EP 9 Rwanda-Belgium Fallout, Kenya Protests & White South African Refugees I A.N.R 🌍

In this episode, hosts Adesoji Iginla and Milton Allimadi discuss various pressing issues affecting Africa, including the diplomatic tensions between the US and South Africa, the implications of Trump's refugee plan for white South Africans, and the ongoing human rights abuses in Kenya. 

They also explore the historical context of these issues, the impact of neocolonialism on African economies, and the importance of youth activism in driving change. 

The conversation highlights the interconnectedness of these themes and the need for a unified African response to external pressures. 

Takeaways

*The US-South Africa diplomatic tensions are escalating due to political criticisms.
South Africa's legal actions against Israel reflect its stance on international law.
*US policies are increasingly punitive towards South Africa, impacting its sovereignty.
*Historical injustices continue to shape current political landscapes in South Africa.
*Trump's refugee plan raises questions about the motivations of white South Africans seeking asylum.
*Rwanda's diplomatic relations with Belgium are strained due to its actions in Congo.
*Kenya faces significant human rights challenges amid political unrest and foreign visits.
*Neocolonialism remains a critical issue affecting Africa's economic independence.
*Youth activism is crucial in challenging oppressive regimes and advocating for change.
*The power of language and media can influence public perception and political outcomes. 

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Personal Updates
01:24  US Declares South African Ambassador Persona Non Grata
06:36 Context of US-South Africa Relations
10:28 Impact of US Actions on South Africa's Internal Affairs
14:05 Commemoration of the Sharpeville Massacre
17:29 Trump's Refugee Plan for White South Africans
23:22 Historical Context of Land Dispossession in South Africa
28:28 Complicity of Colonial Powers in South Africa
28:50 Rwanda's Diplomatic Tensions with Belgium
32:01 The Importance of Speaking Truth to Power
34:52 Rwanda's Military Actions in Eastern Congo
39:36 The Role of International Relations in Regional Conflicts
42:52 Kenya's Human Rights Issues Amid Royal Visits
49:59 The Neocolonial Economic Structure of Africa
55:57 The Need for African Independence and Self-Sufficiency

Transcript

Adesoji Iginla (00:01.079)
Yes, greetings, greetings and welcome to another episode of African News Review. I'm your host as usual, Adesuji Igela. Me is the legend himself, comrade Milton Alimadi. Because...

Milton Allimadi (00:16.942)
Thank you my comrade, my brother. Thank you.

Adesoji Iginla (00:20.899)
Yes, so first things first, protocol, protocol, how are you? How was the week? And how have you been?

Milton Allimadi (00:26.542)
I mean, surprisingly, the weather's been great. We're talking like 60 degrees Fahrenheit. Pre-summer, man, I'm happy. I'm very happy. I hope it continues. And you? How's the new K?

Adesoji Iginla (00:30.979)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (00:34.41)
summer.

you

Okay, yeah, I mean, the UK has been...

Milton Allimadi (00:46.178)
the infamous UK weather.

Adesoji Iginla (00:48.693)
It's been hovering in the, how can I say the low, the low, the low tense, you know, so that would be the

Milton Allimadi (00:56.14)
Yeah, you have to translate that for us.

Adesoji Iginla (00:59.299)
So that would be like, that would be 15 degrees your, your end. So it's freezing basically. yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's freezing, it's raining. mean, so that's spring already, but with the rain. Yeah. True, true, true, true, Speaking of hope for our first story, we go to the money paper, the FT.

Milton Allimadi (01:06.443)
Wow. Broly.

Milton Allimadi (01:16.685)
Keep hope alive. Keep hope alive.

Adesoji Iginla (01:30.115)
and it comes with the story that the US of A declares South Africa's ambassador Pasnanong Grata. So the headline reads, US declares South African ambassador Pasnanong Grata as Secretary of State Marco Rubio expels Ibrahim Rasool after he criticized Donald Trump in an online lecture. That's the man himself.

Milton Allimadi (01:40.96)
Right.

Adesoji Iginla (01:59.383)
Secretary of State Marco Rubio declared South Africa's ambassador to the US, Pasnan Nangrat on Friday, describing him as a race-baiting politician. Who hates America? Do you want to respond to just that part first?

Milton Allimadi (02:15.53)
It's ironic that if you switch the names, know.

Milton Allimadi (02:22.058)
You'd wonder, know, who he's talking about, right?

Adesoji Iginla (02:28.109)
Yes, Okay.

Milton Allimadi (02:31.261)
Yeah, yeah, but it is the old tactic, right? Where the perpetrator always throws it against, you know, the victim. I mean, all I can say is, but you know, I mean, okay, granted ambassadors normally don't speak the way he spoke, but at the same time, presidents,

Adesoji Iginla (02:35.107)
Very much so.

Adesoji Iginla (02:39.618)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (02:58.447)
normally don't speak the way the president of United States has been speaking as well, you see.

Adesoji Iginla (02:58.859)
don't do no no act as the president's yeah

Milton Allimadi (03:05.597)
Right? Normally, people don't see a president of a country and his vice president almost mug the president of another country who is on live TV. So Rubio is being very disingenuous by behaving as if this is something so outrageous that Ambassador Rasul has done.

Adesoji Iginla (03:14.701)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (03:19.681)
You

You

Adesoji Iginla (03:32.194)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (03:35.781)
Okay, it's not usual that diplomats speak like that. I grant it, but we have to put it in the context, which has been playing out. When that meeting with Zelensky happened, anybody can go back and watch the video. Remember that moment when Rubio himself sunk back on the sofa and literally turned his head away like that?

Adesoji Iginla (03:43.213)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (03:59.939)
No.

Milton Allimadi (04:00.986)
Imagine for him to do something like that in public shows you our even how he himself the Secretary of State was taken on back and Shocked and even embarrassed by what I just transpired, correct? but obviously The guy who embarrassed him Is the guy who cuts his paycheck as well? So he's not going to say that you know

Adesoji Iginla (04:16.98)
Hmm, correct, yeah, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (04:29.062)
this behavior by his own president was outrageous or anything like that. You know, he's not going to say that. So he goes and he picks up South Africa. And of course, this is a continuation of a campaign and we can't say this is something Republican or something Trump. This is the outrageous attacks against South Africa that started during the Biden administration. So let's, you know, let's be frank about it. This isn't a Trump issue, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (04:32.341)
is so powerful. Yes. Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (04:46.124)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (04:56.204)
Yep.

Milton Allimadi (04:58.779)
Perhaps we can say that the Trump administration is only escalating it now. But they started punishing South Africa even before the lawsuit at the International Court of Justice against Israel, because South Africa had already been building that closer relationship with China and Russia and the BRICS movement. So that alone had already perturbed the United States.

Adesoji Iginla (05:12.011)
Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (05:22.057)
Yep.

Put them in the crossters. Okay, I'll continue. And in a post on X, Rubio wrote, Ibrahim Rousseau was no longer welcome in our great country and linked to a report from the conservative Breitbart news site about an online lecture the ambassador gave about the Trump administration's foreign policy and its implication for South Africa. I quote,

What Donald Trump is launching is an assault on incumbency. Those who are in power by mobilizing a supremism against incumbency at home and abroad. Rasool said on an online event hosted by South Africa's Maguwewe Institute for strategic reflection. Rasool's expulsion is the latest episode in a rapid deterioration of the relations between Washington and Pretoria since Trump took office.

South Africa brought proceedings against Israel at the International Court of Justice at the end of 2023, accusing Israel of violating international law on genocide during its war on Hamas in Gaza, something Israel vigorously denies. Could you just speak to that aspect of reporting when a judgment has already been made?

Milton Allimadi (06:50.523)
Well, the interesting thing...

Milton Allimadi (06:54.672)
in terms of

Adesoji Iginla (06:56.547)
I mean, it says the South African government brought accused Israel of violating international law on Jordan's side during its war against Hamas and then says the country vigorously denies that fact.

Milton Allimadi (07:12.939)
That's just a sentence they just copy and paste from every article, you know, it's required, you know, so that they don't get attacked by Israel who will say this is a one-sided article. So they, it's like a pro forma motion that they have to go through. But the interesting thing that he said was that, you know, Trump is mobilizing supremacy, right, against incumbency.

Adesoji Iginla (07:29.784)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (07:40.279)
Come and see ya.

Milton Allimadi (07:42.521)
at home, as well as abroad. In other words, he used that tactic to defeat the incumbency of Biden slash Kamala at home. And he's also using the same strategy to try to undermine the government of South Africa, the incumbent, of course, Cyril Ramaphosa. That's what he meant by that. And of course, you know, it's accurate statement.

Adesoji Iginla (07:44.803)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (07:55.448)
Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (08:06.655)
Mariam, close up. Yep. Okay.

Milton Allimadi (08:12.078)
It's just as we said earlier in the beginning of this program today, ambassadors rarely speak like that, especially given the attack that South Africa had already been enduring since the lawsuit was filed against Israel at the International Court of Justice.

Adesoji Iginla (08:19.843)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (08:31.715)
Okay, proceed. Last month, Trump froze foreign assistance to South Africa, partly in retaliation for the ICJ case, as well as his complaints over Pretoria's land exploration policies, which angered the president and his South African-born billionaire advisor, Elon Musk. In his lecture, he repeats the same thing, So,

It then goes on to say, the labeling of an ambassador as Pasternak-Nongrata is a rare and serious diplomatic move. Last month, Rubio skipped a meeting of the G20 foreign ministers in South Africa after accusing Pretoria of anti-Americanism and doing very bad things. What does that mean? I mean, I'm not an American, so what does...

Milton Allimadi (09:24.939)
No, nobody knows that even Rubio doesn't know that, you know, so when he says, he's not welcome in our great country, right? And then he says, for doing very bad things, who speaks like that?

Adesoji Iginla (09:29.504)
Okay?

Adesoji Iginla (09:34.275)
anti-Americanism. Country.

Adesoji Iginla (09:46.37)
His boss.

Milton Allimadi (09:47.513)
His boss speaks like that. So I don't even know if he's the one who's writing these things that he's saying. Maybe he's writing it, reading it on a script. But this is certainly not Rubio. Rubio doesn't speak like that. Rubio doesn't refer to the United States as our great country. Rubio doesn't say doing very bad things, as if you are talking to a classroom of five-year-olds and saying, who did this?

Adesoji Iginla (10:00.395)
Hmm

Adesoji Iginla (10:05.123)
you

Adesoji Iginla (10:15.229)
Mm. Mm. Yeah. Wow. Wow. So one question that jumps out from the article to me is, so effectively what they're saying now is South Africa will be punished for the ICJ case.

Milton Allimadi (10:16.056)
Who did this very bad thing, right? Who broke the glass? I did, teacher, I did.

Milton Allimadi (10:43.906)
Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (10:43.959)
And does it match the... Go on, you were saying?

Milton Allimadi (10:47.457)
No, no, I'm agreeing with you. Of course. It's like an example. Not only are we not going to let you get away with this, we're going to force you to keep making concessions. And we are setting an example for other countries, not only an African country, any other country that would dare to take on the United States like that. Of course.

Adesoji Iginla (10:53.603)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (11:14.995)
So many other countries agree with the position that South Africa has taken, but obviously he's not going to go around doing the same thing to the European countries, for example, who support that lawsuit, right?

Adesoji Iginla (11:24.587)
Everybody. Yeah.

Hmm. Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (11:30.721)
South Africa is perceived to be the weakest link on the chain so they can go out to South Africa in that manner, you know, while muzzling any further future criticism of their nature as well.

Adesoji Iginla (11:40.695)
Y'Ball.

Adesoji Iginla (11:48.319)
hmm but i mean the case is running in the icj and obviously south africa is not going to withdraw the case the case is completely out of their hands now you know

Milton Allimadi (12:01.378)
No.

Milton Allimadi (12:04.61)
that withdrawing would bring down, you know, from a force as government, definitely.

Adesoji Iginla (12:11.211)
Okay, so in light of the stance of the United States against South Africa in particular, how does that hamstring South Africa with regards to its internal affairs? Because clearly, it's focused on Uncle Sam's antics towards the country.

but its internal politics also means it has to react both internally and internationally.

Milton Allimadi (12:47.572)
Well, this will benefit obviously the economic freedom fighters. It will benefit Konto party, Jacob Zuma's party.

Adesoji Iginla (12:52.342)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (12:59.201)
There goes the, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (13:00.689)
Absolutely. Will they take advantage of it? Will they explore an alliance? Will they build this into a movement, you know, prior to the next election? Will they use this moment to educate the next generation of South Africans? Saying, listen, that's why we cannot afford to be dependent on a country, just the United States. You know, look at what they did with the, you know, cutting off

I think the US funding was covering 25 % of the anti-AIDS healthcare campaign. So you can't afford to be that dependent on a country that can flip flops like that. you know, generally we discussed it previously. No African country should be that dependent on external sources of financing. You have to generate as much as you can.

Adesoji Iginla (13:37.549)
for the AIDS program. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (13:47.255)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (13:59.638)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (14:00.735)
Capital domestically which of course means that you have to start treating your workers a lot better Paying them a lot better and allowing them to produce Food crops as well not just cash crops that you rely on for export because you become so dependent on that meal colonial economic model, you know So in a roundabout way in an unintended way in the long term

Adesoji Iginla (14:17.131)
Hmm, okay.

Adesoji Iginla (14:24.611)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (14:29.958)
Well, the suffering is going to be very intense and immense in the beginning, in the other stages. In the long term, this is perhaps the kind of lesson that African countries need it. And ironically, it's been provided by Donald Trump.

Adesoji Iginla (14:37.965)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (14:50.915)
Okay, so before we go on to the next story, I mean, still in South Africa, it's important that we take a stop and recognize the fact that March 21st, 2025 will mark 65 years since the Sharpville massacre. And...

Adesoji Iginla (15:16.179)
Why is it that clearly the audience is different? But why is it that that is not seen as a more pertinent issue to President Trump and his administration? I know, I mean, I'm asking the obvious question here, but

Milton Allimadi (15:35.677)
No, I understand. I understand the reason you're asking that question. We know the answer, but I appreciate the question. It is because we do not control global media. We do not have the kind of media that has the capacity or outreach of a CNN or a BBC or a New York Times, even the Guardian. You know, obviously I prefer the Guardian model because it's not so corporate, you know, dependent.

Adesoji Iginla (15:40.181)
and

Adesoji Iginla (15:47.712)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (16:06.19)
It relies on its own readers. So that's a formula that has worked for them. That's a formula that I highly recommend for more media outlets that want to have that kind of independence. if, know, obviously we have that kind of outreach, we would flip the narrative and be able to show how nonsensical it is for the United States president to take that position and use this occasion of the commemoration of that horrific massacre.

Adesoji Iginla (16:11.191)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (16:36.57)
where the people were merely going there to denounce their past laws, to burn their passes and say, we are the citizens of this country. We were the indigenous population of this country. We cannot be treated like enslaved people in our country by being required to carry this internal passport that determines the type of employment you're eligible for, the type of location where you can live.

Adesoji Iginla (17:06.487)
You can

Milton Allimadi (17:06.619)
So that was the essence of that march, to go there peacefully, burn the passes, and then submit to arrest. And obviously the turnout was going to be so large that the police would be overwhelmed. And it was supposed to be duplicated throughout the country, to show the country how powerful the people coming together really are, and how weak the system that was maintaining the apartheid regime really was. Instead, the regime opened

Adesoji Iginla (17:28.77)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (17:35.705)
with live rounds and killed all those young people. And of course, the organizer was Subukwe, Robert Subukwe of the Pan-Africanist Congress. And he was of course arrested and things were never the same for him again, even after he was released years later. Who knows what they did to him while he was incarcerated because he did not believe, he did not live long after that, even.

Adesoji Iginla (17:56.365)
Please.

Milton Allimadi (18:04.771)
When he was outside, he was still in prison because he was not allowed to travel, was not allowed to be in the company of more than one person at a time. So, you know, one of the major casualties in addition to the young people were killed, of course, was Robert Tsubuko himself, who would have been a voice to reckon with in the post-apartheid era.

Adesoji Iginla (18:14.691)
You

Adesoji Iginla (18:22.679)
Be quick.

Adesoji Iginla (18:31.427)
Hmm. Yes. Maybe well with them. And speaking of South Africa, we go to the AP for our next story. And that comes with the headline saying, wait for it. 67, 67 white South Africans, 67,000 white South Africans have expressed interest.

Milton Allimadi (18:33.048)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (18:59.531)
in tropes plan to give them refugee status.

The story is filed by Gerard Imre from Cape Town. And it reads Cape Town, South Africa, AP, the United States Embassy in South Africa says Thursday it released, it received a list of 70, nearly 70,000 people interested in refugee status under president Donald Trump's plan to relocate members at a white minority of a white minority group. He claims are victims of

an initial racial discrimination by the black-led government. Could you hold the fort? Just someone is at my door. Wow.

Milton Allimadi (19:48.259)
Sorry?

You want me to react to the story in general or specific? In general or specific part?

Adesoji Iginla (19:50.699)
Could you carry on? just going to, yeah, Yeah. Just react to this. That specific part, because I just want to let someone in. One second.

Milton Allimadi (20:06.071)
Yeah. So I mean, this story is, it's interesting on several reasons, right? For several reasons rather. It's no longer shocking because we've heard the announcement made sometime back that this is a policy that Donald Trump was launching. But I have some more revealing questions. Number one.

The per capita income of Europeans in South Africa, the European South Africans exceeds the per capita income of white Americans, right? European Americans. So Europeans or Africans have a higher per capita income and standard of living, generally speaking, per capita than European Americans. So the first question is, who would want to abandon something like that? Unless...

Adesoji Iginla (21:02.71)
You

Milton Allimadi (21:03.513)
No, no, really, unless the person is insane, right? Unless the person is unemployed. And of course, we know they have the lowest unemployment level, but they still have unemployment, right? So while the unemployment for Africans could be close to 40 % for Europeans, South Africans about 8%. So it could be segments of the 8 % who would want to live. It could be wealthy Europeans, South Africans as well.

Adesoji Iginla (21:07.777)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

unemployment level.

Adesoji Iginla (21:29.571)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (21:32.898)
We just want to have dual citizenship to get a US citizenship after they come as refugees, but still be able to go back to South Africa and run their business or try to start a new business here in the US while somebody is having their affairs there. I cannot conceive or imagine that a South African who has a huge farm, who is making good money, who's exploiting the labor of Africans.

Adesoji Iginla (21:36.877)
Correct.

Adesoji Iginla (21:40.515)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (21:53.347)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (22:02.154)
to create wealth for himself is going to abandon that and willingly come to the US to submit himself into a refugee status. And then if I was in Africa, they would say, fine, if this is what you're doing, then you ought to forfeit the land that you're leaving behind. You see? Because you're not going to need it anymore. So we'll use that to re-intribute to. So we absolutely.

Adesoji Iginla (22:09.101)
Be a ref.

Adesoji Iginla (22:22.371)
True.

Yeah, forfeit the land, forfeit the land, forfeit the citizenship.

Milton Allimadi (22:31.927)
Right. You know, so that will be the true test of how many, so you could see that number of 70,000, shrink to maybe, you know, 100 or 200 people, you see. If this thing is really, if these issues I've just outlined are addressed, you know, number one, as you said, are you going to renounce your South African citizenship? Are you going to abandon the land and the business that you have in South Africa? Those should be the condition because you're saying you're a refugee.

Adesoji Iginla (22:40.259)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (22:44.834)
You

Milton Allimadi (23:01.96)
It means you have no status, right? You need, want a new state to welcome you and eventually naturalize you and make you a citizen of that new country where you're running. So if these issues are addressed, I want to see how those numbers hold up. I guarantee you it will not be 70,000.

Adesoji Iginla (23:04.931)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (23:14.083)
True.

Adesoji Iginla (23:23.275)
Okay, I'll read some more part. Okay, so apparently the list was given to the embassy by the South African Chamber of Commerce in the US, which said it became a point of contact for white South Africans asking about the programs announced by Trump's administration last month. The chamber said the list does not constitute official applications. Probably they took heed of what that cost would be. I go for that.

Milton Allimadi (23:51.967)
But not only that, the application, you're in the application, you have to answer some of the questions that we've just raised. Are you renouncing your citizenship? Are you currently employed? What do you do? All that kind of information would have to be revealed.

Adesoji Iginla (23:52.611)
Trump ish

Adesoji Iginla (23:59.16)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (24:08.203)
Hmm. And so you think so you you you you believe no one who have the

Milton Allimadi (24:15.679)
They would look at the questions and they would walk out of the embassy. Let's put it that way. They would not feel that form or they would lie on that form. Right? But of course, as I said, they're unemployed Europeans and Africans too. And those may come. And then they come here, they will live on welfare and they'll find out that they're also impoverished European Americans. They'll end up working at McDonald's. They'll end up, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (24:21.547)
you

Adesoji Iginla (24:27.457)
because

Adesoji Iginla (24:33.825)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (24:44.66)
Some of them end up incarcerated because they'll find that they need to resort to crime in order to survive or Most likely they will go back to South Africa

Adesoji Iginla (24:52.493)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (24:56.023)
Wow, I paint vivid picture, paint a very vivid picture. So.

Milton Allimadi (24:57.022)
Mm-hmm.

It does not make sense to flee from the life of privilege to an unknown destination with an unknown future.

Adesoji Iginla (25:12.107)
Hmm. Okay, one more part. Trump's issued an executive order on February 7th, cutting U.S. to South Africa, citing government's actions fueling disproportionate violence against racially disfavored landowners. Trump's executive order specifically referred to Africans, a white minority group who were descendants of mainly Dutch and French colonial settlers, who first came to South Africa in the 17th century.

The other directed Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Secretary of Homeland Security Christine Noem to prioritize humanitarian relief to Afrikaners who are victims of unjust racial discrimination and resettle them in the U.S. refugee program. But there was one part that stood out to me in the piece and it's this part here. There are approximately 2.7 million Afrikaans in South Africa.

Milton Allimadi (25:59.133)
Thank you.

Adesoji Iginla (26:10.659)
which has a population of 62 million. I repeat, there are approximately 2.7 million Africans in a country which has a population of 62 million.

Milton Allimadi (26:26.963)
Yeah, but what what they have the land the land reform the land the land act not that reform the land act of 1913 the dispossession of 1913 they essentially took 90 % of the land from from the Africans for themselves

Adesoji Iginla (26:29.805)
How does that even make sense? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (26:40.76)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (26:54.723)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (26:55.108)
And most of the ones who were beneficiaries of the stolen land were Afrikaners, the descendants of the Dutch and French and some German descendants as well. And that is how they were able to monopolize the land in South Africa and dispossess the African population. So in fact, they're the ones, in fact, the system was so

Adesoji Iginla (27:05.283)
of the French.

Adesoji Iginla (27:14.946)
Hmm.

Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (27:25.203)
that the Africans who owned their land were expelled from the land that they owned. Africans that were sharecroppers, right, on the land owned, now owned by the European Africanas, were also expelled. So people don't realize how

Adesoji Iginla (27:41.965)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (27:53.638)
horrific it was. It was like, how in this country during the Great Depression, when families were just traveling the road, right? You would drive with your car with all your belongings until the gas ran out, right? Looking for new locations. And then you would continue walking or pushing your car, right, with your belongings in the car.

Adesoji Iginla (28:07.491)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (28:24.806)
That's what billions of Africans face with no home, no ability, no hope, no ability to support themselves and to continue the life. who even knows how many died in that process? Then the ones who survived ended up working on the mines or coming back, not as sharecroppers this time, but like,

Adesoji Iginla (28:26.145)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (28:32.183)
No hope.

Adesoji Iginla (28:42.883)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (28:54.127)
Basically back to like plantation time, enslaved labor, you see, you're paid just enough to keep yourself alive. That's what the Africanas did. And these are the people that Trump, the descendants are the ones that Trump is saying are the victims and are welcoming to the United States. So people need to know that history.

Adesoji Iginla (29:14.691)
Thank you for underscoring that point. The perpetrator of violence claiming to be victim. The worst form of gaslighting ever.

Milton Allimadi (29:27.599)
Yes.

Yeah, but also the British should not get away. The British should not be spared because what happened, as you know, after the so-called Boer Wars between the British imperialists in South Africa and between the Dutch descendant imperialists, the so-called Afrikaners, the Afrikaners were defeated. But then, as the Union of South Africa, the Republic was being formed, the Union before the Republic, right?

Adesoji Iginla (29:44.673)
I did it, too.

Milton Allimadi (30:01.455)
in 1910, the British basically said, okay, they ceded power to the Afrikaners and say, do whatever you want to do with the Afrikaners, you see? Absolutely. So the British cannot escape this as well, any complicity in what ultimately later on became the apartheid regime. I just wanted to add that.

Adesoji Iginla (30:02.04)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (30:11.319)
No, you want to do Africans,

Adesoji Iginla (30:23.139)
Okay. And talking of complicity, we go to East of the Congo, which is in the news and by that is our friend, Mr. Jirapol Kagame. And the story comes from the... Sorry.

Milton Allimadi (30:49.463)
And I said, OK.

Adesoji Iginla (30:51.799)
So the story comes from the New York Times and it's headlined, Rwanda cuts ties with Belgium over Congo conflict and EU sanctions. Belgium, Rwanda's former colonial ruler, pushed for EU to impose sanctions against Rwandan officials over their role in invading Eastern Congo and plundering its mineral wealth.

Milton Allimadi (31:13.309)
No, no, no, no, no. Why are you going so quickly? Go back and read that again, what you just read.

Adesoji Iginla (31:19.971)
So Belgium, Rwanda's former colonial ruler pushed for the European Union to impose sanction against Rwandan officials over their role in invading Eastern Congo and plundering its mineral wealth. You want to? Plundering its mineral wealth.

Milton Allimadi (31:37.357)
Do they roll it doing what?

Milton Allimadi (31:45.437)
invading eastern Congo. So what I'm trying to suggest to you is that somebody has been listening to our conversations, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (31:48.811)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (31:52.514)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (31:55.971)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (31:57.417)
never seen it this explicitly before. Speaking truth to power.

Adesoji Iginla (32:05.421)
from his New York Times.

Milton Allimadi (32:05.489)
invading Eastern Congo. This what we've been saying for weeks. Why don't you say it explicitly and to the point, you know, instead of that, you know, whammy-pammy nonsense, right? You know, always leading with Rwanda vigorously denying, you know, that's how they normally lead. So what I'm suggesting to

Adesoji Iginla (32:15.363)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (32:30.563)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (32:34.845)
our viewers and our listeners is that if you keep speaking the truth, sometimes the truth starts prevailing. Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (32:43.873)
Yes, yes.

Milton Allimadi (32:45.62)
Just keep speaking it, even when you're the few people who are saying it and speaking it. In this era of social media, information can be multiplied. That's a multiply effect that really transcends what you think may be your limited platform. It goes all over the place, right? So when the time starts speaking truth to power and explicitly stating,

Adesoji Iginla (32:56.053)
Mm. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (33:06.487)
Of course it does. Yeah, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (33:13.224)
that did indeed invade Eastern Congo. As you know, the New York Times has a multiply effect as well. Other media outlets then start reproducing that as well. And the truth starts ascending. And that's what we need to keep doing. Never get discouraged, know, viewers, listeners, audience. Don't go with the flow. If the flow is wrong and you think you

Adesoji Iginla (33:22.251)
Of course.

Adesoji Iginla (33:27.735)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (33:41.705)
are speaking truth, continue speaking the truth. And events or people will catch up with you at some point. You know, hopefully sooner rather than later. So I'm happy to see that reference in the New York Times, finally. And for the last three, four weeks, we've been saying, we hope somebody from there is watching or listening or reading. But you can't be complicit in what Ronda is doing.

Adesoji Iginla (33:45.099)
Yeah, and post questions.

Adesoji Iginla (33:51.605)
You

Milton Allimadi (34:09.853)
by not speaking truth to power. So I just wanted to add that.

Adesoji Iginla (34:10.284)
Hmm

Adesoji Iginla (34:14.901)
Okay, so I'll continue. So it goes on. Now, this, you know, when they say picture tells speaks a thousand words. Look at the look at the capture, the caption of this picture. It says M23 fighters with captured Congolese trucks in Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo. So you are in Goma.

Milton Allimadi (34:24.37)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (34:32.157)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (34:43.521)
You are in Congo and you've captured their troops.

Milton Allimadi (34:48.708)
Right. No, I think we cut, discussed this, you know, previous episode that the Congo really lacks commanders and it shows you how

Adesoji Iginla (35:00.696)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (35:05.604)
robotic soldiers really are.

Adesoji Iginla (35:10.691)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (35:11.846)
Because soldiers are trained.

Milton Allimadi (35:16.646)
to obey orders, correct?

Adesoji Iginla (35:19.203)
Yep, that's the case.

Milton Allimadi (35:21.39)
And that's part the discipline. But part of that also has the downside. When the orders are not coming, you can have thousands of soldiers who are useless because there's nobody to instruct these robots what to do.

Milton Allimadi (35:44.228)
How can thousands of soldiers not resist an invasion of their country?

That would happen if they've been cut off from the command structure, correct? So it shows to me that they have, number one, they have no morale, right? No motivation, no command structure, and they don't have effective commanders, really.

Adesoji Iginla (35:57.303)
Yep. All day.

Adesoji Iginla (36:03.35)
Yep.

Milton Allimadi (36:13.349)
And remember, let's go back to even the 1960s, right?

Adesoji Iginla (36:14.403)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (36:19.959)
And I'm not saying it worked at that time, but it took Chet Guevara. Think about it. Come all the way from Cuba to go to Tanzania and then to enter Eastern Congo to try to train resistance troops who are fighting against the Mobutu regime that had just been installed by the CIA and the West.

Adesoji Iginla (36:30.166)
Hmm

You bye.

Milton Allimadi (36:50.155)
after they overthrew Patrice Lumumba. You know? So it shows you the importance of commanders as well.

Adesoji Iginla (37:01.303)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (37:01.657)
and the Congo, they don't have it. They obviously don't have it. That's why Rwanda has been able to take Goma, go take Bukavu, and could continue going and taking and taking. But obviously, now, the people that control this region have said enough is enough, you see? And now, they're reeling in.

Adesoji Iginla (37:18.285)
that the world is on the case

Milton Allimadi (37:32.248)
General Kagame, they're saying no more. And it looks like there will be no more going forward. Certainly nobody's marching to Kinshasa. And even the proxy, M23, no longer making those kind of statements. You recall about three weeks ago, they were making those kind of statements.

Adesoji Iginla (37:35.555)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (37:52.097)
Yep. Yep. Yep.

Hmm. Okay. And so the story is filed by Elan Peltier. And it reads, Rwanda severed diplomatic ties on Monday with its former colonial ruler, Belgium, which has been pushing to penalize Rwanda over its invasion of neighboring Democratic Republic of Congo. Rwanda's foreign ministry gave Belgian diplomats 48 hours to leave country.

It seems as if the idea of expelling diplomats is the running theme this week. The diplomatic escalation came as the European Union, at the urging of Belgium on Monday, imposed sanctions against Rwandan military and government officials for their involvement in the conflict in Congo. The statement from the Rwandan ministry states, Belgium has clearly taken sides in a regional conflict.

and continue to systematically mobilize against Rwanda in different forums. What's the regional conflict? There is no regional conflict. You've invaded the country.

Milton Allimadi (39:01.411)
No, no, no, but that is actually good because...

Initially, they were saying this is domestic Congolese conflict between a grieved M23, which represents the interests of the discriminated minorities in Eastern Congo, aka Congolese Tutsi. Now they are conceding that it's a regional conflict, even though it's an invasion. But by saying regional, now he's admitting

Adesoji Iginla (39:06.903)
So yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (39:22.562)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (39:26.359)
that it's a rich.

Milton Allimadi (39:34.647)
That involves nation states, you see?

Adesoji Iginla (39:35.671)
haha

The power of language.

Milton Allimadi (39:42.499)
It's amazing whether that statement was approved by Kagame or not.

Adesoji Iginla (39:50.531)
So it says the European Union accused Rwanda government officials of fueling the conflict through the presence of Rwandan troops in eastern Congo and the plundering of Congo's mineral resources. The sanctions were Europe's first step towards increasing pressure on Rwanda, though so far it has maintained close cooperation on security and strategic minerals. It goes on.

Milton Allimadi (39:50.616)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (40:18.913)
The Belgian Foreign Minister, Maxime Prevot, said in a statement that Rwanda's response is disproportionate and shows that when we disagree with Rwanda, they prefer not to engage in dialogue. He said Belgium will respond in kind to the expulsion of its diplomats. Now, this is a key part. The United States, the European Union and the United Nations says Rwanda has been funding, supporting and commanding an armed

rebel group M23 that has fought government forces in eastern Congo for more than a decade and launched new offensive there in January. M23 now controls the region's two largest cities border crossings with Rwanda and access to key natural resources including one of the world's largest coal town mines. Coal town

is a mineral that is vital to making smartphones and other electronic devices. M23 is in charge of an area in eastern Congo that is the size of Greece or Louisiana.

So now they've laid the reason why they've actually want to stop them in their tracks because they brought in the coal mine. And you can clearly see that once the coal mine came into being, that's affecting the supply chains. So the supply chains have leaned on their government. Now the government has come out and said, okay, like you said earlier, enough is enough. But unfortunately for the guys on the ground,

Milton Allimadi (41:46.581)
Absolutely.

Adesoji Iginla (42:00.077)
Come on. We thought that we had a good thing here. Okay, you know what? You guys have to go home.

Milton Allimadi (42:07.388)
Yep, they're going to have to go back to their day jobs, you know?

In the case of the regular troops of the Rwanda National Army, of course, they would just withdraw back to Rwanda. In the case of these POSAs who are pretending to lead M23, those are the ones who are going to have to go back to their day jobs, you see.

Adesoji Iginla (42:23.042)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (42:33.867)
Hmm

Milton Allimadi (42:34.952)
They're not going to end up in Kinshasa after all. Not controlling Eastern Congo. No. And of course, the new equation in all of this is the outreach that the Congolese government has made to the United States. There's no way that the EU is going to be in a confrontational position with the United States. Particularly with this particular president.

Adesoji Iginla (42:38.807)
Controlling. Not controlling those minds.

Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (43:06.814)
See you later.

Adesoji Iginla (43:07.683)
Well, you mean the Trump factor.

Milton Allimadi (43:12.41)
absolutely. If they move ahead with this deal that they're discussing with the Congo, how would they you be on the other side, on Rwanda's side?

Adesoji Iginla (43:14.642)
Mm. Mm. Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (43:20.258)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (43:26.151)
That's not possible. things could actually, think obviously Kagame is looking seriously at damage control now as well and the long term and the long term consequences.

Adesoji Iginla (43:26.275)
True, true, true.

Adesoji Iginla (43:37.827)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (43:42.702)
I mean, obviously the solution to all of this is to have one federated East African region. It would eliminate a lot of the problems. The whole Tutsi, Hutu animosity would disappear. Because now, absolutely, now they can move to less dense parts of the East African Federation. Because they have serious issues. have...

Adesoji Iginla (43:43.341)
Do you think it's

Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (44:01.118)
dissipate over.

Milton Allimadi (44:12.6)
land crises in both Rwanda and Burundi and that's what exacerbates and intensifies this superficial, when I say superficial I'm not saying it's not serious because they killed each other in the tens and hundreds of thousands, but superficial in the sense that the factors behind it can actually be resolved you see.

Adesoji Iginla (44:13.544)
Yeah, yeah. Burn the...

Adesoji Iginla (44:35.747)
Hmm. So you think it calls into question those land borders? The Berlin conference? Yeah, yeah. Is it a classic case? Yeah, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (44:41.753)
Absolutely.

No, absolutely. you know, parts of where I come from, you know, in Uganda, you know, we have huge chunks of land which have barely been settled and other parts of East Africa like that, you see? So it's not, that's a coincidence.

Adesoji Iginla (45:01.943)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (45:05.772)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (45:12.057)
that you have intensified so-called ethnic, when they're the same people, know, essence, because they speak the same language, the same culture. You have that intense crisis in both Rwanda and Burundi. It's not a coincidence that they also have serious, dense population density, know. You know, probably some of the most dense in the whole world, you know. So that's the ultimate solution. The solution is not for you.

Adesoji Iginla (45:17.283)
extension.

Adesoji Iginla (45:32.299)
Hmm

Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (45:41.39)
to manufacture a so-called internal guerrilla organization and then you provoke war, you kill thousands of people. Going back to 97, they're estimating that as many as six million people may have died just for you to come and steal mineral riches. There has to be a better solution than that. There has to be.

Adesoji Iginla (46:08.961)
Yeah, we stay in Eastern Congo for, excuse me, we stay in East Africa for the next story that comes from another neo-colonial state. And this story comes from the AP and it's titled Kenya hosts Dutch Royals as Allegation of Rights Abuses Mount in the East African Nation.

His story is filed by Evelyn Mozambi and Nicolas Komu. It reads, Kenya is hosting the Dutch king and queen as allegations of human rights abuses are mounting in the East African country, with Kenyans writing hundreds of emails and petitioning the royals to cancel their visits. Kenyans government has been accused of arresting and detaining critics.

especially after the June anti-government protests during which demonstrators stomped parliament and touched a section of the building because they were angry over new taxes passed by legislatures. Initial question to you, sir, would be why would they think the Royals would be moved by the emails? Why?

Milton Allimadi (47:36.312)
They have to they have to keep campaigning because you never know what might happen. You see I I am ever big I've been doing emails and petitions for like, you know decades sometimes it lights fire. Sometimes does not I mean I did a campaign When was this in 2014, I believe when Sam Kutaisa at that time you got us for an administer

Adesoji Iginla (47:39.925)
Yeah, yeah, but still.

Adesoji Iginla (47:56.515)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (48:04.204)
was appointed to be the president of the United Nations General Assembly. I said, you know, why are you rewarding somebody who is essentially serving a criminal regime with that prestigious position, number one. Number two, it's the same country that has just enacted a law and regardless of your own position, anybody's position on issues of LGBTQ, they enacted a law.

Adesoji Iginla (48:17.218)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (48:32.885)
that had the death penalty for gay people in Uganda, which goes against everything that the UN stands for. So how could he be elevated to that position, even if it's a symbolic position? It's not the Secretary General, but it's the President of the General Assembly for one year of that process. So that campaign started with a few signatures, a few dozen signatures.

Adesoji Iginla (48:38.531)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (48:50.915)
There's a general assembly. It's going to dictate.

Milton Allimadi (49:02.23)
a few hundred signatures. By the time the Guardian wrote a story about it, it had, it already had 3,000, right? They wrote a story, they quoted me, ended up having more than 15,000 signatures. And I had like seven media interviews. In other words, the guys, it was almost his campaign to be the president.

Adesoji Iginla (49:13.623)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (49:23.395)
Hmm

Milton Allimadi (49:32.064)
the genocide was almost derailed. It took in fact like a US intervention for the guy because obviously Uganda had deployed all those troops to Somalia, you see. So they had to cover for Uganda. Otherwise, the guy could have been derailed with something that started as a petition campaign, right? So petition can really escalate after the Guardian, of course.

Adesoji Iginla (49:38.94)
I just say no.

Adesoji Iginla (49:44.997)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (49:49.613)
Quit Proof of

Adesoji Iginla (49:56.515)
Mmm. Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (50:01.266)
I had about 10 other media outlets contact me for interviews, know, including that guy on the BBC, the hot talk guy, right, was trying to, you know, to exactly grill me. And I, of course, I was pushing back, you know? Oh, yeah, he said something like, oh, you know, you know, if it was a successful campaign, you know, why does it have only 15,000 signatures and not more?

Adesoji Iginla (50:11.587)
Stephen Sucker.

Adesoji Iginla (50:19.107)
You

Milton Allimadi (50:29.042)
I said, if it was not a saxophone or a piano, why would you be interviewing me? I just, yeah, silence completely. Yeah, but no, that's to go back to, yeah, so I can understand where the Kenyans are coming from. You never know what catches fire, in other words.

Adesoji Iginla (50:34.443)
Ouch.

Adesoji Iginla (50:44.835)
Okay. Okay. Okay.

True, true, Okay, so along with the cracking down on demonstrators and cubbing free speech, the country also saw state-linked abductions of young men for social media posts deemed offensive to the president. I wonder when we've seen that before. In December, during protest against widespread kidnappings and abductions, dozens of peaceful protesters were arrested.

Milton Allimadi (51:12.752)
Thank

Adesoji Iginla (51:24.417)
More than 20,000 Kenyans signed a petition on change.org asking Dutch King William Alexander and Queen Maxima to reconsider their visits last month. The government in Netherlands said it has received more than 300 emails asking for the cancellation, but the state visit will proceed as scheduled. So it goes on to... Gone.

Milton Allimadi (51:29.874)
There you go.

Milton Allimadi (51:46.093)
Okay, and another good point, let me just say quickly, the 20,000 people that signed, that because now you have their contacts automatically. So when you're organizing another future event, you already have an audience of potentially 20,000 that can come to that event, you see? Right.

Adesoji Iginla (51:51.927)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (51:55.318)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (52:00.396)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (52:07.095)
to start with. Okay, okay. Wow. That's one way of looking at it. okay, so we continue. The Dutch Royals arrived on Monday night for a three day visit. William Alexander was honored with 21 guns and all the other raps. There was little excitement from the Kenyans on the street during the first day of the royal visit. Makaria Munene.

Milton Allimadi (52:15.566)
You're on.

Adesoji Iginla (52:33.355)
a professor of international relations at the United States International University Africa, attributed to the low morale that people in the country find themselves in. There's generally low trust for the government and what it stands for in part because of such critical public institutions as health and education are not working, Muneneh said. The diplomatic clout that Kenya used to have has evaporated. Amnesty International on Saturday asked Kenya

and the Netherlands to place human rights at the heart of the visit, address human rights violations and commit to accountability for all victims following the recent brutal crackdowns on human rights in the East African country. For those who are probably listening to us for the first time, could you explain to them the history of Kenya and how Kenya came to be in the States?

Milton Allimadi (53:27.414)
in the current predicament.

Adesoji Iginla (53:29.909)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (53:31.293)
Well, it's not unique, actually. It's the history of Africa and the history of Africa's economic relationship with the West. It is the neocolonial economic structure that Africa has. It's not, by coincidence, that there's not a single industrialized African country. Think about it. It's not because all of the presidents are incompetent.

Adesoji Iginla (53:54.509)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (54:01.438)
right? Many are incompetent, right? But why is it that all of them have this thing in common? That not a single one of them, their country is an industrialized country.

Adesoji Iginla (54:14.199)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (54:14.26)
is not the answer is that because their relationship is a relationship of dependency. You produce tea or you produce cocoa. You produce coffee. Either some of the principal so called cash crops, right? Or you produce copper.

Adesoji Iginla (54:29.176)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (54:41.79)
And I should add cotton also on the cash crops. You produce copper, cobalt, coltan, diamond, gold, bauxite, uranium. You sell them in bulk, just like you sell the agricultural products I just listed in bulk as well. Those industrialized countries use these resources

in their factories and then they sell it back to you as manufacture. But because the price that you sell your valuable items, you undersell them, maybe at who knows, maybe 1 % of its value. I don't know. We have to calculate these things. Maybe 10 % in some cases. Because your prices are low. Obviously, you're going to be short of the funds you need.

to buy the manufacturers because the price is now going up exponentially. You see? So you're not producing it. You become dependent on it. Automobiles, computers, smartphones, pharmaceuticals, you name it, manufacture. You continue importing, increasing quantities because your population is going up. So where do you have the money to buy the extract?

Adesoji Iginla (55:41.868)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (56:06.179)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (56:10.664)
You borrow, right? That's why you borrow money from the IMF and World Bank. To be able to meet your import bill, right? To pay for your imports.

And then you have to keep increasing the taxes on your population. That is already increasingly becoming more impoverished. You're adding to their poverty by taxing them so you can pay the interest on the loan you took from the IMF and World Bank to pay for the difference in your import bill.

Adesoji Iginla (56:31.626)
of

Milton Allimadi (56:43.485)
So the Kenyans said enough is enough. And increasingly in many other Afghan countries, the youth are saying enough is enough. The Kenyans took it in the street in December of 2024. The reprisal was brutal, but at least they pushed back that tax law that had been enacted. The government realized that if we keep insisting on this, it could escalate into a national uprising. So they backed off, but the government

has since been abducting people using the Uganda model. Uganda under General Musevena has been doing that for a long time. In fact, there was speculation that Uganda was assisting the Kenyans in these abductions. And then of course, we got the proof and evidence when the leader, one of the leaders of Ugandan opposition movement, Dr. Kisa Beceje was kidnapped in Kenya by Uganda operators.

Adesoji Iginla (57:30.509)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (57:38.785)
was

in your

Milton Allimadi (57:43.196)
taken back to Uganda, which of course then proved what people have been speculating all along, that Uganda operators are operating in Kenya, assisting Kenya, because this was not something that was widespread in Kenya, but it was widespread in Uganda. Then suddenly in Kenya, people also started disappearing. Some ended up being found dead, some were tortured and released. So that's where Kenya is, and that's why the Kenyans are saying they don't need

Adesoji Iginla (57:50.466)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (58:12.078)
a foreign dignitaries to come there and legitimize this current regime by paying state visits. That's what it's all about.

Adesoji Iginla (58:23.523)
And it also might be pertinent for people to know that Kenya also had an uprising in its formative states. When, like you said, you broke down the neocolonial economy, Kenya now exports in order to import. It sells flowers, coffee, tea to import food.

Milton Allimadi (58:49.19)
Let's run.

Milton Allimadi (58:53.37)
Yeah, this is really a shame.

Adesoji Iginla (58:54.179)
with some of the most arable land on the continent. That is absurd. know? So, go on.

Milton Allimadi (59:03.264)
It You have observed in all the African countries that that is occurring. There should not be a single African country with food shortage. But they're only 24 hours in a day. If you have farmers growing coffee, you know, instead of food that they can eat, instead of growing, you know, even vegetables, you know, or greens, that happens. You're going flowers because you want to export it to $200.

Adesoji Iginla (59:09.795)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (59:26.179)
The growing flowers.

Milton Allimadi (59:32.664)
and euros and pounds.

Adesoji Iginla (59:37.271)
Hmm. Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (59:38.404)
Yes, that is the fight for Africa's independence. The young people must continue to fight for Africa's independence so that they're in a position to decide what they produce. First, satisfy the needs of your stomach and your family. And then grow other things for export. That makes more sense to me than the other way around.

Adesoji Iginla (59:55.851)
Hmm

Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:04.739)
Yep, Unfortunately, you know, again, the power of media and the need to disseminate information like this that has been put into proper context becomes much more important rather than the potty and pulp that they're fed doing corporate media or as a

Milton Allimadi (01:00:21.079)
Without a doubt.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:33.475)
The great Noam Chomsky will say, concept being manufactured from day to day. What else do you, you know, that kind of thing. So it's, um, it's important that we continue this conversation. Although we've come to the end of this week's episode. Next week, we're going to be doing a book review and the book review is one of, I would say, Martinique, but we'll claim him.

Milton Allimadi (01:00:39.108)
correct.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:03.445)
Africa's greatest thinkers, Frantz Fanon. And the book is titled, the African Revolution, Frantz Fanon. And so Brother Milton and I will be looking at this book next week. And we hope you join us then. hope you've found value in the stories we've gone through today. And if you do, please consider subscribing.

Milton Allimadi (01:01:29.668)
Thanks.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:33.697)
you know, sharing the information. You can also download it, the audio version on all podcast platforms on Monday, first in Monday morning. And you can listen to it on your way to work or while you go about your normal business. Brother Milton.

Milton Allimadi (01:01:53.879)
luta continua remain pan-african and see you next week sister and brother

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:01.227)
And for me, yes, keep thinking African, towards an African revolution and towards the African liberation, both mind, body and space. Until next week, good night and God bless.