the continent.

Okay, maybe with the exception of Eritrea that fought a 30-year war of attrition with Ethiopia to get independence.

Beyond that one, the aforementioned two, Togo and Syria alone, there is just no reason for it.

Milton Allimadi (06:38.197)
I already responded that there's no rationale. I don't know what I can answer there. The guys just close their eyes and toss some dots. know, Togo. I've never even met anybody from Togo in the United States. So what rationale could that be, you know, behind that? And here's the question. And this is what actually convinces me, that they either just roll the dice and whatever the dice landed, or they toss some dots, as I said.

Adesoji Iginla (06:39.504)
I mean, even...

Adesoji Iginla (06:48.967)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (06:53.912)
Exactly!

Milton Allimadi (07:08.692)
If you wanted to use a political rationale, why did you not ban people from Mali, people from Guinea, people like and from Burkina Faso? I mean Niger, not Guinea, Niger, Niger, Mali and Burkina Faso, the alliance of the Sahel states. Why not ban them? Since they're standing up to imperialism, standing up to France, standing up

Adesoji Iginla (07:09.297)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (07:28.006)
You understand? So, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (07:37.899)
to United States. So politically, somebody could understand something like that, say, okay, we understand. They're standing up against the imperialism of these countries. So there is a logic. I'm not saying they deserve it. Of course they don't. But there would be a logic and rationale behind it. People say, aha, we knew it was coming. After all, a few weeks ago, you were threatening the government of Burkina Faso. So we can relate it to some logic.

Adesoji Iginla (07:44.888)
Yes, yes.

Adesoji Iginla (07:52.54)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (08:04.402)
Okay, let's go, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (08:07.485)
Where's the logic? Still early on, where's the logic? So that's why I insist the word randomly selected, randomly or blindly selected. There's no rationale behind it.

Adesoji Iginla (08:19.848)
I'll even add another name to the list, Burundi.

Milton Allimadi (08:24.288)
I've met one person, I've met one person from Burundi, I've met one person from Burundi in this country. And since when have you heard Burundi associated with any negativity toward the United States?

Adesoji Iginla (08:26.394)
You set aside Rwanda and you go and pick on

Adesoji Iginla (08:35.73)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (08:43.866)
hard pressed. It just doesn't make sense.

Milton Allimadi (08:45.254)
I'm not hot press. I'm convinced it was done irrationally without any logic behind it. But why is it surprising? We know the administration is coming from which it's coming after from. mean, the first administration, we can understand the Islamophobia that is very prevalent in certain circles in the United States and in the West.

Adesoji Iginla (09:02.503)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (09:11.314)
Mm-hmm. Correct. Correct.

Milton Allimadi (09:13.863)
So we could understand that it's Islamophobia determining the first travel ban when he was in office. This one, there's no convincing or compelling explanation except that he made a campaign promise that he was going to have a travel ban and now he has a travel ban. But at the same time, it's not completely irrationally done. It's done in a way

not to disrupt where he sees the direct U.S. interest. So, for example, he's having some major beef right now with South Africa. He claims there's a genocide of Africanas in South Africa. So why don't you ban South Africa then?

Adesoji Iginla (09:54.662)
Yeah, correct.

Milton Allimadi (10:02.459)
is either irrationalated down with no logic behind it, or you just say...

Adesoji Iginla (10:04.274)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (10:09.02)
You made an irrational statement by claiming there's an Africana genocide going on in South Africa, but you know it not to be true. If you believe that to be true, would that not be the first country that you'd want to ban people from traveling from the United States?

Adesoji Iginla (10:23.216)
of course to be on the list. Yeah. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (10:30.5)
I I'm not advocating for such. If Nigeria was on there, then maybe some level of rationality can be because of the troubles in the north. You can understand that. But if you refuse to put that country on the list, and then just one final thought, there was something here that struck me as odd as well. And I mean, why would one be surprised? It's here. So the

Understanding is, in a video posted to his Truth Social website, Trump said the recent alleged terror attack in Boulder, Colorado underscores the extreme danger posed by foreign nationals who have not been properly vetted. Now the problem with that is, however, the suspect in that attack is an Egyptian national and Egypt is not on the affected list.

Milton Allimadi (11:25.071)
Yes, because Egypt has a special relationship with the United States since the Camp David peace accord with Israel.

Adesoji Iginla (11:33.724)
Good,

Milton Allimadi (11:38.032)
It's nonsense. There's no rationale behind it. That's my final statement on this issue. It's just nonsensical. He's doing it. He's doing it because he promised voters that once elected, he was going to impose a travel ban.

Adesoji Iginla (11:38.226)
And so.

Adesoji Iginla (11:46.066)
You

Adesoji Iginla (11:54.556)
travel back and it is and did just to fulfill the promise. Okay. I mean.

Milton Allimadi (11:59.013)
Right. mean, who from Togo was involved in that incident that he just mentioned, you know, on the video? Right. And then one final point I would like to actually add on this whole issue.

Adesoji Iginla (12:06.61)
or Burundi.

Milton Allimadi (12:17.328)
the countries.

the leadership in the countries. And obviously they can't because the countries are so weak. But it's becoming, if people are not yet convinced that the United States is not part of that, really. So the whole issue of the travel bond is like, you know, the creator, you know, in heaven has now decided that

these selected countries will not be allowed to enter heaven. You know, that's how it's projected, right? The United States is heaven. So now you Burundi, you're not coming to heaven. You Chad, you're not coming to heaven. And we need to reject that kind of logic as well. Exactly.

Adesoji Iginla (13:12.886)
notion. So still on the issue of travel bans and evictions, this time we go to the guardian for our next story which comes from Djibouti. And the story reads

Groups stranded with ICE in Djibouti shipping container after removal from US. Deputies and officers are ill and face risk after flight to South Sudan was stopped by US court in late May. A group of men removed from the US to Djibouti in East Africa were stranded in a converted shipping container together with the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement ICE officers.

Milton Allimadi (13:53.498)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (14:05.714)
sent to supervise them after a deportation flight to South Sudan. The was stopped by an American court. The eight deportees and 13 ICE staff have begun to feel ill, the US government said. Now this is the interesting bit. Eight men from Latin America, Asia, and South Sudan and the ICE staff had been stuck.

at a US Naval base since late May. Department of Homeland Security, DHS, you know, began to feel ill within 72 hours of landing in Djibouti, continue to trance, suffer from suspected bacterial, you know, incident. Now, this is the issue. So a member of government, Melissa Harper, goes on record to say,

Milton Allimadi (14:52.975)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (14:58.768)
In a court declaration that the detainees are being held in a shipping container that was previously converted, whatever. The ICE are sharing very limited sleeping quarters, Harper said, with only six beds between 13 people. Harper added, upon arrival in Djibouti, officers were warned by US Department of Defense of officials of imminent danger of rocket attacks from terrorist groups in Yemen.

the ice officers lack body armor or other gear that would be appropriate in the case of an attack. So the question is,

Aside from the rhetoric, the hyperbolic rhetoric here.

Why would you take Latin American people to Sudan?

Milton Allimadi (15:46.424)
I mean, you're asking me an impossible question to respond to. I know where they could not take them. Let's put it that way. I know where they could not take them. They could not take them and land them in France. Right? They could not take them and land them in England. Right? They could not take them and land them in German. You see?

Adesoji Iginla (15:52.644)
No,

Adesoji Iginla (16:05.66)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (16:10.386)
Correct.

Milton Allimadi (16:15.349)
You can only do that and then, you know, everything we discuss comes back to the same, same, same point. Tiny, helpless, weak countries.

that have sovereignty on paper alone.

Adesoji Iginla (16:32.754)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (16:37.077)
Right?

Milton Allimadi (16:40.961)
Think about it. What can Djibouti do about it?

You know, is Djibouti going to order the US to take these people back from where you brought them, which is from the United States? If the guy.

the president of United States could ignore a court judge and do that. An American judge, what do think he would say to the president of Djibouti? A judge had told the administration, these guys have a right to challenge their deportation. Whether some or all of them had been convicted of committing crimes,

while in the United States, there's still something called due process, because people have been falsely accused. And I'm not saying that any one of these individuals did not commit a crime, but I'm saying the importance of due process is that it protects innocent people, right? So somebody that is falsely accused, you don't take action against them unless

Adesoji Iginla (17:33.754)
or not.

Adesoji Iginla (17:59.378)
and also make

Milton Allimadi (18:03.24)
they get a chance to demonstrate their innocence through due process. And then it's argued, and then the proceedings are carried out. But here's a guy who does not really, you we talk about the rule of law, who does not believe in law, unless of course it suits his own interests, right? So they know a judge who said they have a right to challenge the deportation.

They load these guys on planes and they're heading not actually to Djibouti, they're heading to South Sudan, another weak African country whose sovereignty and independence remains only on paper. That's where they were headed. But by the time they landed in Djibouti, the judge issued another order that they should stay in place.

Adesoji Iginla (18:42.797)
is

Milton Allimadi (18:59.346)
so that the proceeding can somehow be conducted and give them an opportunity for these individuals to challenge the deportation. I think they were assigned lawyers or somebody got lawyers to represent them. And obviously the lawyer is not in place. The lawyer I think has somehow managed or maybe did not manage to communicate with them electronically.

And that's where the status of these cases, they were not originally meant to go and end up in Djibouti. Djibouti was just like en route to South Sudan. So now they're stuck there. But what to me is very interesting is what you read in terms of the comments from the US official, the Department of Homeland Security, Harper. Right, the description.

Adesoji Iginla (19:53.392)
Melissa Happa.

Milton Allimadi (19:57.507)
of the conditions that she's describing and admitting to. It's really actually, you know, of course, she's describing terrible conditions, but it's good in a journalistic sense. Because this now tells individuals that he, you have a president who's willing to subject even American citizens, ICE operatives, to put them in harm's way.

You see, the article is not emphasizing that, but think about it. know, you have a president sitting there who does not care. Forget about the eight individuals. Just, you know, put them aside for one minute and think. The 13 U.S. employees of the federal government, right, they are there in potential harm. just, you she talked about potential rocket being fired at them.

Adesoji Iginla (20:33.867)
Mmm. Mmm. Come to me. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (20:57.891)
And then you have the health issue. have, what is it? You have what? Eight plus 13? And how many beds were there? Think about it.

Adesoji Iginla (21:06.576)
A plus A. There were five beds, yeah, five beds in between them.

Milton Allimadi (21:10.967)
Just think about that.

Milton Allimadi (21:14.786)
Think about that. I think this story is going to backfire against the administration in very many ways. The most, I think, harmful one to the administration is the fact that you have a US president who talks about, you know, all these ICE people, they're brave, they're risking their lives when they go to deport people, right? When they show up to drag people out of their homes to deport them.

Adesoji Iginla (21:41.65)
Correct.

Milton Allimadi (21:43.565)
You are praising them for their bravery. But now it's been proven that you really do not care. Not for their bravery, not even for their lives, if you're willing to have them without body armor, being a potential target from rockets being launched from people coming from Yemen.

Adesoji Iginla (22:03.506)
Yeah,

Milton Allimadi (22:05.61)
Absolutely. And I'm surprised. This is the Guardian. The Guardian normally would point those issues out. But at least it's good that they reported it and they made that revelation, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (22:20.604)
So could you, mean, where that's,

Milton Allimadi (22:24.256)
I think by the midterm elections, right, he's going to have some serious trouble by the midterm elections. These things are just building up and showing how really awful this president is.

Adesoji Iginla (22:37.412)
On your wall in the course of the week, you posted something from the great Kwame Nkrumah about sovereignty. Could you expand on that in relation to this story, especially in light of the last two stories we've dealt with now, where he talked about the tootlessness of the present framework and the fact that the United States of Africa

which happens to be the working title for your upcoming novel. Could you elaborate more on that?

Milton Allimadi (23:12.938)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (23:17.938)
I mean, I recommend that people go to the original Mr. Borderless Africa himself, our ancestor, Kwame Nkrumah. And you know from the introduction of his famous book, Neocolonialism, The Last Stage of Imperialism, I actually speak of, I have it right in front of me. And I'm sure you have yours nearby too.

Adesoji Iginla (23:25.522)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (23:34.546)
in human realism, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (23:42.372)
You

Adesoji Iginla (23:47.538)
It's actually behind me.

Milton Allimadi (23:49.515)
Here, this explains everything to us African sisters and brothers.

The essence of neocolonialism is that the state which is subject to it is, in theory, independent and has all the outward trappings of international sovereignty. In reality, its economic system and thus its political policies directed from outside. Boom. He could have ended the book just with those two sentences, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (24:23.921)
Wow.

Milton Allimadi (24:27.409)
That is what we see constantly on display. You know, that is on display in Djibouti, that is on display in South Sudan, an allegedly independent country who was told, by the way, we are sending a plane with eight people. How many of them are South Sudanese? One, maybe? Is it one or none? And you are going to house them. We are sending them.

Adesoji Iginla (24:27.666)
You

Milton Allimadi (24:56.594)
Just think about that. I want my sisters and brothers to think about that seriously. When we talk about sovereignty and independence, it's not there, it doesn't exist for these African countries. And we should start telling these leaders, these prime ministers and presidents, stop lying to us. You're not leading an independent country. Now there are countries that they're trying to articulate toward independence much more than others.

That's what we're seeing now, right? We're seeing that in Senegal. We're seeing that in the alliance of the Sahel states. They're trying to articulate their independence and making it a reality. But otherwise, it's on paper. Can you imagine South Sudan saying, you know, we have some criminals here, they're illegally resident in our country. So we'll put them in our plane.

and expect them in Washington tomorrow at noon. You know, tell me if that plane is not shot before it lands, you know.

No, really, we have to get serious. We have to get serious. We have to get serious. We have to get serious as Africans. At least we need to do our part, We need to do our part and we can only succeed to the extent that we can. And the next generation picks up the baton and they continue the struggle.

Adesoji Iginla (26:07.142)
They do even with.

Adesoji Iginla (26:31.332)
OK, speaking of a continued struggle, for our next story, we go stay with the Guardian. But this time, we're looking at Morocco's new pledge with regards to Western Sahara. The title says, UK swings behind Morocco's autonomy proposal for Western Sahara. Well, that's the Foreign Secretary of the UK.

Milton Allimadi (26:46.439)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (27:00.006)
David Lammy and that of the Moroccan government, the UK has thrown its weight behind Morocco's autonomy proposal for Western Sahara, making a shift in Britain's position on one of Africa's longest territorial disputes. Now, the UK has previously said the status of the disputed territory in North West Africa remains undetermined.

Milton Allimadi (27:24.552)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (27:29.136)
while supporting self-determination for the people of Western Sahara. And the story goes on. The region has been contested since 1975 when Spain withdrew from the former colonies back in a conflict between Morocco and the Independent Polisario Front. A US-brokered ceasefire was reached in 19- a UN-brokered ceasefire.

was reached in 1991 with promise of a referendum in the territory that has never materialised. Algeria, a key regional player, has previously criticised Rabat, which is the capital of Morocco's plan, and the US support for the proposal. Your thoughts?

Milton Allimadi (28:18.378)
Well, it's a pity that the United Kingdom, which is on the one hand beginning to take a stronger position with regard to Israel's genocide against the Palestinian people, on the other hand is doing the exact opposite when it comes to Morocco.

autonomy is not the same as self-determination.

self-determination is independent. And that is what increasingly in most countries, even the ones that had previously ignored the Palestinian cause, but now the witness in real time, the genocidal attacks by the Israeli military are now increasingly calling for a Palestinian state, which is the correct.

Adesoji Iginla (29:19.666)
Correct.

Milton Allimadi (29:20.978)
But on the other hand, you are here saying, it's fine for the people of Western Sahara not to have their own state or not to have self-determination. That's what you're saying. That's the about turn. So I don't know too much in terms of the background dealings between Morocco and Britain. So I don't know what could be the factor behind that. It can be that

It's because of US pressure on Britain. You know, that would not add up because otherwise why would they be taking the position they're taking with regard to Israel and the Palestinians, which is not the position of the United States. So that would not explain the flip, you know, flipping when it comes to the issue of Western Sahara. So I need more information, but it's clearly they're backtracking.

from the statement that you read when at one time they were saying the status is undetermined, right? But now when you're saying you're supporting Morocco's position of autonomy, then you're saying the position is determined. So it's very disappointing to say the least. Very disappointing the people of Western Sahara or the Sahrawi as they call

Adesoji Iginla (30:25.66)
support of determination.

Adesoji Iginla (30:37.999)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (30:46.844)
Sarah themselves. Yep.

Milton Allimadi (30:47.3)
themselves, I believe, have been abandoned. They were abandoned by Africa, the rest of Africa. I mean, I know now in recent years, the EU and African countries have tried to fortify, make their relations stronger, advocating for the cause of independence. But I think

Unfortunately, too much time has elapsed. It makes it a bit more difficult, you see. Algeria is the one who has been steadfast support of the Sahrawi people from the very beginning when it was occupied by Morocco in the mid-1970s.

Adesoji Iginla (31:28.722)
Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (31:35.058)
Yeah, December, Christmas Day 1975. Morocco marched across the border and seized part of it. And okay, so there's a part of the article that will give you an understanding as to why the shift in thoughts. And it goes on. it's here. Lamy, that's the UK foreign minister.

Milton Allimadi (31:41.638)
and

Adesoji Iginla (32:04.462)
said the partnership would allow British businesses to score big on football's biggest stage, a reference to Morocco's preparations to host the 2030 World Cup alongside Spain and Portugal. The UN still officially supports a negotiated solution.

that would allow the people of Western Sahara to decide whether to become independent or remain part of Morocco. That's the key there. When he said in reference to, So, it's also, thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. So.

Milton Allimadi (32:43.031)
Yeah, you know, yeah, that's like.

Milton Allimadi (32:48.845)
Yeah, that's financial prostitution of the highest order, you know?

it is and I would like to I like to see it two ways. I would hope that at the very least it is temporary financial prostitution and that after you've reaped the benefits of the World Cup then you'll go back to your much more former position calling for independence for the Saharawi you know.

Your economy is so stressed, you want to make some money, and then after you make some money, you're going to come to your senses? Okay. You're otherwise.

Adesoji Iginla (33:32.208)
Hmm on the on the quest yeah on the question of the

Milton Allimadi (33:36.545)
It's very transitory. Just for one episode, make money in 2030, and then what after that? Unbelievable.

Adesoji Iginla (33:42.748)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (33:49.89)
Yeah, I mean, it's sad reading it alone just. I mean, I just lost.

Milton Allimadi (33:53.713)
But know, times have changed. Times have changed. Normally in the past, when they make these things, statements, would say, you know, and I want to assure the public that there's no financial interest in this decision.

Adesoji Iginla (34:07.708)
Correct, exactly. One would have thought it would have been purely ideological.

Milton Allimadi (34:09.665)
But nowadays they tell you point blank, and you're in it to make money.

Adesoji Iginla (34:18.31)
We're in it for the money. We're in it for the money, you know, and unfortunately you might not like it, but it is what it is.

Milton Allimadi (34:26.09)
We live in scary times, comrade.

Adesoji Iginla (34:30.482)
No, on the on the issue of Gaza when you mentioned the UK was growing

taking a different stance. And the reason is not wholeheartedly because there was a question raised during parliamentary questions on Wednesday where a member of the opposition party asked the prime minister that has a position been made with regards to UK stance on whether it was a genocide or not in Gaza.

And the reason he posed the question was he understand that the prime minister instructed the government lawyers to go into court and argue that what was happening in Gaza was not a genocide. And then asked him to repeat the same thing on the box, which then goes into parliamentary records. But he didn't. He sidestepped that question.

Milton Allimadi (35:25.204)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (35:38.674)
So the moment he said that question, you understand that, yes, the pressure is coming from the outside, but it still hasn't really sunk in. The people are already swayed. The people are just like in the United States, the people have already, there's a schism between the government and the people. Same here. There's a schism within the government and the people. In Europe, the same thing. Schism between people, government.

Milton Allimadi (36:00.751)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (36:08.602)
Like you said, your midterms will be engaged of the people's position with regards to what is happening. Ours would be we have general elections next year, So those, I say general elections, local government elections next year, May. So those local government elections will be the barometer of what the people think of the government.

And across Europe, there are going to be European elections, although we're not participating in it. But then again, that will be the yastic of measuring what the people's stance is which goes to Gaza. But the tide is already turning. So that is in itself is a good thing. The media, on the other hand,

Milton Allimadi (36:52.147)
Alright.

Milton Allimadi (36:56.029)
right. The former the former labor leader, Jeremy, I forgot his last name. What is his last name? Yeah, so I saw an interview he gave. He gave an interview and he said he was actually asked

Adesoji Iginla (37:01.106)
Jeremy Corbyn, Jeremy Corbyn, Jeremy Corbyn.

Milton Allimadi (37:14.15)
and against the powers that be that determine the leadership of the party in the UK heading toward election, that he would give a blanket statement that he would never oppose an Israeli military strike in Gaza. And he said he was not prepared to provide that.

kind of sort of a pledge of allegiance, you know. And so basically saying that, you know, he's now been vindicated by what has since transpired. Yeah. So that just affirms what you just said.

Adesoji Iginla (37:48.53)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (37:57.158)
the ongoing. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (38:02.319)
It's sad.

Milton Allimadi (38:05.34)
Yeah. But you know, listen, at one time, at one time, people opposed even paper independence in Africa, right? As recent as the 1940s, after World War II, Churchill was still saying it would not happen. You know, he said over his dead body, within a decade and a half, all these countries started decolonizing, you know?

Adesoji Iginla (38:05.796)
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's,

Adesoji Iginla (38:17.426)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (38:34.671)
Now, of course, our argument is now they should translate this paper independence into real independence. So I'm saying nothing is impossible. I don't personally believe that this blanket okay that Israel currently has from the United States government will continue. I don't think it will be something perpetual. I think this real-time, live,

witnessing by the whole world, know, stream of this genocide is really going to have serious consequences in terms of changing attitude and policy going forward. Because remind, you know, keep in mind, many of these young people who are out protesting are the ones that are the next generation of leaders in this country, you know. And their parents,

Adesoji Iginla (39:05.372)
dreamed.

Adesoji Iginla (39:28.7)
Correct. Correct.

Milton Allimadi (39:32.248)
I don't think their parents ever witnessed anything of this sort that these young folks witnessed, right? Their parents are saying, you know, these are the victims of the Nazi Holocaust, which is true, correct? And gave them much accommodation.

But now the younger folks are going to say, these are the victims of the Nazi Holocaust. However, look what they are also capable of doing against the Palestinian people. So I think they'll be much more reluctant to give the same type of blanket policy. You can do whatever you want. That the current US leadership.

Adesoji Iginla (40:08.466)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (40:12.722)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (40:25.677)
is allowing it to happen.

Adesoji Iginla (40:28.668)
For me, the shocking thing had been...

still is actually, is the preparedness to shred every institution.

in the pursuance of allegiance.

I think it was this week the US sanctioned four members of the ICJ.

Adesoji Iginla (41:05.564)
mean? I know they're not a signatory, but to actually send a section

Milton Allimadi (41:09.587)
That to me is no shocking at all. They're being very consistent.

Adesoji Iginla (41:16.388)
No but, mean, sanctioning members of the judiciary?

Milton Allimadi (41:22.937)
I think they put a travel ban on ICC prosecutors when they brought the case against Netanyahu. So that's just consistent. It's very consistent.

Adesoji Iginla (41:23.512)
of an international court.

Adesoji Iginla (41:34.191)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (41:38.194)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (41:42.118)
But now they've gone ahead and seized assets that they might have in the United States.

Milton Allimadi (41:45.304)
Right. Listen, if you can send two thousand pound bombs in the middle of the ongoing genocide,

Adesoji Iginla (41:50.61)
Amen.

Milton Allimadi (41:59.488)
What else can be shocking? You know, just think about it. You know?

Adesoji Iginla (42:05.276)
Sure. Sure.

Milton Allimadi (42:07.704)
You're sending weapons to a military that is actually firing at people that are coming to be fed.

Adesoji Iginla (42:08.55)
Whoa, okay.

Milton Allimadi (42:21.122)
Think about that. After they've gone for days and days, days and days without eating, without water, now they come to get food and you're firing at them.

Adesoji Iginla (42:24.196)
institution you

Milton Allimadi (42:33.784)
See you now.

Nothing is impossible.

Adesoji Iginla (42:41.17)
I suppose for me, it's, you know, when you gradually just creep, creep, creep to the point where, I mean, obviously we're at the point of no return right now, because like you said, if you're dropping the 2000, getting 2000, asking for 2000 pound bombs and receiving, being given said 2000 pound bombs with no caveats, nothing.

Milton Allimadi (43:03.806)
Right. What to read? The only shocking thing was that the Democrats actually think they deserve to win.

Milton Allimadi (43:21.449)
You know, and that's not to compare which side was better, Democrats led by Kamala or the Republicans led by Donald Trump.

Adesoji Iginla (43:21.841)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (43:28.422)
was much more, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (43:38.847)
that you could be shocked that you lost to Donald Trump. And you could be shocked. Actually, it was reading main statements and trying to blame Arab Americans in Michigan for the loss. And I said, you know, that's very disturbing, first of all.

You are actually saying that.

The people who have relatives in Gaza and saw the live streamed genocide. You are shocked that they did not vote for you? Because in the back of their mind they're saying, okay, I just saw a live stream genocide. But I think Donald Trump would be worse. It's quite possible.

Adesoji Iginla (44:18.054)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (44:35.048)
that what he will do as president would be worse. But when they factor and compare the genocide against their relatives versus an election, what do you think they're going to do? Would you not expect that perhaps many would not even show up to vote? And the ones that show up to vote might just in retaliation vote against you.

Adesoji Iginla (44:56.774)
Yeah, true.

Milton Allimadi (45:03.663)
Logically that to me would make much more sense than saying no, no, they'll still vote for me because They know that trump would be a worse person. I don't think human beings think that way forget about all my ten family members, know, we heard many stories like that, When entire families were wiped out entire family wiped out My entire family is wiped out. But at the end of the day, I'm say, you know what?

Adesoji Iginla (45:21.756)
Yeah, correct. Yep. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (45:30.353)
That was very tragic and painful. But I'll still vote for the Democrats because I don't want Trump to be president. If you can find me human beings and things like that, I want their heads to be examined.

Milton Allimadi (45:47.605)
I was not surprised.

Adesoji Iginla (45:53.072)
OK. Yes. If you're finding value in the discussion so far, please do like, share, and subscribe to the channel. And yes, to the final story of the day, it's from your favorite magazine of choice.

Milton Allimadi (46:14.483)
.

Adesoji Iginla (46:16.516)
It's The Economist. And it's titled Africa's Most Admired Dictator Rolls the Dice. Kagame's intervention in Congo threatens his legacy at home. Okay, first and first go.

Milton Allimadi (46:18.141)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (46:25.831)
Right. I like, I like that.

Milton Allimadi (46:33.116)
No, I like the headline. I either they've been listening to us or they've been listening to somebody, but they're coming along.

Adesoji Iginla (46:36.633)
get-

Milton Allimadi (46:44.881)
They're coming along. A year ago, you would not see a headline like that in The Economist, know, Africa's most admired dictator. No.

Adesoji Iginla (46:55.046)
But what do you make of...

Milton Allimadi (46:58.436)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (47:01.584)
I mean, what do make of that headline, you know?

Milton Allimadi (47:04.849)
What do mean? I like it.

Adesoji Iginla (47:07.824)
Why would you describe? okay. As in they're outing themselves or, you know, or what do think?

Milton Allimadi (47:16.365)
everything about the headline is actually correct. He's a dictator, but they would never have said that in the past. And he's admired. They used to say, when they got very close to it, they would say, the most admired strong man, you see, that's their code word for dictator. And strong has positive connotations as well.

Adesoji Iginla (47:25.564)
Call me dictator.

Milton Allimadi (47:44.561)
So that's what they normally use. It's so easy to read.

Adesoji Iginla (47:45.81)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (47:52.165)
the transition as well. When they're evolving toward a certain direction and position, you can read it by the words they use. So when they were still very supportive, editorially very supportive of him, they would use authoritarian.

Adesoji Iginla (48:03.633)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (48:12.972)
or strong man, right? Because dictator, there's no wiggle room when you say somebody's a dictator, but now they don't mind giving him no wiggle room, you see? Which actually stands a lot because normally people that publish The Economist, they are part of the ruling class. So they know the conversations.

Adesoji Iginla (48:16.476)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (48:27.73)
Okay, so let's.

Milton Allimadi (48:42.657)
that are ongoing within the ruling class. So it suggests that the ruling class

Adesoji Iginla (48:47.132)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (48:51.661)
may have come to the conclusion that at some point exactly there you go.

Adesoji Iginla (48:56.249)
he's dispensable?

Milton Allimadi (49:02.177)
There you go.

Adesoji Iginla (49:05.714)
Ok, let's go on. So Kagame's intervention in Congo threatens his legacy at home. There's the man himself. Back in the 1990s, Paul Kagame grabbed global attention as the leader of a rebel group that halted the Rwandan genocide, the worst mass atrocity of the past four decades. In the 2000s and the 2010s, he became Africa's most admired dictator, turning Rwanda from a graveyard

Milton Allimadi (49:13.047)
Hmm. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (49:35.288)
into a case study at Harvard Business School with one of the fastest growing rates in the world.

More than three decades on, Mr. Kagame, far from being the darling of the donors to Africa's arch exponent of realpolitik, he has turned to new friends abroad to gamble on state-led modernization. In neighboring Congo, he has fueled a long-running conflict, which is obvious.

Taking advantage of geopolitical shift, Mr. Kagame has befriended rising powers, acquiring reponses for his formidable army from China, Russia, and Turkey. Rwanda looks up to Israel, another small nation with a shared history of suffering genocide and fighting its neighbors. Is that a proper categorization? That part.

Milton Allimadi (50:38.037)
Repeat that question.

Adesoji Iginla (50:42.002)
Okay, so if you read the paragraph, this highlighted portion, is that a proper categorization, know, equating Rwanda with Israel, another small nation with a shared history of suffering genocide and fighting its neighbors?

Milton Allimadi (50:47.885)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (50:55.991)
That'll be fine.

Milton Allimadi (51:02.413)
I mean, I have no issue so far with what they've said. I think clearly, they're referring to Rwanda and trying to, the deal is trying to work out with the US. Those are one of the new friends they're looking for. And Rwanda has always projected itself as Israel because prior to the ongoing genocide in Gaza, Israel had a lot more global sympathizers.

Adesoji Iginla (51:07.269)
OK.

Adesoji Iginla (51:16.284)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (51:32.155)
And the argument they always use was, you we survived the genocide in the Nazi Holocaust and we're surrounded by hostile neighbors. So Rwanda used the same logic. We survived the genocide in 94 and was surrounded by potentially hostile neighbors, including Congo, which wants to support people that committed the genocide against us.

Adesoji Iginla (51:43.986)
Mmm, okay.

Milton Allimadi (52:01.268)
So they really use that logic.

Adesoji Iginla (52:02.93)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (52:07.614)
very effectively by the way, for the last couple of decades.

Adesoji Iginla (52:08.978)
Okay, so you got, yeah, yeah, 30 years. Yeah. He offers to receive deported migrants, export critical minerals or send troops to places where the West is unwilling to go, have helped limit criticisms of Rwanda's human rights abuses and its backing of M22, a Congolese militia.

Milton Allimadi (52:18.442)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (52:25.812)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (52:31.123)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (52:36.138)
Yep. Yep. And in the past they would never put it that specifically and very clearly. No, really, there's a shift, there's a serious shift.

Adesoji Iginla (52:38.758)
OK. So it goes.

Adesoji Iginla (52:49.188)
Okay, it goes on. Rwanda earns hundreds of millions of dollars from exporting smuggled gold and other metals from Congo. Some in Rwanda's elite want to redraw what they complain are colonial imposed borders.

Milton Allimadi (52:59.498)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (53:04.348)
and

Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (53:10.426)
I mean, this is really out in this guy as like we don't want to do anything

Milton Allimadi (53:14.995)
No, really. And this is the economist. I'm telling you, the people that produce the economists are people who are in conversation with leading members of parliament, policymakers, prime minister, foreign secretary, and they're conversation with leading US officials as well, leading US senators, people in the White House. You know, the column is called...

Adesoji Iginla (53:35.708)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (53:44.902)
you know, how many people would deny the economist an interview or even background conversation that is never quoted. know, a lot of information comes through, you know, these background conversations, you know. Yeah, so for them to come out explicitly like this, means they're conversations.

Adesoji Iginla (53:58.482)
channels. Yeah, yeah. And it goes on.

Milton Allimadi (54:06.108)
to conversation.

Adesoji Iginla (54:06.482)
And it goes on, the arrival of the Trump administration, which Mr. Kagame saw as was less worried about territory grabbing probably factored into his thinking. Creating facts on the ground unbothered by an indifferent America went the calculation would be at very least produce leverage in any negotiation. So obviously now what they're saying is,

Milton Allimadi (54:19.805)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (54:30.875)
Right. Absolutely.

Adesoji Iginla (54:34.224)
He is, he must have gambled. Yeah. Yeah. We can say, yeah, he's rolled the dice. Yeah. So how do you think this will pan out?

Milton Allimadi (54:46.6)
Okay, well.

Milton Allimadi (54:50.47)
You know, if the Congolese really play it right, I think they could gain from this because at the end of the day, what does Rwanda have to bargain? Let's have with what Congo has first of all. And when I say this as anti-imperialist, anti-neocolonialist, it does not mean I'm endorsing it, of course, but I'm just explaining the logic.

Adesoji Iginla (54:59.634)
sideline him.

Adesoji Iginla (55:17.692)
You

Milton Allimadi (55:19.139)
the logic and the logic is this within the government correct. Congo has the resources, the mines are Congolese. All the mines are Congolese, the minerals belong to the Congo. That's what the Congo has to put on the table. What does Rwanda has put on the table? I will stop invading.

Adesoji Iginla (55:20.101)
the next video.

Adesoji Iginla (55:43.079)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (55:49.773)
I think that's a cut you can sell only, you can only sell for a while, you know, as the situation changes on the ground. At one point, you're not going to be able to come and say, you know what, I will stop invading. No, because by that time, hopefully things have normalized in Eastern Congo. They now have had time to

Adesoji Iginla (55:50.99)
If you let me have.

Milton Allimadi (56:18.733)
you know, produce a much more efficient and capable armed force that are able to secure their borders, you know. So I don't think...

whatever deal they sign, right? don't know what the deal says, the agreement. I don't think the deal could say that, you know, five years from now Rwanda would have the right to invade again. I doubt it. That would be the most insane deal ever signed in human history, right? So assuming there's no clause of that nature, you know, if Congo gets five years of

Adesoji Iginla (56:36.882)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (56:59.804)
Hmm?

Milton Allimadi (57:00.397)
peace and stability, it can start, you know, benefiting more from all of its resources. Because I guarantee you, Rwanda would no longer be in a position to steal 1 billion watt of minerals. And Uganda too, by the way. I think the reason why Uganda is not getting as much negative media as Rwanda. steals about the equal amount, 500 million to 1 billion worth of gold.

Because Uganda has not been threatening lately at least to annex parts of Congo, you see? So the part where Uganda has deployed its soldiers, they're just there to supervise the plunder, to make sure the smuggling is done efficiently, you know? And that's why Congo has not been complaining too much about Uganda, but Uganda is doing the same thing, stealing resources.

Adesoji Iginla (57:50.3)
and

Milton Allimadi (57:59.019)
Perhaps not killing as many people as the...

Adesoji Iginla (58:03.388)
keeping the supply chain going.

Milton Allimadi (58:06.087)
Exactly, absolutely. So that's what might happen. And I think the economist is actually saying that indirectly, that Congo has the resources, Rwanda has the army, which it uses to periodically invade, and you cannot use that perpetually. I think that's a, if I read the economist carefully, that's what the article is actually saying.

Adesoji Iginla (58:09.49)
So I mean in

Adesoji Iginla (58:31.378)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (58:36.338)
in between.

Adesoji Iginla (58:42.386)
Yeah, so again, we have come to the end of another episode of African News Review. And as usual, we look forward to the next week because we hope to return. But before we say our goodbyes, in the course of the week in the United States, was there any standouts?

Milton Allimadi (58:51.328)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (59:11.376)
news item for you.

Milton Allimadi (59:14.024)
I think the standout is that there are two, course. There's the rupture between President Trump and Elon Musk. And, you know, on my WBAI show, I believe it was sometime in January, when I said because of the nature of the ego of these two individuals, I do not give it four years, which of course is the length of the presidential term. I say I would be surprised.

Adesoji Iginla (59:31.964)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (59:42.023)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (59:42.716)
Four months, I said. you know, and it does not take nuclear science or anything. So I'm not saying there was any genius on my part, but it was very predictable, just given the nature of their personalities, you know, looking at their individual tweets on various, many issues before they started working together. There's no way that at some point there would not be a clash. And

I think actually it's going to get worse. think it's going to get worse. think Elon would reveal some information about Trump that may be credible and convincing. And at the same time, Trump has the power to harm his businesses. And if the business are being, I mean, the other day, what they said, $150 billion value.

book value was wiped out of Tesla. So at some point, the board of directors of Tesla may actually end up firing Elon. I assume they still have the power to fire him. That's why you have a board of directors. And when the rupture started, I tweeted two things. I said, wait, so might not Trump withdraw government contracts?

from Elon's companies, number one. Number two, might not Trump even consider deporting Elon. And now, of course, that's in the conversation now, but that's also not anything surprising on nuclear science. That's just having to know Trump's nature, how he behaves when he's angry. So that's why I immediately tweeted that, and I'm not surprised that a day or two later.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:32.188)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:01:41.145)
It's now part of the conversation. And then the final comment that I made was that, you know, maybe President Seylo Ramaphosa, maybe he gives them some African kola nut to eat, to chew on while he was in the White House. said, hey, Elon, could you chew on this? Mr. Trump, could you chew on this? And then he leaves. He goes back to South Africa and he lets the kola nut do its work, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:41.766)
He jumped on it.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:10.769)
And they become true tellers, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (01:02:12.95)
Yes, yes, yes.

wait, but the other second story that we can actually discuss, you know, wider context, maybe at some other time, is the pushback against the immigration raids, which is of course now unfolding in Los Angeles. You know, the communities are coming together and, you know, actively resisting the raids by the ICE agents. So those are the two prominent stories of the week.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:34.415)
in Los Angeles.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:49.33)
Hmm.

And being part of the immigrant community that is bound to touch somebody we'll know sooner or later. It's just a given. And yes, I must thank you for coming through as usual and keeping us informed. Your analysis was greatly appreciated. Any last words, sir?

Milton Allimadi (01:02:57.681)
Subscribe.

Milton Allimadi (01:03:06.013)
Cut it. Cut it.

Milton Allimadi (01:03:11.805)
Thank you, my brother.

Milton Allimadi (01:03:17.049)
Alutha kontinua, sisters and brothers, please support this program so we can bring you these types of conversations and encourage other people to also critique and analyze media. So asanteni sana. See you next week.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:33.862)
Thank you very much and from me until next time, it's God bless and good night.