EP 4 Neo-Colonialism in Living Color I African News Review 🌍

In this conversation, Adesoji Iginla and Milton Allimadi discuss the media's portrayal of Africa, the influence of political narratives, the historical context of colonialism, and the ongoing impact of these issues on modern Africa. 
They explore the role of Russia in Africa's geopolitical landscape, the legacy of slavery, and the need for corporate accountability in environmental matters.

Takeaways

*The media plays a significant role in shaping perceptions of Africa.
*Trump's actions have amplified the Afrikaner narrative.
*Colonial history continues to affect modern African societies.
*Russia's military presence in Africa is increasing.
*The legacy of slavery is still relevant in contemporary discussions.
*Corporate accountability is essential for addressing environmental issues.
*The portrayal of Africa in Western media often lacks nuance.
*Diversity in journalism is crucial for accurate reporting.
*The Afrikaner narrative is often exaggerated and politically motivated.
*Environmental degradation in Nigeria highlights corporate negligence.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Conversation
01:36 Media Representation of Afrikaners in South Africa
05:03 Claims of Persecution and Historical Context
09:29 The Role of Diversity in Journalism
12:23 Trump's Influence on South African Land Issues
23:13 Russia's Naval Base Plans in Sudan
29:30 Russia's Influence in Sudan
32:35 The Human Cost of Conflict
34:17 Legacy of Slavery and Corporate Accountability
47:29 Reparations and Historical Injustices
52:51 Environmental Justice and Corporate Responsibility

Transcript

Adesoji Iginla (00:02.048)
Yes, greetings, Welcome again, as usual, to our weekly conversation about Africa in the Western press. I am your host, Adesuji Ginla. With me, as usual, is journalist, broadcaster, comrade Milton Alimadi, whose book, again, I can't stress enough, Manufacturing Hate, how, you know, how the

Milton Allimadi (00:05.101)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (00:31.138)
Continent was demonized in the Western media. Yes, the motivation behind this show. Without further ado, without further ado, Brother Milton, how's your, how's your wing pain?

Milton Allimadi (00:39.234)
sponsor.

Milton Allimadi (00:45.966)
Yes sir. excellent, excellent. Always look forward to rendezvous on weekends.

Adesoji Iginla (00:52.952)
Yes, same here. And it seems as if the ripples from Your Neck of the Woods is still flowing into the African continent. It normally does, but this time it's some colonial feel to it. And for our first story, we go to your favourite newspaper, the New York Times. And what's the headline? The headline reads...

Milton Allimadi (01:17.313)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:24.61)
Surprise, surprise. Some Africanas cheer as Trump amplifies claims of persecution. It reads, an executive order from President Trump on Friday puts the weight of US influence behind their wholly disputed claim in South Africa that Africanas were the victim of unjust racial discrimination. Do you want to say something before we go into it or you want to hold fire?

Milton Allimadi (01:51.806)
Yes.

No, no, it's good to catch them from the very beginning. I think the article itself, you know, I mean, out of a 10, I might give it an 8. But you can't say nonsense like heartily disputed. Heartily disputed by whom?

Adesoji Iginla (01:57.644)
you

Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (02:04.044)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (02:14.168)
True? Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (02:14.581)
See you guys Friday.

You know, so that's completely nonsense. That's, I don't even know what to say.

Adesoji Iginla (02:23.508)
Okay, so we'll continue whilst you catch your breath. it goes into, and the story is filed by John Elegon and Lindsay Chuttle.

And the loop

Milton Allimadi (02:40.874)
And, you know, to be honest, you I have to be very blunt here. When you do a story like this, you can't have two Europeans writing about a story like this.

Adesoji Iginla (02:51.434)
Okay, okay, okay. But I mean, the reporting was... Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (02:54.303)
if I were the editor, you know, and this is something that actually came up in my research, in my book.

Adesoji Iginla (03:02.561)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (03:05.659)
I think it's toward the end, but I don't know if I used that quote. I may not have used it, but I interviewed, I think it was, his name is, last time it was Kovacs, and he used to be the curator of the Nieman Foundation for journalism at Harvard. And when I interviewed him for my book, he said he used to read stories about South Africa.

Adesoji Iginla (03:23.384)
OK.

Milton Allimadi (03:33.096)
And then he started reading stories that were much more revealing, right? Including a New York Times reporter who was asked, was confronted by a European South Africa when she was walking in the neighborhood where she lived. And she was asked if she was a maid and which home did she work for, you know?

Adesoji Iginla (03:38.392)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (04:00.351)
interesting.

Milton Allimadi (04:01.756)
because this was a black reporter. I think she was one of the earliest black reporters they started sending to South Africa. And he said, and this to me, this is him speaking, revealed the need to have diversity in terms of the types of journalists that we send to Africa. Because a white reporter would never have gotten a story like that.

Adesoji Iginla (04:12.246)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (04:15.576)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (04:24.248)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (04:29.351)
and the types of stories that she subsequently kept getting. And I don't remember who the reporter's name was. But I just say that in a case like this, now you see the need for it as well. I don't think, unless this is something that editors just put in later on, hardly disputed that a reporter exactly would not say, a minute.

Adesoji Iginla (04:33.464)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (04:47.864)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (04:52.756)
A straightforward story. Yep.

Milton Allimadi (04:58.315)
Why you saying this is not disputed? They own 70 % of the land. They control the economy. They have the lowest unemployment levels in the country. How are they being discriminated and exploited? This is nothing that can be disputed. The facts are very clear. There's nothing subjective about it, you see? And that's why I...

Adesoji Iginla (05:24.6)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (05:27.618)
I hotly oppose that comment.

Adesoji Iginla (05:30.581)
You

You're a man of few words. Let's continue. So it reads, for decades, some members of the white Africana minority have been trying to convince anyone and everyone who would listen that they were the true victims in post-apartheid South Africa.

Milton Allimadi (05:34.415)
But yeah.

Right, but let's go ahead.

Adesoji Iginla (05:56.738)
They have made claims of mass killings of their people and widespread land grabs by Black-led governments that they insist is seeking retribution for the sins of the Afrikaner-led apartheid government. Their stories have been false or greatly exaggerated, but has not stopped them from being widely amplified and repeated online. And it continues. Afrikaner, an ethnic group

that descended from European, primarily Dutch colonizers, have found a champion for their cause in President Donald Trump and it has led to a moment that few of them could have imagined. Mr. Trump on Friday put the weight of the American influence behind a hotly disputed claim that the Africanas were the victims of unjust racial discrimination, issuing an executive order to allow them to migrate

the United States as refugees and halting aid to South Africa? Do you wish to comment?

Milton Allimadi (07:01.698)
The only thing that stands out once again is they're hardly disputed. It should be the easily repudiated claim. That's how we should read.

Adesoji Iginla (07:04.258)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (07:13.056)
You

Milton Allimadi (07:14.294)
The reporters know that. The editors know that. So are they succumbing to fears of Donald Trump, fears of Elon Musk, fears of the sensitivity of these inheritance descendants of the racist apartheid system in South Africa? I can't figure it out.

Adesoji Iginla (07:37.08)
Or it could be… I mean yes, it's self-censorship in a way, but then the motivation is the key event. What is the motivation?

Milton Allimadi (07:48.298)
No, it's a fear of reaction by some quarters. This is not a heartily disputed issue. That's complete nonsense. And they know it as well.

Milton Allimadi (08:03.744)
By saying how did this pose, how did this, you're actually giving it some legitimacy. Think about it, right?

Adesoji Iginla (08:10.37)
Hmm.

I mean, the story would break out the way you would

Milton Allimadi (08:16.359)
the hotly disputed claim that Hitler was a dictator. Hello. These guys, they operated a Nazi-inspired regime in South Africa. How quickly we forget that, And they're their claims are hotly disputed. Hello. You know, so that reference alone ruins the entire article, is what I'm willing to say.

Adesoji Iginla (08:22.42)
or Poport was a dictator.

Adesoji Iginla (08:32.425)
Yes, yes.

Adesoji Iginla (08:46.026)
Hmm. The fact that you even give it

Milton Allimadi (08:47.262)
Yeah, so that one percent destroys the 90 plus percent or 99 percent in my view.

Adesoji Iginla (08:56.728)
The fact that you even give this sort of story, this amount of inches in a newspaper of New York Times reputation suggests what you alluded to in the first place is this need to please someone.

Milton Allimadi (09:17.572)
No, actually the amount of space itself I have no problem with. The content is what I have problems with. There are not enough South African black people repudiating this in quotes and saying, can't believe this. My great, great grandfather was sent to some barren remote

Adesoji Iginla (09:22.872)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (09:27.288)
You

Milton Allimadi (09:46.352)
lands in the trans sky and our land was stolen and you know we've been suffering the legacy of this up today and now we have a white man at the white house you know so the story could have been much much more strong than which case i would have no issue with the length of the story but it comes back to what you just said the length of the story and the fact that it was not done correctly

Adesoji Iginla (10:02.146)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (10:07.04)
OK.

Adesoji Iginla (10:14.678)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (10:14.769)
does confirm what you just said, that it is giving it the false legitimacy.

Adesoji Iginla (10:21.578)
Okay, I'll continue. And the move was met with dismay in South Africa. A majority Black nation where more than 90 % of the population comes from racial groups persecuted by the racist apartheid regime. These groups, Black and a very offensive word to African Americans, colored and Indian, remain statistically far behind the white minority in virtually

every economic measure. They have

Milton Allimadi (10:53.284)
And you can't write a story like this without revealing that the blacks are the most marginalized, the most discriminated, and the most impoverished as well.

Adesoji Iginla (11:04.713)
Hmm. Hmm. They have been groups of mothers of white farmers, the focus of the Africanas grievances, but police statistics suggest that they account for very small share of the country's killings. So are you saying the kid that cried wolf?

Milton Allimadi (11:24.814)
No, actually, this is actually where I kind of disagree with that. If you look at the numbers of European farmers killed, and this was a statistics that was already available, there were actually many more in South Africa compared to in Zimbabwe at the height of the land reforms in Zimbabwe. But at that time,

Adesoji Iginla (11:34.36)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (11:44.993)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (11:50.274)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (11:53.231)
Their propaganda was that they did not want to report that in South Africa because it would inspire more pressure to have land reform in South Africa as well. So they actually hushed up and made it appear, it made it appear as if Zimbabwe was much more hostile and dangerous for the safety and wellbeing of European farmers.

Adesoji Iginla (11:56.885)
OK.

Adesoji Iginla (12:08.674)
So even the state, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (12:19.896)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (12:20.511)
Anybody can go and look and do the research right now. I don't have the stats in front of me, but the numbers in South Africa compared to in Zimbabwe were exponentially higher. You see? But then if you reported that, you would have to break it down and explain why are they being killed. You see, what is the motivation? The land disparity and all that, you would have to really focus on the story. But at that time,

Adesoji Iginla (12:33.227)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (12:40.322)
was the motivation, yes? Yes.

Milton Allimadi (12:50.126)
the propaganda was just focused on Zimbabwe and Mugabe. Zimbabwe and Mugabe and Zimbabwe. So in fact, you know, don't blame the South Africans. Blame yourself for creating that dichotomy and that parameter, you know?

Adesoji Iginla (12:53.698)
Zimbabwe. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (13:04.109)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (13:09.847)
And the same thing can be said for what is going on right now as we speak in Namibia. They're not covering the land issues in Namibia as well. So this is our life.

Adesoji Iginla (13:19.317)
on delete.

Milton Allimadi (13:22.933)
the story itself, right? Okay, let's go through it and then I'll tell you what is really missing. So far, I've indicated what is missing in the story, but there's a lot more. And you'll see the true agenda behind a story like this.

Adesoji Iginla (13:37.016)
Okay, for Africanas who make up 4 % of the population, Mr. Trump's action was a culmination of years of international lobbying. What happened last night is probably the most significant international action on South Africa since 1994, when the apartheid regime lost power. NS Roast, the executive director of the Africana Foundation, an advocacy group said on Saturday, that's him there.

Adesoji Iginla (14:06.314)
we have done some good

Milton Allimadi (14:06.785)
Okay, we are told that they're 4 % of the population. Has it told you so far how much land they control?

Adesoji Iginla (14:13.004)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (14:17.195)
No, we've not gotten there yet.

Milton Allimadi (14:18.744)
And it told you so much how much of the economy that they control. So when you frame a story like this, then a reader can be left with the impression that it might be a hardly disputed issue. Because if you only throw 4 % there, then you're drawing that narrative or image of, this is such a small group surrounded by all these millions of hostile Africans, you know?

Adesoji Iginla (14:22.856)
Nope. They evaluated it. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (14:45.26)
Hostile, yes, yes.

Milton Allimadi (14:49.419)
Completely yes, if there were hostile Africans, would be no, there would not be a single European in South Africa today, given the legacy of what they did to Africans, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (14:58.828)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (15:02.744)
Hmm. Okay. Whoa. 4%. Yep.

Milton Allimadi (15:06.143)
No, really, they're too clever for their own good, but they don't realize the Africans out there who are much more clever for their own good as well. Yeah, they're amazing, these people.

Adesoji Iginla (15:14.84)
Okay.

So Mr. Rhodes, go on. We have done some things wrong, but every community has done some things wrong. Mr. Rhodes said of the Africanas. We've had this...

Milton Allimadi (15:29.686)
Think about that. That is a quote that the person willingly included in his article. You know that reporters go interview people for an hour or two. There's no way can you, because two, five newspaper pages would just go filled with what they said, correct? Meaning every journalist after doing the interview select what they want to put in the article.

Adesoji Iginla (15:50.859)
Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (15:58.914)
Correct.

Milton Allimadi (15:59.859)
And that was the quote selected by these reporters. We've done some wrong things. How many Africans were hung? How many Africans were killed in detention, including Steve Biko and many others? How many Africans were poisoned so that even after they released, they died within a few years, like Robert Sobukwe? How many Africans were massacred, Soweto, Sharpeville?

Adesoji Iginla (16:07.17)
Like what?

Adesoji Iginla (16:15.477)
Nico.

Adesoji Iginla (16:25.004)
Do quick.

Milton Allimadi (16:29.841)
and the many other massacres. How many Africans died in the mines to build the wealth that the father or the grandfather of this person being quoted is now saying in the New York Times.

Adesoji Iginla (16:45.061)
Mm-hmm. see? Just a few.

Milton Allimadi (16:49.62)
That's why I'm telling you a story like this. You cannot have it written just by Europeans. They do not have sufficient empathy, feeling, connection.

And just sympathy for the black experience, the African experience in South Africa. know? It's not sufficient to say, I'm liberal, I'm for equality for everybody. No, it doesn't work that way.

Adesoji Iginla (17:04.536)
For the human, for humanity, for basic humanity.

Adesoji Iginla (17:19.936)
labels, labels. So he goes on and he says, we've done, we've done some things wrong, but every community has done some things wrong.

Milton Allimadi (17:22.054)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (17:30.694)
We've done something wrong. It's like you're driving and you took a wrong turn. You went up a one-way street, you know? That's what it sounds like.

Adesoji Iginla (17:34.456)
And you

Adesoji Iginla (17:40.63)
Hmm. And you're course correct without any. Yes. So we've got OK. We've had this sense of being scapegoated and blamed for everything. The fact that there is now a recognition is something I think a lot of people will welcome recognition of.

Milton Allimadi (17:44.69)
Very, very sick.

Milton Allimadi (17:59.494)
All right, I don't even think we need to go further with a useless article like this. No, because the quote is conveying this amount of sympathy that the reporter has, correct? It's not the person interviewed who's sitting there writing this story and sending the final edited version to his editor at the New York Times, you see?

Adesoji Iginla (18:02.988)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (18:07.917)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (18:14.69)
Correct, yep, yep.

Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (18:28.534)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (18:28.764)
Total lunatics, know? Absolutely lunatics.

Adesoji Iginla (18:30.912)
You normally would... You normally do say something that they tend to bury...

Milton Allimadi (18:35.851)
Or if you are going to go with a preposterous quote like that, you're going to find an African who can easily demolish that quote and let it look as stupid as it is. I'm not South African. I'm sitting all the way here in DC, but I would have been able to demolish that quote using factual examples, like some of the things I just said. And I would have also said that this guy is speaking as if he's driving up a one-way street.

Adesoji Iginla (18:39.372)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (18:47.352)
Thank

Adesoji Iginla (19:04.897)
Hmm

Milton Allimadi (19:05.262)
when he said we've done something wrong. You see?

Adesoji Iginla (19:08.63)
as if he's talking to each other.

Milton Allimadi (19:10.938)
There you go.

Adesoji Iginla (19:12.184)
There is, I think the someone agrees with you in the piece and I highlighted it in green. Just was, where is it? It's just about here. Yes. Melanie Vigvard, a former ambassador to Ireland for South Africa said the focus on African rights inverted the history of a people who have benefited since the 17th century from land their ancestors took from black people.

She said she was speaking as a white person and as an Afrikaner, adding that it was categorically false that white South Africans were being persecuted. The vast majority of poor in this country remains black people, said Miss Wakeford. If any group is being treated badly or if there is any human rights abuses to talk off, then in fact, the blacks, not the whites.

Milton Allimadi (20:08.72)
Okay. So I like that quote, number one. Number two, look at the location of that quote relative to the entire story. And then the third point is that quote, while good is not sufficient, we don't have enough African voices out there repudiating. So in fact, the article itself is practicing its own form of apartheid. No,

Adesoji Iginla (20:24.214)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (20:29.4)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (20:34.784)
Wow.

Milton Allimadi (20:37.764)
whether conscious or unconscious, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (20:41.24)
while i was reading it one question kept

coming across my mind and the question was does Trump's intervention here set the store for what would come in terms of other land question across the continent?

Milton Allimadi (21:04.579)
Say that again?

Adesoji Iginla (21:06.092)
Does Trump's intervention in this case, mean, just basically rewriting, inverting the history as the lady said, will that then form the bedrock of all future engagement with regards to the land question, which you alluded to in Namibia, still in Zimbabwe, in Kenya at some point, in Zambia? Okay.

Milton Allimadi (21:27.872)
No, Trump only cared, Trump doesn't even care. This is Elon Musk. And Elon Musk cares about South Africa. That's where, you know, his people are. So Trump has, Trump is not interested, you know, in Africa. I don't think he has any particular interest or knowledge of the African continent. That's sometimes, you know, not bad either.

Adesoji Iginla (21:36.204)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (21:43.745)
Zero.

Adesoji Iginla (21:56.204)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (21:57.327)
probably won't see the kind of wars for resource plunder that were actually occurring during the democratic administrations, you see? The war against Libya was for resource plunder. They wanted the oil, and they went there and they threw out the baby with the bath water, destroyed the entire country, right? And now nobody can get the oil.

Adesoji Iginla (22:03.073)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (22:15.8)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (22:20.672)
With the blood water. Even they can get the oil.

Milton Allimadi (22:27.438)
They can't get the oil. They created all these so-called jihadists, now pulverizing the entire region. Same thing in Congo, right? The legacy of the violence we are seeing today in the Congo, the continuation of something that actually was launched under Bill Clinton when he allowed Uganda to invade Rwanda in 1990. So we're talking 35 years.

of unleashed terror under democratic administration. You see? So Trump is only making that statement because of the guy who shows who is the boss. He's not even sitting next to Trump. He stands next to him like this at the White House, you know, and his own son, how old is he, four year old, know, Trump to shut up, which means occasionally while the father is watching Trump on TV,

Adesoji Iginla (23:05.688)
standing next to you.

Adesoji Iginla (23:16.394)
Is that for a yo?

Milton Allimadi (23:25.505)
The father probably tells him to shut up. And that's how the son must have picked it up. How does a four-year-old pick up those kind of comments? So Trump does not have any particular interest in South Africa. But if Elon Musk says, this, do this, do that, he'll do it. A guy who has $400 billion in his control, he can get a lot of people to do a lot of things, including the president of the United States.

Adesoji Iginla (23:43.265)
Mmm

Milton Allimadi (23:55.158)
You see? But like I said before, I think he's giving a reason for the rebirth of radical politics, of nationalist politics, of Pan-African politics in South Africa. So this is a golden opportunity. Golden opportunity. It should not just be, you know, Malema. know, Zuma is a senior citizen now.

Adesoji Iginla (23:56.362)
Maybe when his son can get...

Adesoji Iginla (24:12.044)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (24:23.991)
but it can still contribute some useful comments. But particularly the younger South Africans have to step up and use this to articulate the kind of vision that we really need to see for future South Africans.

Adesoji Iginla (24:30.008)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because.

Adesoji Iginla (24:39.032)
Speaking of interest, the Russians do have an interest, specifically in Sudan. And for our next story, we go to The Guardian. it reads, Sudan says plans for first Russian naval base in Africa will go ahead. The lead reads, two countries foreign minister meet in Moscow and agree that there are no obstacles to long delay plan.

It goes in further. A plan for Russia to establish its first naval base in Africa will go ahead, Sudan's foreign minister has confirmed, after years of delay over the Red Sea military port. If the agreement is implemented, Russia will join US and China in the region. They have bases to the south in Djibouti. The announcement came during a visit by Foreign Minister Ali Suif

Ahmad El-Sharif to Moscow where he met his Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov. After the meeting, Sharif said the two countries were in complete agreement on establishing a Russian base and there are no obstacles. Do you want to say something before I continue?

Milton Allimadi (25:57.408)
Well, it looks to me that the Russians, and I'm sure they have, you know, the information and intelligence, I think they have come to the conclusion that the military is going to win this civil war. The Sudanese official army is going to win this civil war in the country. And perhaps they have been offered some inducements.

Adesoji Iginla (26:05.463)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (26:15.873)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (26:25.986)
to contribute to the effort.

Milton Allimadi (26:27.273)
to also help them in securing the victory in this civil war. That's what this, I don't think you would be concluding the deal and wanting to deploy ships if you were under the impression that this government would soon be collapsing, you see?

Adesoji Iginla (26:48.724)
Hmm. Okay. Okay. I'll continue. And it reads, the Red Sea is one of the world's most strategically important waterways connecting the Suez Canal to the Indian Ocean. About 12 % of the global trade passes through it. Sudan first floated the idea of allowing Russia to have a naval facility on its coast in 2017 during a trip to Sochi by Omar al-Bashir, the then president.

was ousted in a 2019 coup. A deal was eventually signed in 2020 that reportedly permitted Russia to keep up to four naval ships including nuclear-powered ones in Sudan for a period of 25 years.

Milton Allimadi (27:36.926)
Right. And the timing, course, the timing is not by coincidence. I think it was not implemented during that Democratic administration because he, Putin suspected that Biden would have a major issue with that, major beef with that. But now that, you know, Putin believes he has an ally in the form of Donald Trump that the U.S.

Adesoji Iginla (27:37.474)
What do you read into that? Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (27:55.637)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (28:06.555)
will not mine. And that is quite clear now. mean, look.

The U.S. has basically made it clear that Ukraine is not going to get the land that Russia currently occupies in a peace deal. The defense secretary, Hexette, said, we have to have a realistic outcome. So Putin knows, okay, that's fine. So of course, in an area that

Adesoji Iginla (28:17.335)
Yep.

Yeah.

Yep, Peter Hexett.

Milton Allimadi (28:40.904)
Trump probably doesn't even know where it is, on the map of Africa. He doesn't think that the US will give him any flak for that. So that is why this deal is now being concretized at this particular time in history.

Adesoji Iginla (28:57.08)
Okay, I mean, when I highlighted this part, there was a question that came to me. And the question was, how does Russia's military presence in Sudan, compared to all other powers, influence matters in Africa?

Milton Allimadi (29:07.707)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (29:19.397)
Well, in a weak setting like that, it can actually be very significant. I mean, if tiny UAE can determine the course of history so significantly in Sudan, Russia certainly has much more military hardware and can redirect it in a different direction. I think if you're willing to make a deal like that,

Adesoji Iginla (29:24.535)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (29:44.696)
correct?

Milton Allimadi (29:49.273)
It means the Russians would probably help, as I said earlier, the military secure victory in the civil war.

Even though Burhan, the US has said that Burhan also engaged in what could be characterized as war crimes, he has not been officially designated, unlike the leader of the rapid support forces. Yeah, General Hamedi, who has been designated so that

Adesoji Iginla (30:11.788)
Considered war. Yeah. War crimes, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (30:21.985)
I miss it.

Milton Allimadi (30:32.186)
the Russians say the Russian lies and come to the conclusion that the political, the negative political flack that they would sustain by supporting the military is worth the risk. I think that's what they've included. Plus, if you defeat General Hamedi, it means they would be able to control the gold field, which

Adesoji Iginla (30:42.904)
I've faced. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (31:00.246)
Ooh.

Milton Allimadi (31:01.6)
is the region that is currently under the control of General Hemeti.

Adesoji Iginla (31:07.67)
That is interesting.

Milton Allimadi (31:09.709)
Yep. And now instead of UAE being the big player there, obviously it would be Russia now in control of the goal.

Adesoji Iginla (31:21.336)
Okay, okay. One final piece. Where is it? Last April, Russia Deputy Foreign Minister Mikhail Gordanov visited Sudan and pledged uncapped support for its army. Russia has also backed Sudan at the UN Security Council where it vectored a resolution calling for a ceasefire. A move

Milton Allimadi (31:23.523)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (31:49.699)
right.

Adesoji Iginla (31:50.466)
UK Foreign Secretary David Lammy called a disgrace.

Milton Allimadi (31:54.487)
Right. Okay. Now it tells you clearly the hypothesis that I have suggested, because if you agree to a ceasefire, then you cannot be seen helping the army to secure victory in this civil war. So now it all adds up and it makes sense. They oppose the ceasefire because the ceasefire would prevent them from implementing what the Sudanese army probably wants, which is to

Adesoji Iginla (32:16.141)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (32:23.576)
pursue this war until they have a victory on the battlefield. Right. So it's likely that we will see an escalation. Perhaps they're reading, maybe they've read something that, you know, you and I don't know, that the rapid support forces may have some vulnerabilities.

Adesoji Iginla (32:27.54)
on the battlefield.

Adesoji Iginla (32:45.483)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (32:47.308)
Maybe Russia will help the Sudanese military secure their airspace? I don't know, because if they secure their airspace, then obviously they cannot continue doing business with the UAE, and they will be cut off from their sustenance.

Adesoji Iginla (33:04.759)
Ooh, awesome.

Milton Allimadi (33:06.542)
So that's a possibility. I'm just thinking outside the box. If I am the Sudanese military, what would I want the Russians to do for me? I would want you to help me prevent General Hamedi from being able to fly gold to UAE. So help us secure our airspace, right? Obviously help our ground forces and a ceasefire would be a big obstacle for that, right?

Adesoji Iginla (33:09.548)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (33:13.506)
cover.

Adesoji Iginla (33:24.952)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (33:35.009)
So looks like they already have the main thing that they wanted, which was to get Russia to veto the ceasefire, paving the way for a military engagement.

Adesoji Iginla (33:37.848)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (33:50.904)
I mean, as if that region has not seen enough bloodshed.

Milton Allimadi (33:55.402)
Right, ironically there could be people that might be saying, you know what, if we see significant bloodshed escalated for the next two, three months, if it ends in three months, it's probably worth it. I'm not saying that's my position, but I'm saying that people who are probably calculating that, that this thing has gone on since 2023, going on in April would be two years now of immense suffering.

Adesoji Iginla (34:17.048)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (34:21.549)
Yes.

Mm.

Milton Allimadi (34:24.298)
If this new deal can end the war within the next few weeks or months, I'm sure there many people who would prefer that. Then seeing another two years, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (34:34.932)
Okay. Yeah, I mean, anything for Sudan. Sudan being one of the largest countries on the continent has experience on told bloodshed since it

Milton Allimadi (34:43.362)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (34:46.92)
the most renowned intelligentsia. You wouldn't believe there's a country that's produced so many intellectuals if you just look at what's going on right now. But that's the irony with many African countries, you know, by the way. And that's why the media narrative, the media portrayal of Africa is very important. So we get to remind people

Adesoji Iginla (34:56.184)
my god.

I mean...

Adesoji Iginla (35:05.836)
Yeah, some of most

Milton Allimadi (35:17.203)
how Sudan is not the Sudan you see today.

Adesoji Iginla (35:22.488)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (35:23.527)
You know, which suggests that once they have peace, they will be able to restore Sudan. I remember the Lebanon of back in the day, nobody would believe that Lebanon would ever come back again. I'm not saying Lebanon doesn't have problems, but compared to the Lebanon where you had like a different militia controlling every block back in the day, right? Who believed?

Adesoji Iginla (35:37.855)
Of course.

Adesoji Iginla (35:51.264)
And the only way a prime minister could be changed was through assassination.

Milton Allimadi (35:55.881)
Absolutely.

Adesoji Iginla (35:57.688)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (35:58.663)
And they had one after the other after the other after the other. So things are possible in Sudan because they have one of the brightest people on the whole African continent.

Adesoji Iginla (36:00.472)
You

Adesoji Iginla (36:13.88)
Okay, speaking of brightness, it seems as if corporate interests in Europe have been trying to, I don't know what to make of this story, but it has to, it hacks back to the transatlantic slave trade. know, oftentimes and not, they will go into the archives, someone will discover that they've got a letter that indicates certain things transpired.

Milton Allimadi (36:40.0)
you

Adesoji Iginla (36:41.536)
And all of a sudden, everybody starts pointing at each other, each other person whilst three fingers are pointing at them. So this story, the next one comes from The Guardian and essentially it reads

Milton Allimadi (36:49.492)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (36:57.602)
British shipping firm used enslaved workers in Caribbean after the abolition. Studies find. Postal Museum says research featured in new exhibition shows how global postal service was tool of empire. And the story is filed by Larry Bakery. A British shipping company that became the largest in the world at the height of empire continued to use enslaved labor after the abolition of slavery. Researchers found.

The Royal Mail Steam Packet Company, which received the royal charter from Queen Victoria in 1839, used enslaved workers on the tiny island of St. Thomas, which was a Danish colony at the time and is now part of the British Virgin Islands. Slavery in the British Empire was abolished in 1833, but the RMSPC continued to use enslaved labourers on St. Thomas, its main coaling hub.

the laborers had to use dangerous gang planks to unload Welsh coal imported onto the island. Would you want to say something?

Milton Allimadi (38:07.612)
Okay, so the timing, mean, look, because I just read and I'm reviewing this for one of my classes actually. I two versions. Let me see if I can have, I don't see the hardcover version, but this is the soft-cover version of, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (38:10.771)
Hehehehehe

Adesoji Iginla (38:29.688)
I know that was the you're gonna... That's it then. Yeah, Eric Williams.

Milton Allimadi (38:32.646)
Right. Property and slavery. So, right. So we are informed that after 1833, the Emancipation Act in Britain, Britain continued importing sugar produced by enslaved Africans in Brazil and Cuba. So, I mean,

Adesoji Iginla (38:39.128)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (38:46.187)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (39:02.812)
Why are they picking on this one entity when the entire British establishment continued collaborating with slavery? You see? But you know, so we needed to be like part of a broader story. And part of the problem is of course, when you focus on this, then people are like, lo and behold, we didn't know, how dare you? And then,

Adesoji Iginla (39:14.962)
You

Adesoji Iginla (39:20.813)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (39:31.64)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (39:32.953)
you realize, wait a minute, if the whole British establishment, government, was saying, okay, no more imports of sugar produced by enslaved Africans in the Caribbean, right? But we're gonna continue doing it. And importing from, and that's why the timing of this article that you are reading is very,

Adesoji Iginla (39:36.46)
You

Adesoji Iginla (39:54.872)
You

Milton Allimadi (40:02.683)
because I just finished reading for the second time this book yesterday in order to review it. And that's how I'm able to counter by saying, for example, you continue importing from Brazil, you continue importing from Cuba, you continue importing slave-produced cotton from the United States because Britain was the global clothier.

Adesoji Iginla (40:08.246)
Eric Williams.

Adesoji Iginla (40:25.272)
dates. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (40:31.343)
Britain was providing the clothes for the entire world practically at that time. It was a lucrative industry. You know, you were not willing to succumb to. And that is why this book's thesis are all very relevant and all the hypothesis that he suggests, he verifies them and confirms them, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (40:36.792)
correct?

Adesoji Iginla (40:43.756)
led.

Milton Allimadi (41:01.124)
He said, racism, he said slavery began racism, not the other way around, right? And he proves it by showing that the first people they enslaved were indigenous populations in the new world. And then when they were dying, too many of them by the European diseases, they literally enslaved fellow Europeans in dentured servitude.

Adesoji Iginla (41:08.994)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (41:30.872)
right? Even kidnapping them from prisons in the United Kingdom or from the streets. Even children were kidnapped. So they did that. And then at some point, the third peoples introduced were enslaved Africans. So he proves his rationale that, you know, racism came after slavery, because now they needed to rationalize why they're kidnapping Africans. The second hypothesis he also proves

Adesoji Iginla (41:47.81)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (42:00.846)
that the wealth generated from the Caribbean enslaved regime is what really built industrial capitalism in Britain. And then his third hypothesis was that, yes, the work of people like Wilberforce and all those other folks was significant, important, but it was not the critical decision that led to the abolition.

Adesoji Iginla (42:08.472)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (42:30.328)
of slavery and emancipation. was actually, slavery was now becoming an incumbent, some, to industrial capitalism. So the industrialists no longer wanted slavery. It was costing them, actually. And he proved that by showing that after you eliminated it in the Caribbean, you actually continued dealing with slavers, Cuba, Brazil, the United States.

Adesoji Iginla (42:34.902)
a Haitian Revolution.

Adesoji Iginla (43:01.4)
Okay, I'll continue. And it reads, Slavery in the Empire. Okay, I've read that part. Joanna Espin, a senior curator at the museum said the research shows how the global postal service and its connected companies were a tool of empire rather than a communication source. She said by steaming its ships outside the British Empire where slavery had hadn't been abolished, the RM

Peace SC was able to exploit slave labor on the island. It was a complex story where we are trying to show the choices made by the business and the way the company benefited by exploiting slave labor. What is complex about

Milton Allimadi (43:49.153)
There's nothing complex about it. Liverpool, Bristol, Glasgow, they wouldn't exist without the slave economy.

Adesoji Iginla (43:53.624)
Plymouth.

Milton Allimadi (44:00.136)
The shipping industry never would have boomed like that. Metal producing industry would never have, know, boomed like that, had it not been for that.

Adesoji Iginla (44:09.248)
Mm. Yeah. In fact, Bristol owns its existence singularly to the transatlantic slave trade.

Milton Allimadi (44:19.412)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (44:22.456)
Can you imagine that? So yeah, I mean, you know, so it's like almost you're living with you're living with a tail. But then people want to look the other way. I would go on you are going to

Milton Allimadi (44:26.539)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (44:37.11)
Yes. Yes. No, no, I'm just agreeing with you. You know, very similar to the South African story, presenting a story while avoiding the bigger stories that are out there, you know. Keep it localized so that the people's thinking can also be kept localized, you see.

Adesoji Iginla (44:42.379)
Yeah. So the

Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (44:51.507)
Mm-hmm. I mean

Adesoji Iginla (44:58.804)
Yes, yes, yes. There was a book that came out during COVID titled The Interest, and it just sort of walks on the thesis in capitalism and slavery titled The Interest, Michael Taylor. And basically this runs through how all the establishment claimed

Milton Allimadi (45:14.548)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (45:23.394)
compensation from the state for enslaved Africans to the tune of about 25 million back in the day.

Milton Allimadi (45:29.238)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (45:33.258)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (45:35.092)
And we're not talking about, you know, just your average Joe, we're talking about establishment, the church, some banks. In fact, Lloyds of London is on record as saying, I mean, if you go on their website, it's even still there, that yes, we would like to, you know, make our peace with our role in the transatlantic slave trade, you know, and contribute to us.

Milton Allimadi (45:45.748)
Yep.

Milton Allimadi (45:49.76)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (46:05.14)
understanding what people can, you know, how they, you know, just sort of wanting to paint a better story. But then my people are, we are sort of fixated with headlines and we run off with the headlines. Instead of focusing on the bigger story, how was this thing able to be done on such a global scale? And yet, fast forward,

couple of hundred years later, 200 plus years later, it's a sieve, it never happened.

Milton Allimadi (46:41.908)
Yeah, yeah, but that's why, you know, we did shows the importance of having these types of conversations. So for example, in the this updated edition, this edition, think is from let me see 1994 of the book, which was originally published in 1944, of course, it says,

Adesoji Iginla (46:51.628)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (47:11.099)
In the 18th century when the slave trade was the most valuable trade, the West Indian property among the most valuable property in the British Empire, the triangular trade occupied an important position in the eyes of the rising insurance companies. In the early years, when Lloyd's was a coffee house and nothing more, many advertisements in the London Gazette about runaway slaves listed Lloyd's

Adesoji Iginla (47:30.615)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (47:39.93)
as the place where they should be returned. The earliest extant advertisement referring to Lloyds, dated 1692, deals with the sale of three ships by auction. The ships were cleared for Barbados and Virginia. Only product listed at Lloyds in the bubbles of 1720 concerned trade to Barbary and Africa. Lloyds, like other insurance companies, insured slaves and slave ships.

and was vitally interested in legal decisions as to what constituted, quote, natural death, end quote, end quote, perils of the sea, end quote. You see?

Adesoji Iginla (48:19.0)
I mean, it would be funny if he wasn't sad.

Milton Allimadi (48:26.18)
Yeah, no, day of reckoning will come, you see. The conversation in, as you know, in recent decades have become much more serious and intensified when it comes to issues of reparatory justice, right? People forget.

In the 1960s, as it became clear that at least formal official segregation would come to an end, what happened in the South? What kind of reaction did we see by European Americans? Or at least elements of European Americans? They went insane, correct?

Adesoji Iginla (49:09.366)
lynching.

Adesoji Iginla (49:14.156)
Yes, yes.

Milton Allimadi (49:15.196)
but they could not stop the march of history.

Milton Allimadi (49:21.938)
Is America at the right location? Of course not. Is it at the same location from the 1960s? Of course not. The answer is no. So why am I saying this? I'm saying this because some people mistakenly think because right now we have Elon Musk and Donald Trump coming out with insane statements on a daily basis. That is going to be the permanent state of affairs. You know, far from it. Number one, I don't even think

the relationship between Trump and Elon Musk can survive four years. know, four months maybe, but four years, absolutely no, it's not gonna happen. You know, I wouldn't be shocked at some point if Trump isn't talking about deporting Elon Musk. Right? So I say this for people to not think that the gains that we have secured up to this point,

Adesoji Iginla (50:12.696)
to where though?

Milton Allimadi (50:21.134)
is all going to be wiped out because we have a moment of reactionary politics. That happened. We had reactionary politics in 1960s. You know, to some extent it was overcome, not neutralized. It keeps making reappearances at different stages. It made a reappearance after the election of Barack Obama, right? So it was sort of like a backlash.

Adesoji Iginla (50:42.262)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (50:51.692)
But that backlash is not a permanent location because history is not static, right? Trump comes, Trump goes, and we shift at some point to a slightly better location. And that's my prediction, you see?

Adesoji Iginla (50:58.444)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (51:07.16)
Okay, I'll just end with this part here and get your take on it. In 2023, The Guardian launched a legacy of enslavement program and its award-winning Cutting Capital series, which I mean, I enjoy people to actually go and look at it. It points at how the royal family and lots of institutions within the UK benefited from the slavery economy.

Bank of England, the Lloyds, the Insurance Lloyds, the Royal Palaces, the National Trust, Kew Gardens, the Church of England, and the University of Cambridge have all launched inquiries into their own slavery connection. However, the postal museum said it was not planning any reparations as part of the project.

Milton Allimadi (51:36.757)
Very good.

Milton Allimadi (51:57.835)
So now, this is a good question because that shipping company went bankrupt at some point, but it was taken over by the British government. So the question now is, is the British government now obligated them for compensation or reparations for those people that continued to provide

Adesoji Iginla (52:08.417)
Yes, it did.

Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (52:27.262)
and slave labor after the Emancipation Act of 1833? That's the question that was not addressed in the article.

Adesoji Iginla (52:36.216)
Again, like I said at the opening that most of these organizations talk about what transpires. Well, you find that because they also have skin in the game as it's called, they're not able to offer substantive declarations. The Guardian is involved. It's found that one of its owner also bought into the Manchester Mailery. So when you were talking about the court,

Milton Allimadi (52:48.405)
Correct.

Milton Allimadi (52:53.835)
Correct.

Adesoji Iginla (53:05.879)
Manchester was the city that dealt in cotton. Actually took that off Liverpool, which is why one of their key rivalries in sports and everything is between those two cities in the north. But again, with Guardian knowing that it also has soiled pants, it's highly inappropriate for it, you know, to then say, oh, you did this, you did this. So everybody is on

baited breath as in, what's going on here? this is what you did. this is why I also did. Well, can we come to some sort of terms? So what do you think is the end? Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (53:43.656)
Right. But at least the Guardian is looking at its past. The New York Times has not done a similar project. The New York Times did not even want to have anything to do with my book, which clearly exposed their role in demonizing and vilifying Africans, you see? And then they had the hypocrisy to do a very long article when the Kansas City Star apologized.

Adesoji Iginla (53:51.096)
You

Adesoji Iginla (54:00.792)
Perfect. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (54:13.172)
for demonizing African-American citizens of Kansas, the state of Kansas. They did a whole long article about that. And then when I said, wait, I wrote to the publisher, said, wait, it's a good thing you did that long article, but why this would be an appropriate occasion for you to now acknowledge your own demonization of Africans.

Adesoji Iginla (54:15.948)
African America.

Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (54:34.615)
Hmm.

a row.

Adesoji Iginla (54:40.983)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (54:42.021)
no response. But you know stories like this you cannot suppress it. It will eventually have a wide audience you see. So the Guardian was very smart in getting ahead of the game.

Adesoji Iginla (54:50.144)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (54:55.096)
Okay, to the final story. Again, it's not a game, but you know, companies have had their stuff thrown at us. And for this story, we go to the BBC and it's titled Oil Cleanup Scam Warnings Ignored by Shell. We see blur tells BBC. You can see oil, you know, the oil spill there.

A BBC investigation has uncovered allegations that energy giant Shell has ignored repeated warnings that a controversial clean-up operation of oil-polluted areas of southern Nigeria has been beset by problems on corruption. The multinational headquartered in London, along with the Nigerian government, has repeatedly stated that the work to clean up oil-contaminated sites of Ogone Land, which kicked off about eight years ago, is going well. But BBC

has discovered evidence that they were warned repeatedly over several years that the scheme set up by the government and funded by various oil firms to detune of one billion dollars, about 805 million pounds, has been suffering from a string of issues. The allegation comes as a civil trial is expected to begin on Thursday at a high court in London where lawyers representing two Oguni land communities of about 50,000 inhabitants.

Milton Allimadi (56:17.701)
.

Adesoji Iginla (56:23.628)
will say Shell must take responsibility for oil pollution that occurred between 1989 and 2020, allegedly from its infrastructure. The community said the spills have left them without clean water, unable to farm fish and created serious risk to public health.

What else?

Milton Allimadi (56:46.201)
Yeah, I mean, this is such a tragic story that we're still talking about the Ogoni tragedy today. know, decades, you know, talking years, years after the brutal murder of Ken Sawiwa. But, you know, I mean, that's the only thing they recognize. These are lawsuits, right? I mean, obviously there's a possibility that they could settle so that

Adesoji Iginla (56:49.109)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (56:52.693)
Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (56:58.464)
assassination of Araweewa.

Adesoji Iginla (57:08.971)
Yeah, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (57:15.684)
the information is suppressed, right? I wouldn't be surprised if on the day that the lawsuit is supposed to begin, the trial, that we're going to have an announcement that has been settled, you know? You know, that's what they normally do, because then the evidence wouldn't, there would be no need for the evidence to be aired out in court, you see? If the lawsuit is settled. Absolutely. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (57:17.738)
Mm-hmm, correct.

Adesoji Iginla (57:30.334)
You

Adesoji Iginla (57:40.5)
And for you to go on record. And for you to go on record. Yeah. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (57:45.015)
But definitely, mean, this issue needs to be resolved, you know, once and for all. And, you know, of course, the problem, of course, also is that, you know, our governments, you see?

our government because the government has the Trump card, In terms of saying we're going to halt any production.

on environmental issue grounds until this issue is resolved. And of course Shell would make sure it's completely resolved within a matter of, you know, a few years, completely cleaned and, you know, I don't know to what extent you can completely clean it, but at least do some serious amelioration, correct? But the government will not ever do anything like that because the government

Adesoji Iginla (58:18.413)
correct

Adesoji Iginla (58:29.558)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (58:38.316)
Correct, yep.

Milton Allimadi (58:43.415)
wants the revenue.

Adesoji Iginla (58:46.776)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (58:47.002)
And as far as the government is concerned, compared to the revenue, the lives of the Ogoni are expendable, you see? So that's why it's a tough situation. I mean, they'll get some money. They'll probably get some money from Shell just to appease and buy some more time. Because the cost of total cleaning is probably

Adesoji Iginla (58:57.112)
Wow.

Milton Allimadi (59:17.117)
I mean, obviously they have the money, have, you know, suppose they have insurance as well, but they don't want to go there. So rather than spending hundreds of millions, you know, if they can settle for like 10, 20, 50 million, that's like, you know, chump change for them. And that could well be what might happen.

Adesoji Iginla (59:19.02)
Yeah they do.

Adesoji Iginla (59:31.156)
quarter of that.

Adesoji Iginla (59:41.868)
So what about the clean up though?

Milton Allimadi (59:44.703)
Because the law firm wants to get paid too.

Adesoji Iginla (59:47.52)
Hmm. So what about the clean up?

Milton Allimadi (59:49.931)
The law firm does not want to protect it. Laws that goes on and on and on, you know, because they can't get paid unless there's a settlement, correct?

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:02.146)
Correct, yeah, correct. So which means the people will be left holding the can then.

Milton Allimadi (01:00:08.997)
Absolutely. I don't see it coming to, I can't see the court making a ruling that would bankrupt a UK based publication, a corporation.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:24.296)
multinational,

Milton Allimadi (01:00:27.519)
I would be shocked. It could happen, but I would be highly surprised, right? There too many shareholders. Everybody has their finger in the pot somewhere.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:32.546)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (01:00:45.403)
So only.

a heavy ruling and fine or intervention by the Nigerian government could guarantee that there's a sufficient cleaning, which would cost probably a lot of money and which should be actually done because obviously that kind of damage is not going to be permanently confined to the Ogone region. I'm sure

And its impact has been expanding slowly. You know, it said 1989, so we are talking 36 years.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:24.822)
Yes, yeah, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (01:01:27.036)
In fact, what needs to be done is tell us how far the impact has now reached beginning from its location in the original source in Ogone. I would not be surprised if it spread to other regions in Nigeria.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:33.368)
Yeah, do it.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:42.23)
I mean the fact that it's even robbed people of their daily lives, their source of income, even their health is at risk, you know, from various cancers, you know.

Milton Allimadi (01:01:49.308)
That's right. Yeah.

Right, and obviously you do that in a country like Nigeria. You know, there's oil production in Canada, right? Canada is one of the leading producers. I don't think there's an Ogoni region type devastation in Canada. No. You see?

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:58.913)
Hmm

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:11.896)
I mean, when the Valdez went down in 1989 in Alaska, the cleanup was massive.

Milton Allimadi (01:02:18.364)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (01:02:23.846)
Yep.

Yeah, because you are affecting even fisheries, the environment and the fisheries that are going to be consumed by Americans, you know, they won't have that. So at the end of the day, it comes back to our weak.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:26.487)
So.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:38.962)
You

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:44.098)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:02:44.931)
and caring governments. I mean, they care, but they care for the wrong priorities, which is revenue from Shell.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:47.202)
So.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:50.646)
revenue from Shell. Wow. So yeah, as we wrap up, we've come to the end of another hopefully very informative episode. If this is your first time here, do like, share, subscribe, and, you know, do all the nice stuff. And yes, I should also say thank you to

a couple of super chats last week. was, when I got the notification, was, okay, somebody values what we're doing. And yes, thank you, thank you, thank you. And yes, keep it coming. It helps to keep the channel alive. And Brother Milton, thank you again for coming through as usual. yes, and for me,

Milton Allimadi (01:03:41.039)
My pleasure, comrade. The struggle continues. We want to leave a better Africa behind us. And the ones that come behind us, we want them to keep leaving a better Africa. And we'll get there.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:57.58)
Correct. In the words of Robots of Ukiwe, Africa is humanity and humanity is African. I say thank you very much for everyone for coming through and see you next week.