EP 3 Trump's Tales I African News Review 🌍

In this episode of African News Review, hosts Adesoji Iginla and Milton Allimadi discuss various pressing issues affecting Africa, including the legacy of apartheid in South Africa, Trump's controversial executive order regarding land ownership, the implications of China's military presence in Djibouti, the ongoing crisis in the Democratic Republic of Congo, and the historical context of reparations related to the British Empire.

The conversation emphasizes the importance of understanding history to address current inequities and the need for continued struggle for justice and equality.

Takeaways

*The struggle for justice is ongoing and complex.
*Understanding history is crucial for addressing current issues.
*Trump's policies reflect a misunderstanding of South African history.
*Land ownership disparities in South Africa are a legacy of apartheid.
*China's military presence in Djibouti raises questions about sovereignty.
*The situation in Congo is dire and requires urgent attention.
*Reparations for colonial injustices are still a contentious issue.
*Lord Hermer's comments highlight the need for historical accountability.
*The fight against racism and imperialism is far from over.
* Hope lies in education and awareness of historical injustices.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Tribute to Sam Nujoma
01:44 Trump's Controversial Executive Order on South Africa
07:40 The Historical Context of Land Ownership in South Africa
11:41 The Role of Media in Framing African Issues
18:02 China's Military Presence in Djibouti
27:43 Congo's Ongoing Crisis and the Role of M23
35:41 The Delusions of Conflict in Congo
36:33 Reactions to Lord Hamer's Controversial Statements
37:44 The Legacy of the British Empire
39:22 Confronting Historical Narratives
41:28 The Impact of Colonialism on Modern Society
43:55 Debating the British Empire's Contributions
46:08 Racism and the British Empire
48:32 Critiques of Historical Revisionism
50:30 The Need for Honest Historical Discourse
52:18 The Role of Language in Post-Colonial Identity
54:44 Hope Amidst Struggles for Justice
58:40 The Future of Historical Acknowledgment

Transcript

Adesoji Iginla (00:01.973)
Yes, greetings, greetings and welcome to another episode of African News Review. I'm your host as usual, Adesuji Igenla and with me is our ever present guest. He's a household name, comrade Milton Alimadi. is a journalist, broadcaster WBAI, Black Star News. He's also the author of Manufacturing Hate.

soon to be re-released, a book which formed the basis of this conversation that we've been having. And welcome, Brother Milton, and how have you been?

Milton Allimadi (00:44.918)
I'm good, comrade. Thank you so much for the work that you do. And thanks to all of our viewers and listeners. Karib.

Adesoji Iginla (00:53.217)
Now I'm humbled. I'm humbled. Getting kudos from a legend himself, I'm humbled. Yes, we were hit by devastating news on the African Liberation Front this week, the passing of Sam Yoma.

Milton Allimadi (01:09.464)
Yes, well, thank the ancestors. He was blessed with a long and productive life, a life of struggle, struggle rewarded with the liberation of his country. And always, of course, this is another moment where we also honor the international solidarity of the Sicilian brothers from Cuba who fought alongside our African Sicilian brothers.

Adesoji Iginla (01:13.761)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:31.969)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:38.993)
the great battle of Crito Cuenavon, 1987-88 destroyed the South African apartheid army. We led to the independence of Namibia, which had been occupied by South Africa and crossed off with Africa, led to the release of Mandela, led to the semi-independence of South Africa.

Adesoji Iginla (01:49.621)
Namibia and subsequent.

Adesoji Iginla (02:00.777)
Hmm. Speaking of semi-independence of South Africa, our first news comes from Washington via South Africa. And it's from the Washington Post. And it reads, Trump held aid to South Africa, claiming discrimination against Afrikaners. His executive order accuses South African government

of seizing property from white landowners and calling for their resettlement as refugees in the United States. And there you see Sarah Ramaphosa and the President of the United States. The story is filed in by Maria Louisa Paul. And I'll read the first part and get your initial assessment. President Donald Trump.

on Friday signed an executive order halting all USA to South Africa and directing his administration to develop a plan for resettling white Africans as Africanas as refugees citing what he called government-sponsored race-based discrimination against them. Is there any grounds for such a...

Milton Allimadi (03:22.004)
Well, it's good for his base, you know, good for his base is good for, you know, ignorant Europeans who voted for him. And of course, the danger is a lot of the Europeans in this country. Don't know the history of apartheid in South Africa. They don't know the history of racism in South Africa. They don't know the reason why Mandela had spent 27 years separated from his family and locked up in jail.

Adesoji Iginla (03:24.831)
Okay?

Adesoji Iginla (03:30.248)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (03:41.641)
Okay.

OK.

Adesoji Iginla (03:49.565)
in prison.

Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (03:52.491)
the Sharpville massacre, the Soweto massacre. You know, if they had an understanding of all the suffering, the struggle led by Winnie in the absence of Mandela, the Pan-Africanist Congress, all the young people who contributed to the liberation of South Africa. So, you know, it's painful that he is so...

Adesoji Iginla (04:07.83)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (04:11.861)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (04:18.599)
self-absorbed that the suffering and pain of others and their histories does not matter to it.

Adesoji Iginla (04:25.121)
does not matter to him. Okay. I'll continue. And it says the other.

Milton Allimadi (04:32.968)
You can't post on the one hand that saying, when Mandela visited the US in one of the trips that he made within the country, I loaned him my, I gave my jet, I left it at his disposal to use as it pleases. Can't even on the one hand say that, meaning you acknowledge the legacy of history of apartheid.

Adesoji Iginla (04:44.171)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (05:00.999)
and then come up with a position like this.

Adesoji Iginla (05:05.405)
Okay, so the order accuses South Africa's government of seizing ethnic minority Africanas agricultural property without compensation and enacting countless government policies designed to dismantle equal opportunity in employment, education, and business. Can I take a stop there and help me unravel that?

I'll read it again.

Milton Allimadi (06:01.506)
Yeah, it's, you know, as I said, it's like really defecating on the graves of the thousands of South Africans who died, the tens of thousands who died through the more than four centuries of exploitation that was formalized through apartheid in 1948. So it's really disgusting and revolting that they would resort to that type of language and turn history upside down. But what it might do actually is ironically,

Adesoji Iginla (06:09.173)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (06:22.272)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (06:31.761)
Because my biggest concern had been as you recall when we spoke some weeks ago we spoke on the situation in South Africa and I had said that given the influence that Elon Musk I was having over Trump. I would not be surprised that by the next election in South Africa that the DA the Democratic Alliance the apartheid like party

Adesoji Iginla (06:39.849)
What might happen?

Adesoji Iginla (06:48.545)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (06:55.168)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (07:02.177)
of Europeans and Africans that is now in partnership with the ANC could actually be the majority party by that time if things go this way. But now when you have these types of policies, actually it gives me more hope because this is the kind of fuel that parties like the economic freedom fighters and Jacob Zuma's Umkwante Wesseys need because now it really validates what they've been saying all along. Not only...

Adesoji Iginla (07:04.341)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (07:11.393)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (07:30.975)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (07:31.961)
the beneficiaries of apartheid in South Africa do not want to yield and build an equitable society. But now they're soliciting the assistance of a superpower like the United States to actually bully South Africa into not relinquishing these privileges that were acquired immorally, illegally, and violently. So he's actually assisting the economic freedom fighters and Jacob Zuma's Konto e Sizwe.

Adesoji Iginla (07:54.323)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (08:01.378)
So yeah, let him continue with those type of rhetoric.

Adesoji Iginla (08:04.585)
Hmm. Okay. Now, so continuing on from there, he says it also claims that South Africa's leader has taken, have taken aggressive positions towards the United States and its allies, pointing to the country's decision to accuse Israel of genocide and the International Court of Justice and its deepening ties with Iran.

Milton Allimadi (08:31.053)
Right, but that's a policy that actually started under the Biden administration. So that's just a continuation of policy that was already in place. As you recall, once...

Adesoji Iginla (08:36.159)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (08:39.775)
Yeah, but the Biden government did not go against them on the basis of the accusation of Israel on the genocide. Yes.

Milton Allimadi (08:51.172)
no, they were starting to already try to pass legislation in the US Congress to retaliate against South Africa. So just a continuation.

Adesoji Iginla (08:56.413)
Okay. Okay. Okay. So it's a, it's a continuation of the American project. Okay.

Milton Allimadi (09:04.374)
Right. And ironically, by aiding and abetting the genocide of the Palestinian people, that's why the Democrats lost. You know? The Democrats actually gave away their base in the hope that miraculously somehow, you know, Democrats would still, the base would still vote for them. It was, to me, irrational logic.

Adesoji Iginla (09:06.923)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (09:21.963)
stuff inflicted.

Milton Allimadi (09:34.051)
You

Adesoji Iginla (09:35.305)
hmm so so far would you say this article has been forthright or basically just

Milton Allimadi (09:43.939)
It's been, of course, right, but what is lacking is putting in the context what I've just been explaining, saying that the administration is totally ignoring the history and legacy of apartheid. By now, we should have heard about that legacy. You cannot bury that down in the story because this article is not mostly read by South Africans or people on the continent. This is primarily for the American audience. So it's very important by the third paragraph.

Adesoji Iginla (09:55.306)
of the place.

Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (10:07.233)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (10:13.645)
to start going into the legacy and the history of apartheid and why it is that a so-called ethnic minority Africanas are in control of more than 70 % of the land. When Europeans and Africans, both African and English speaking combined, make up only 8 % of the population. That's very critical. That should come out very quickly, either in the second or third paragraph.

Adesoji Iginla (10:34.912)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (10:38.579)
Okay. Okay. Let's continue. Let's continue and see if we... So now we're in the second or four pages article. So the United States cannot support the government, that's position of the Trump's government, cannot support the government of South Africa's commission of rights violation in its country or its undermining US foreign policy, which poses national security threats.

to our nation, our allies, our African partners, and our interests, the other states. South Africa has increasingly found itself in Trump's crosshairs, as he has claimed without evidence that the government is seizing white-owned land and persecuting white farmers, the Washington Post previously reported. The subject of Trump's criticism appears to be a recent law that allows land expropriation

without compensation in rare cases. However, South African officials have said the policy is part of an effort to address disparities left by apartheid, a system that for decades barred South Africans from owning land. So here we go. Land ownership in South Africa remains one of the starkest legacies of apartheid.

White South Africans who make up about 8 % of the population own about three quarters of the country's farmland, while Black South Africans who make up 80 % of the population owns just 4 % according to the country's 2017 land audit.

Milton Allimadi (12:22.001)
Yeah, I mean, this is fine, but why are we hearing it now in the story? As you know, the way stories are framed has impacts, right? And that's how people remember stories, the way it's framed, what initially hits you first as you're reading the article, or whether it's being broadcast on television or on radio, right? Because if somebody is announcing this on radio or TV and following this guideline,

Adesoji Iginla (12:28.231)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (12:33.739)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (12:38.016)
Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (12:44.566)
Yep.

Milton Allimadi (12:50.407)
it will come much later in the story. So even if you are listening to it audio or you're watching it, you know, on a television broadcast, this information is coming lead. This lead is being buried. This should be very high up in any story. Trump administration is saying this, but here are the facts on the ground in South Africa. And then you build the rest of the story on that premise, you know?

Adesoji Iginla (13:06.145)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (13:12.565)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (13:19.009)
and it could possibly be a question of.

Milton Allimadi (13:21.093)
And by now, you have some strong quotes from people countering these statements. You're just taking pieces from this very provocative and reactionary statement and piecing it here and there in the article without getting a knowledgeable African to say, you know, this is preposterous, this is turning history upside down, given the situation on the ground in South Africa. You see?

Adesoji Iginla (13:24.649)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (13:45.637)
Mm, mm, mm, mm. Okay. That said, I mean, in terms of laws, I think it's important that we give context to, like you said, to what South Africans on the ground actually experience in terms of day-to-day activity. In pulling up the story, this story, I also came in contact with this.

and I would share. And it's basically a rule of laws that the South African Ministry of Justice formulated during apartheid. And it reads, okay, so it says, anyone disobeying these laws will be imprisoned, fined, or whipped. All Africans over the age of 16 must produce a past book on demand by a policeman. You remember the past laws?

Under no circumstances may an employer pay Africans the same rates as white persons, even if they do the same work and work for the same hours. No Africans may strike for any reason whatsoever. Any African who takes a job outside his town, even if he lived there for 20 years, must leave that town within 72 hours. That is

Milton Allimadi (15:11.93)
Yeah, this is the Nazi regime which apartheid was, you know, framed after, right.

Adesoji Iginla (15:12.039)
Unless they have... gone.

Adesoji Iginla (15:17.387)
frame door around. Yes. So only gun.

Milton Allimadi (15:21.466)
And here's the most troubling thing actually, to be honest with you. The lack of appreciation of the humanity of Africans. And I always ask people this, try to reverse the history. African imperialists go to England, kill Europeans, take over their land, impose a racist system of African black supremacy in...

Adesoji Iginla (15:30.657)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (15:44.608)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (15:48.011)
on them.

Milton Allimadi (15:50.491)
in England, and then historically at some point, the system collapses. Do you think 30 years later, an African minority in England would still be controlling 70 % of the land?

Adesoji Iginla (15:50.593)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (16:07.093)
Hmm

Milton Allimadi (16:08.399)
they would be lucky to be enjoying their life. Let's be serious. So Africa is the spiritual and human compassion of Africans being taken for granted and being abused and being defecated upon. That's what they're doing.

Milton Allimadi (16:30.134)
abusing our humanity constantly again and again and again.

Adesoji Iginla (16:38.581)
just I'll just take one more part of that rule. There's a part here. No person may have sexual relations with an African, colored or Indian person and vice versa. You remember the book written by Trevor Noah, Born a Crime. That's that's it. And then there's one last part here, where no African may buy land or own property anywhere in the

Milton Allimadi (16:55.161)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (17:08.511)
Republic. Under no circumstance may a non-white person use facilities set aside for the use of white persons. Finally, this harks back to Jim Crow days in post-Reconstruction in the United States. No white man may teach an African servant to read by the others of the South African Ministry of Justice.

Milton Allimadi (17:36.172)
Go.

Adesoji Iginla (17:37.449)
Let us sink in.

And this is the starting ground for most South Africans in order to regain their humanity. And yet you have somebody coming in upending all thoughts of what seems normal and rational and logical justice on the basis of a whim.

Milton Allimadi (18:07.224)
Well, as I said, I'm not going to repeat myself. As I said, let him continue along that line. He's only going to embolden and empower the economic freedom fighters and Umcoto, which is sometimes what they need anyway. They need a rationalization for the policies that they're advocating. And Donald Trump is the best gift for that, apparently.

Adesoji Iginla (18:07.489)
I mean, it's...

Adesoji Iginla (18:12.757)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (18:16.095)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (18:20.757)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (18:29.761)
Okay, this is the time we put books forward. And there is one book that actually captures that period in time and is from no other than the legend himself, Gerald Horne, and it's titled Why Supremacy Confronted. And it gives you a run through about all of that history of that time period before

Milton Allimadi (18:48.512)
Yes.

Thank you.

Adesoji Iginla (18:59.947)
during and after. This is a powerful book and it's titled White Supremacy Confronted by Gerard Horn. And, well, still writing, he's a legend. And so, speaking of having a base of understanding, we go to military bases.

Milton Allimadi (19:01.439)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (19:09.417)
the great professor.

Adesoji Iginla (19:26.097)
And for our next story, we go to Radio France International. And the story is Historic.

historic Chinese military base to open in the Horn of Africa. China is negotiating a military base in the strategic port of Djibouti, an historical development that would see the US and China each have bases in the small nation that guards the entrance to the Red Sea and the Suez Canal. President Ismael Omar Gwell said that discussions were ongoing and that Beijing is welcome.

That's President Güell there.

Milton Allimadi (20:07.992)
But I was under the impression that the Chinese actually already had a base.

Adesoji Iginla (20:12.609)
No, They were muting one, but now it's becoming concrete, as you will see in the course of the story. That was my original thoughts as well. But then only to find that they were molling about it, but eventually maybe post, what's it called? They suddenly realized they had to go in. So I would read.

Djibouti is already home to Camp Lemmonier, the military headquarters used by US special forces for covert, anti-terror and other operations in Yemen, in Africa. France, the former colonial master, and Japan already have bases in the port, which were used by many foreign navies to fight piracy in neighboring Somalia.

Jibuti, France's presence is old and the Americans found that the position of Djibouti could help in the fight against terrorism in the region, Guelm told AFP. The Japanese want to protect themselves from piracy. Now the Chinese also want to protect their interests and they are welcome. China refused to confirm or deny on Monday that it was establishing a military base in the Horn of Africa. It goes on to say maintenance of peace and stability in the region

is in line with the interest of related countries, Foreign Ministry spokeswoman, Wan Chuling, told reporters. It is also the common aspiration of Djibouti, China and other countries in the world. China signed a security and defense agreement with Djibouti in February 2014, but a military base in Djibouti, the first in Africa, would definitely be historic, according to David Sheen.

a former US ambassador to Ethiopia. It goes on to say, China is reportedly considering a permanent military base in Obok, Djibouti's northern port city. China clearly has a role, goal of building a blue water navy, which means it will have some points go well beyond the East coast of Africa, the Western Indian Ocean, and it has to think long term about how it will be able to service its naval vessels

Adesoji Iginla (22:32.103)
they go further and further he explains. So my question to you would be in terms of sovereignty how does that play for Djibouti first and foremost?

Milton Allimadi (22:44.334)
Djibouti is not a sovereign country. So it's only sovereign on paper, unfortunately. I mean, there are degrees of sovereignty and Djibouti certainly is not, you know, one of the African countries that we can say sovereign. And this is not, of course, insulting our sisters and brothers in Djibouti. It's just the nature of imperialism. Imperialism has a very strong and solid hold.

Adesoji Iginla (22:47.699)
sorry, wrong question.

Adesoji Iginla (22:57.032)
You

Adesoji Iginla (23:03.039)
Hmm... G-Booty.

Milton Allimadi (23:14.094)
because Djibouti, course, is also afraid of annexation, you see? Annexation by its neighbors, including, it's also the regional powers, including Ethiopia, because Djibouti realizes that Ethiopia has always been salivating to have a port, because it's landlocked, you see?

Adesoji Iginla (23:31.393)
is to be on once and access to the sea.

Adesoji Iginla (23:43.186)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (23:43.511)
So as a result, Djibouti has always had very solid either French presence, US presence, and now Chinese presence as well. The sad thing is that for China, you know China has always used a different strategy in terms of its penetration in Africa. It's used its economic cloud.

Adesoji Iginla (23:51.541)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (24:11.109)
and the expanded business relations and trade relations between China and Africa to get ahead of the West, ahead of the Western European countries, as well as the United States. So it seems to me that it's not so much as China wanting to compete militarily against the United States in Africa. It seems that it's much more perhaps to reinforce China's

commercial interests in the Indian Ocean. And of course, you know, China is one of the many countries, including the Western countries, including the Arab countries, India and other countries that have been piracy. They call the Somali the pirates when they're the ones actually that are stealing billions of dollars worth of fish

Adesoji Iginla (24:42.058)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (24:54.433)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (25:08.788)
and other products from the waters that should belong rightfully to the people of Somalia.

Adesoji Iginla (25:15.763)
and dumping waste in the sea as well.

Milton Allimadi (25:17.022)
and dapping ways. So it seems to me it's much more out of commercial ambitions and aspirations rather than wanting any military confrontation or competition against the United States.

Adesoji Iginla (25:31.765)
Mm. Mm. Okay.

Milton Allimadi (25:33.083)
I guess France for that matter.

Adesoji Iginla (25:36.225)
Okay, I would take one more part here. It says Camp Le Noir home to, well, you've sort of counted that in terms of confrontation would not be had. that is then this part here, a new China deep sea port in Djibouti will be a new pearl in China string of pearl strategy, according to analyst and writer Robert Mason, author of the International Politics of the Arab Spring.

It will provide boost to China's sphere of influence, which already extends from the South Chinese Sea along the West Coast of Myanmar to the Arabian Sea coastal port of Guadal, Pakistan, a major destination in the China-Pakistan economic corridor. So like you said, it's basically just a way of shoring up their economic interests, not so much as, you know, saber rattling.

Milton Allimadi (26:28.859)
Absolutely.

Adesoji Iginla (26:34.428)
as the West would have us think.

Milton Allimadi (26:37.81)
Absolutely.

Adesoji Iginla (26:39.105)
Mm. OK. So one final point on that. How does that sit? You know where I'm going with this. How does that sit with Nkrumah's thoughts on neocolonialism? Because if you have all these bases,

Milton Allimadi (26:58.502)
Well, I mean, we can.

Adesoji Iginla (27:04.393)
Okay fine.

Milton Allimadi (27:04.897)
No, but the United States has more than 80 bases spread over the African continent. So, you know, I mean, China is a latecomer in that respect, and China is not there to really try to sustain a regime in power, unlike the United States in many cases where it has bases in African countries. The regime in Djibouti is already sustained by France anyway.

Adesoji Iginla (27:22.305)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (27:33.184)
Hmm

Milton Allimadi (27:33.52)
France and the United States. But it's, know, rather than just isolating Djibouti alone, this is an occasion that we really should look at the entire African continent. Which African country really enjoys complete sovereignty? I mean, the closest example, I think, was of course, Libya. You see?

Adesoji Iginla (27:35.713)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (28:00.729)
because Libya control its oil production. You see? Once you control your production and your assets, that to me is a measure of sovereignty. So let's contrast with South Africa, for example. South Africa with all its minerals. Who owns all those minerals? Who owns the mines? You see? South Africa is not in control of its sovereignty because it's not in control of its production.

Adesoji Iginla (28:19.937)
European economic interest.

Adesoji Iginla (28:28.833)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (28:28.9)
Libya was the closest example. So Djibouti really is minor compared to all the other major countries like South Africa, for example. South Africa does not control its sovereignty because it does not control its production. I can be a little more sympathetic to poor little Djibouti.

Adesoji Iginla (28:52.865)
Okay, so all the best to Djibouti is what you're saying.

Milton Allimadi (29:00.182)
Yes, absolutely. I would rather pick on giants like Nigeria first, you know, Ghana, all those larger countries before I pick on Djibouti, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (29:12.359)
Okay, okay, okay. And okay, so that said, picking on foes and fighting wars and fighting battles, some necessary, some totally unnecessary. We've been talking about Congo of recent, and it's imperative that we our focus on the place in the course of all our deliberations.

Milton Allimadi (29:32.79)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (29:40.32)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (29:40.629)
going forward, at least when it's of substance. Now, one of the key players in the Congo present crisis has been Cornel Yanga. And your paper or your magazine of choice, The Economist, has done a special on him. And I would share. And it reads,

Adesoji Iginla (30:12.019)
A leader of Congo's rebels, they're still using their term, vows to fight on. It is not clear that the recent truce in Congo we hold, and that's Cornell Iyenga. So the story reads, Cornell Iyenga sits in an armchair in a five-star hotel in Goma. Yeah, some sort of rebel officer he is. The largest city in Eastern

Democratic Republic of Congo and stretches out his hand. Thank you for embracing the terrorists, he jokes to laughter from his entourage. Mr. Nyanga pictured is the head of the Alliance Fluive Congo, AFC, the political arm of M23, an armed group led by Congolese Tutsis and backed by next door Rwanda. Last week, M23 and Rwanda captured Goma after a rapid offensive that featured drones

and heavy artillery that shattered Congolese defences. The UN says at least 900 people were killed, though some estimates put the death toll closer to 3,000. The escalation in fighting risked sparking a regional war. The first, the four other Ami'i countries that came to Congo's aid also failed to rebel the invaders.

Can you just speak to this first part before we continue?

Milton Allimadi (31:41.279)
Well, mean, the Economist had been doing much better coverage on the Congo previously, but this article is very similar to the kind of propaganda piece that the BBC has been publishing about this conflict. This guy is not a leader of any rebel movement. He's the puppet of Paul Kagame, General Paul Kagame.

Adesoji Iginla (31:49.3)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (31:54.163)
You

Adesoji Iginla (31:58.593)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (32:08.414)
got me. Yep.

Milton Allimadi (32:10.336)
Kagame is the puppet master. So to try to humanize this guy and in light of, I mean, this is mind boggling. Almost in passing, you mentioned the number of people that have been killed. It could be 3,000.

Adesoji Iginla (32:33.205)
focusing on him.

Milton Allimadi (32:38.415)
you start off with the lead of this guy joking that, this is the so-called terrorists they're talking about. And you're quoting the laughter by his comrades, as if this is something to be joking about, given the toll of the death. So the framing of the article itself is very chilling. And I don't know whether this is a European who is writing it or an African.

Adesoji Iginla (32:55.092)
Hmm

Milton Allimadi (33:08.104)
who is writing it, but it doesn't matter whether you're European or African, it shows a level of disconnect, really. And as you say, utter contempt for the lives of Africans. Now we are hearing stories about women who were raped, women who were burned alive, and in all that context, you really think that

Adesoji Iginla (33:14.571)
the contempt.

Adesoji Iginla (33:32.097)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (33:34.962)
This is the type of appropriate article that belongs here at this stage of this crisis. And no editor said, listen, I think this tone, this cavalier, you're nonchalant, it's not appropriate at this time. You know, what can I say? It speaks more to the lack of compassion and humanity toward Africans than to anything else, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (34:02.603)
Yes, yes. OK, I'll continue. It says.

This is the part that got me the most. Mr. Nyangyas, who has become the public figurehead of M23, strikes a relaxed tone. We want to wage a clean war. He insists, explaining that M23 pushed into Goma after years of lazing siege to it because attacks from Congolese forces and their allies around the city. What does it mean by we want to wage a clean war?

Milton Allimadi (34:39.055)
I mean, you know, that was left for the writer of this article to explain to us. And obviously, it is not there at all. Remember, a few weeks ago, we were discussing quotes. And this quote was from a BBC article. And it was one of the so-called M23 leaders, you know, saying the Congolese government had not lived up to the promises of the peace agreement that had reintegrated them into the national army.

Adesoji Iginla (34:54.934)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (35:08.667)
when in fact the truth was the truth. The opposite was the truth. The M23 had abandoned that arrangement by deserting from the National Army. And yet that quote was not allowed, was not challenged by the author. It was just allowed to free float, so to speak. Similarly here we have preposterous quotes, just free floating. It just told us that

UN estimates that 3,000 people may have been killed, and you allow the guy to say, we want to wage a clean war. And you don't say wait. This is not adding up with the reality on the ground. You see? So we want all these writers to constantly be checking themselves, right? Checking themselves, and the only way you can force them to check themselves is by calling them out, you know?

Adesoji Iginla (35:53.643)
Yep. Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (36:02.123)
Yeah, yeah. I'll take one final part from it and it's this. Mr. Yanga claims M23's fight is a local one. Our vocation is the absence of the state, he explains. We're Congolese. We have problems and demands that are Congolese. This includes, he says, ending the corrupt rule of Congo's president, Tishikedi, his repression of the political opposition.

above all the exclusion of some ethnic communities, especially the Tutsis. Mr. Nyanga is not a Tutsi and has vowed to go as far as Congo's capital Kinshasa in pursuit of these aims. The cause is such that our young people may advance until the last drop of blood.

Milton Allimadi (36:51.8)
Yeah, there's the same nonsensical propaganda, which is chilling, know, I'd belabor the point, but there's just a lack of, utter lack of compassion to the value of African lives, you know, allowing this nonsensical quotes to maintain. He's fighting on behalf of Tutsis. It's, that's a propaganda that's already been exposed. It's not true. General Niyawasa, who was Kagame's military chief of staff,

Adesoji Iginla (36:58.847)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (37:05.632)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (37:20.779)
and is now exiled in South Africa, the one he tried to kill on about four or five occasions. I said, this is just propaganda. There are prominent atuzis in the military and government establishment in Congo. So that is not true. So that's just propaganda. And for the fact, and for his delusion that he's going to carry this battle to Kichasa,

Adesoji Iginla (37:24.075)
Thank you.

You

Adesoji Iginla (37:40.608)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (37:47.571)
fight to ukiyasha

Milton Allimadi (37:49.143)
That's just utter delusion because, you know, any attempt to do that is actually going to backfire in a very bad way because they will force South Africa's hands. South Africa will have to make a full deployment. Tanzania will probably make a full deployment and they will repel them again, just as they did in 2012.

Adesoji Iginla (38:08.809)
yep and they might actually then crush them finally

Milton Allimadi (38:13.09)
Absolutely.

Adesoji Iginla (38:15.957)
Yes, okay. That brings us to the end of that story. But for in the UK, there has been a story making the rounds. People are literally foaming at the mouth. It's not often.

Milton Allimadi (38:33.311)
forming with happiness or sadness. It all depends on who you are.

Adesoji Iginla (38:39.745)
It depends on which side you are when you read this article. It is hilarious. mean, there has not been an engagement with a news article like this extensively. One is the fact that, let me not even go, let's just go to, first and foremost, set the scene. The paper comes, it's the telegraph.

Now for those who are not aware, the telegraph is effectively the paper of the establishment. It doesn't get more establishment than this.

Lord Herman calls British Empire deeply racist and fought for reparations. Who is L-

Milton Allimadi (39:26.547)
Thank you, Lord.

Adesoji Iginla (39:31.787)
Who is Lord Herman? Lord Herman just happens to be the attorney general of the United Kingdom. he said, attorney general said, all children should be made to learn about the empire's legacy of violence. As at the time I copied this post, this is the amount of people.

Milton Allimadi (39:40.938)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (40:01.035)
that have commented on it. 788.

Milton Allimadi (40:03.28)
How many is that? can't see from here.

Milton Allimadi (40:08.496)
and it's probably going up by now.

Adesoji Iginla (40:10.497)
he would have gone up definitely. Now for those who don't know who Lord Hema is, that's the gentleman right there. And lemme go on.

Milton Allimadi (40:20.018)
But you know what? think he's right. And that is the problem. And the problem is not so much the ordinary people. The ordinary people would actually benefit tremendously by learning this history in the United Kingdom, in France, in Portugal, in Belgium, in Italy, in the United States. That is the path toward creating

Adesoji Iginla (40:33.6)
He

Adesoji Iginla (40:41.857)
you

Milton Allimadi (40:49.296)
the world that we need for the present and for the future. And at some point, after much more destruction, much more bloodshed, much more stalemates, at some point, in order to preserve our existence and human beings on this earth, that is the conclusion that people are going to arrive at.

Adesoji Iginla (40:51.979)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (41:01.323)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (41:06.187)
Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (41:18.432)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (41:19.32)
It must be much, much later when in fact it could be much, much sooner and early. So people like Northam he's right. This is a European who's assessed the history and realized that we can never build a better world if we try to pretend that history away. You see, part of the support.

Adesoji Iginla (41:25.899)
Sooner.

Adesoji Iginla (41:30.453)
Adesoji Iginla (41:43.804)
Mm. Mm.

Milton Allimadi (41:49.261)
that a person like Donald Trump has is Europeans who want to live the false narrative that that history never occurred, pretended away so we don't have to address it and deal with it. So you may see superficial harmony, but when an arsonist like Donald Trump comes on the scene,

Adesoji Iginla (41:59.179)
Hmm. Yep.

Milton Allimadi (42:16.417)
and say, let's keep the native where they belong. People who yesterday were pretending to be living in a harmonious environment, you know, that repressed feeling suddenly erupts and comes to the fore. You see? Of course they know that history. But it's the denial. It's thinking that it's easier to live in denial than to address that history.

Adesoji Iginla (42:34.017)
Hmm. Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (42:47.038)
it's unacceptable because the products of those histories will keep showing up, you see, and manifest themselves. And you can't kill all of them. You can't lock all of them in jail. You can't return all of them to Rwanda, which you can't anymore anyway. You can't allow them to drown in the oceans. You simply cannot make them disappear, just like you cannot make that history disappear. So this is what he's talking about.

Adesoji Iginla (42:53.407)
Yep. And you keep exactly. you keep.

Milton Allimadi (43:17.197)
And I agree with him without even having to listen to the details. I agree with him 100%.

Adesoji Iginla (43:18.837)
Okay. no, you need to. No, you need to. I can't listen to your details.

Milton Allimadi (43:24.149)
I will, I agree with him. From the premise alone, he's in the right direction, you know?

Adesoji Iginla (43:28.033)
you

You know when you're reading something and you're like okay then I remember who he was but we will find out who he was in the paper. So it continues. The attorney general has described almost every element of the British Empire as racist and revealed he fought to get reparations. Lord Hemmer speaking on a podcast for his former

Milton Allimadi (43:32.823)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (43:55.361)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (44:00.961)
Chambers Matrix said the British Empire enforced a racial superiority that allows you to treat entire populations like school children. He said almost every element of the empire was racist and that all children should be made to learn about its legacy of violence. Lord Hamer's comments led Robert Jenrick

Milton Allimadi (44:13.229)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (44:26.486)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (44:30.923)
For those who don't know, Robert Jenrick contested the leader of the Conservative Party with Kemibadun Okuyes, and he got the role of Shadow Justice Secretary. To describe him as Jeremy Corbyn in a Barristers Week, Jeremy Corbyn is the socialist who used to lead the Labour Party, but again was undermined as an enemy of the state, and effectively was pushed out.

in a palace coup. In Lord Hemers, Stammer, Stammer is the head of the government, he's the prime minister at the moment, had brought back Colby in Embarrasseders Week. He is pro, describing Hemmer here, he is pro boycotting Israel, supports reparation, celebrates just oil echo zealots and his anti-border control. His far left political views are a risk.

our country's security. He should be nowhere near the government. That's Robert Jenrick speaking. Why would he say he is, before you go, why would he say he is pro-boycott in Israel? He was the one that said once the United Kingdom will honor the decision of the International Court of Justice in terms of the warrant of arrest. Go on, you were saying.

Milton Allimadi (45:35.661)
you.

Milton Allimadi (45:56.589)
And this guy thinks that that should be an issue. mean, you know, regime that may have killed a hundred thousand Palestinians, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (46:02.369)
That's what Rob Janrik thinks. He thinks that should be an issue.

Adesoji Iginla (46:13.313)
Yeah. No, he thinks if he whips that in, obviously that would bring in the so-called angry mob and then they can set on him. But I'll continue with the piece. And it goes on to say, in 2013, Lord Hammer helped force the Khonsati government to pay out 19.9 million in reparations to more than 5,000 Kenyans.

seeking damages for abuse under the British rule between 1952 and 1962. Could you give context to that?

Milton Allimadi (46:52.842)
That's very excellent. That's when they sued in the High Court, right? The survivors of the torture and abuses by the colonial regime when they suppressed the liberation struggle led by the Kenyan land and freedom army, demonized and denigrated as the so-called Mao Mao by the British, you know?

Adesoji Iginla (46:58.353)
Yeah, the Royal Court of Justice. Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (47:06.751)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (47:13.215)
I don't know me yet.

Adesoji Iginla (47:18.131)
Now, mouth, Mm-hmm, yep.

Milton Allimadi (47:21.278)
That was a piece of justice, not the whole of justice, but it was a piece of justice and it was a good one and an appropriate piece. So basically this article is about somebody who wants to build a real world and being countered by comments from reactionaries and those who would want to rewrite history. That's what the article is about.

Adesoji Iginla (47:27.041)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (47:45.738)
You

Okay, I'll come to you. Every line here is incendiary. you will see all of them. So the Prime Minister's legal chief, which is the attorney general, has also offered guidance to Caribbean nations seeking reparations for historical...

Milton Allimadi (48:07.108)
This is the kind of guy I can actually sit down and have lunch with and have good meaningful conversations.

Adesoji Iginla (48:09.601)
You

Adesoji Iginla (48:15.969)
Okay, go on. Speaking on the Matrix Law podcast in 2022, he said, racism impacted almost every element of the British Empire. The attorney general said, you go on, you wanna say something? You wanna say something?

Milton Allimadi (48:25.976)
Absolutely.

Milton Allimadi (48:32.26)
No, no, I said absolutely, 100%. Listen, when you stop by establishing the premise that merely because I'm European, I'm superior to you, everything else, of course, is going to be predicated on that racism. So he's right. How can it be otherwise? Every aspect, you know, when we encounter each other physically and meet, I have to defer to you automatically.

Adesoji Iginla (48:43.52)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (48:50.443)
Mm-hmm. Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (48:59.477)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (49:02.244)
You know, whether you're a mentally challenged person or not, it doesn't matter. And I'm healthy in my mind. It doesn't matter. The mere fact that you are European, you're somehow automatically superior. And that's what it means. And I agree with him. Absolutely.

Adesoji Iginla (49:07.017)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep.

Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (49:17.568)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm. Okay, go on. So speaking on the Matrix Law podcast in 2022, he said racism impacted almost every element of the British Empire. The attorney general said Britain was a country where notions of empire remained remains a good thing and that it was premised on a deeply racist assumption that other nations are not as good as us. He said.

We seem to have this kind of myopia in this country, or certainly a collective amnesia when it comes to our collective past. In order to buy into this notion of British exceptionalism, you can only do that if you ignore history.

Milton Allimadi (50:05.15)
know what's so amazing about you can take that exact quote and just take out, you know, British or Britain, and insert the United States, and you won't have to change a word in that quote.

Adesoji Iginla (50:15.133)
Mm-hmm. What this takes?

Adesoji Iginla (50:21.345)
Okay, let me continue. So the pushback, obviously, classic nasty left-wing view of life. Sir Ian Duncan Smith, are former conservative leader suggested the attorney general should learn to keep his mouth shut. Add in.

Milton Allimadi (50:39.902)
No, he should speak much more often and more people should speak like that. He's wrong.

Adesoji Iginla (50:46.081)
it is a classic nasty left-wing view of life. There is a huge amount that the British brought to the world which has benefited the world dramatically. Care to speak to that?

Milton Allimadi (50:57.442)
the ledger of genocide outweighs all of that. Obviously he has not read Rodney's How Europe Underdeveloped Africa. Rodney evaluated and weighed the ledger and said colonialism and penalism was a one-armed bandit.

Adesoji Iginla (51:07.83)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (51:15.637)
Yes. And he also negated to add that the idea of a concentration camp was a British invention that at the Nuremberg trials, one of the generals there said, why are you blaming us? We are only perfecting what you introduced. the British would first of all use that idea during the Boer Wars with the South Africans.

Milton Allimadi (51:23.97)
Absolutely.

Adesoji Iginla (51:44.757)
would later introduce the same idea, guess where, in Kenya. And if people want to read about it, you could read Caroline Elkins. You can see the picture there, Imperial Reckoning.

Milton Allimadi (51:52.63)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (52:02.658)
And of course, there are descendants that already practiced it in the United States when they exterminated the indigenous populations as well.

Adesoji Iginla (52:03.307)
So.

Adesoji Iginla (52:11.214)
There we go. There we go. So I'll continue. it says, so another one of his pushbacks comes from Richard Teese, the deputy leader of the reformed UK. That's Nigel Farage's party. Said Lord Hamer clearly hates Britain and is a clear and present danger to our country.

Milton Allimadi (52:37.908)
No, he hates racist Britain.

Adesoji Iginla (52:40.449)
you

Milton Allimadi (52:42.656)
He left out one word.

Adesoji Iginla (52:42.995)
It continues.

He continues, if these buffoons despise Britain so much, they should not be serving in government. We need ministers that believe in Britain, appreciate what we have given the world. That is a contribution to be celebrated, not denigrated, added Mr. Tease. Scholars were also critical of the comments, arguing labelling the empire as inherently racist, neglected many of its positive legacies. Empire

was an act of modernization. Professor Loris Goldman, an emeritus fellow in history at Oxford University said, Lord Hemmo's interpretation would have been entirely alien to those living under colonial rule.

Milton Allimadi (53:33.794)
Easy for a European to say. Who's not the one being colonized, you know? And they contacted me, that's exactly what would have been my quote, know?

Adesoji Iginla (53:44.193)
They loved it!

Adesoji Iginla (53:51.595)
Yeah, they loved it. We loved it. He told the Telegraph, it is better not to think about the history in terms of good and bad, blame and praise. You will have to accept all the time that mistakes were made and things were done. Professor Goldman said that the empire was an act of modernization, which exported the rule of law, representative institutions, economic system.

Milton Allimadi (54:14.304)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (54:20.933)
And above all, the one I'm speaking right now, the English language. He said these developments have a particularly positive impact in countries such as India.

Milton Allimadi (54:34.133)
No, does not. In fact, it's withholding India's development. And to the extent that India has developed, it's based on what amount of its traditional cultures it had been able to maintain. as in the case with China as well. China, to the extent that China has developed, been able to develop because it's using

Adesoji Iginla (54:40.001)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (55:04.222)
the Chinese culture and Chinese history and Chinese legacies that survive the colonial penetration. Unfortunately, in many African countries, that was not the case. And that is why Amilcar Cabral used to constantly talk about going back to the source, going back to our histories, and embracing the traditions that we had and the path that we had been pursuing in history.

Adesoji Iginla (55:14.561)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (55:33.982)
before it was hijacked by colonialism. So China is able now to embrace a half market-based, half control-based economic system. But it's not confused by any Western cultures, any Western languages, any Western institutions. It has its own forms of government, and it's working for China.

Adesoji Iginla (55:49.215)
Yeah, that works.

Adesoji Iginla (56:02.081)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (56:03.112)
and building wealth and prosperity. African countries, many of them have very confused systems. They're still dealing with their legacies of language. They're dealing with legacies of institutions, such as parliaments, where in some cases, brilliant people who come from the grassroots are not even allowed to be members of those institutions because they cannot speak a European language. Think about that.

Adesoji Iginla (56:06.239)
Mm. Mm.

Milton Allimadi (56:32.583)
In China, are they denying brilliant Chinese from being in leadership positions in the government and in parliament because they can't speak English or French? Of course not. They're elected because they speak Chinese and they articulate their intelligence in Chinese. So they have the best leaders emerging through the systems that they have. We're eliminating some of our best leaders because they can't speak French, because they can't speak English, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (56:59.645)
English yeah

Milton Allimadi (57:02.47)
like the Queen's version, you know? So in fact, he's revealing in saying what he's saying, the so-called squalor. He's actually highlighting how destructive colonialism and imperialism was, particularly when it comes to Africa.

Adesoji Iginla (57:22.838)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, let me finish this article.

Milton Allimadi (57:26.686)
If it was that successful, we would not have to have a debate. African countries would be developed. So why is it that they are not developed? It's not like when they left, particularly in the 1960s, they left developed countries. No. So colonialism failed to develop that. So how could you say colonialism was beneficial? You know?

Adesoji Iginla (57:45.27)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (57:52.337)
I would, let's, I'll read a bit more. It says, this is still the professor, Professor Goldman. Our public figures are far too quick to give their opinions. They know very little. He's talking to a legal scholar. He's referring to a legal scholar.

Milton Allimadi (58:13.11)
But it's not so much him. It is the publication itself. It's the telegraph. Is this the only scholar alive? You could not find a scholar to say the things that I've been saying today. So they don't even pretend that they want balance. And they allege that one of the essence of Western journalism is

Adesoji Iginla (58:23.617)
You

Adesoji Iginla (58:28.743)
Of course you can, but...

Adesoji Iginla (58:34.581)
The likes of

Milton Allimadi (58:41.937)
you know, so-called objectivity, you know, nonsense, you know, not even pretending that there's another scholar who might have a different view from Professor So-and-so.

Adesoji Iginla (58:46.817)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (58:54.765)
Mm-hmm. Okay. Our public figures are far too quick to give their opinions. They really know very little. When you point to possible scholars that could have given a counterbalance to this, one that comes to mind is Professor Akim Abdi. The one who wrote the, I mean, he's wrote multiple books on the issue of colonialism and Britain's stuff, but he's been deplatformed. His school is...

His college has been canceled, the University of Chichester. yeah, so Professor Nigel Biggar, who specializes in imperial studies at Oxford, added, contrary to Cartoonish simplifications, the 400 year long British Empire contained a variety of views. He said at the time, Britons may have felt superior because of the empire's

scientific and technological advances. Sometimes that made British colonialists arrogant. Well, okay. But it also led them to emancipate African, God, in 1807 and grant the vote to Native Canadians, South African blacks. When did he do that? And New York's, New Zealand's Maori on the assumption that they were capable of becoming equal citizens in countries

that are not among the most prosperous, most liberal, and least racist. Okay, so first, 1807. Let's talk about that one. You want to go first?

Milton Allimadi (01:00:33.374)
Not really. I mean, this is just an ugly rewriting of history that I think we give them actually much more legitimacy by overly discussing the racist and reactionary views. I mean, how can you liberate people that you yourself have been exploiting, beginning from enslaving them, right? And then you're celebrating that, we are the ones that liberated them. Liberated them from who? From yourself? How can the jailer

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:46.944)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:53.937)
Mm, mm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:58.944)
Mmm.

Hahaha!

Milton Allimadi (01:01:03.374)
How can the jailer say I'm freeing somebody so therefore I should be given some credit and celebrated as well? I mean, it's just mind boggling, you know?

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:11.457)
It reminds me of the quote from Malcolm X when he says, how could you stick a nine inch blade into my back and pull it back six inches and you expect me to be grateful? Who put the blade there in the first place?

Milton Allimadi (01:01:22.333)
Absolutely. Yes. Yes, that was brilliant, actually. That was brilliant by Marco, you know?

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:34.293)
Yeah, I mean, the 1807 stuff, that is easily debunked because when France lost Haiti, Britain tried to go back in, but they were also defeated. And on the issue of emancipating African slaves, they didn't do it out of their own altruistic, they actually compensated slavers. You can read about that in Michael Taylor's book, The Interest.

Milton Allimadi (01:01:48.032)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:04.449)
Basically, you know, they took out a loan to the degree of 25 million pounds at the time, a quarter of the state's budget to compensate the enslavers on the issue of granting votes to South African blacks. No, that victory was won on the battlefield, first and foremost with the victory at Koto-Koneval and then the subsequent push.

Milton Allimadi (01:02:05.962)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:32.743)
on South Africa based on the boycotts of the apartheid government. So there's no kudos for that. And one final thing from Lord Hamer. Lord Hamer's comments come after he admitted he had to recuse himself from giving advice to the government on potential conflicts of interest. The Telegraph recently discovered that he had contributed a handbook

which advised Palestinian victims on how to use the US court, UK courts, to sue companies that sold arms to Israel.

Milton Allimadi (01:03:09.493)
I love this guy.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:11.393)
That's why I said, that story there.

Milton Allimadi (01:03:13.301)
I love this guy because this guy is brave and courageous. He's going to get a lot of backlash. It could cost him his job, but obviously he's saying it willingly and knowingly, and he's willing to live with the consequences. So we need more people like that.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:20.885)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:25.834)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:29.881)
Yes, yes, yes. Yes. And on that very positive note from Lord Hemma, and we've come to the end of another episode of African News Review. And it's been pleasure as usual having Comrade On to discuss the stories with me. And Comrades, any final thoughts?

Milton Allimadi (01:03:50.738)
Yes, sir.

Milton Allimadi (01:03:56.06)
No, I think, you know, even when we see dire circumstances such as we see in the United States right now, I want to encourage our viewers and our listeners that, you know, the struggle is not a linear process. It's never been a linear process, you know. There are gains, there are setbacks, and then there are gains. But so long as the inequities that govern much of the world

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:04.821)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:13.941)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:20.726)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:24.022)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (01:04:25.427)
persist. So long as there are enough people who are sharing knowledge and education to the people who are the victims of these inequities, then it means there's always hope that there will be change. Right? We just have to keep struggling and we have to continue analyzing and connecting the dots. And that is how we give people hope. We give them the knowledge how to continue resisting and struggling to create a better world.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:40.011)
Yes. Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:46.324)
Hmm

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:56.009)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (01:04:56.07)
We are obliged to do that anyway. You see? You can never give up. Even in the most dire moments when apartheid was at its most powerful. You know, I remember having a conversation with a Ugandan diplomat. It's a long time ago. I would say maybe more than 20 years ago. And we're talking about apartheid in South Africa. No, more than 20 because apartheid, know.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:59.709)
Mm-hmm. Each one. Yeah, each one.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:09.099)
Yep.

Milton Allimadi (01:05:26.027)
You're talking 30 plus years actually way before even you know Mandela was released right Way before the battle of quito

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:31.787)
Hmm. Yep.

Milton Allimadi (01:05:38.19)
And he said,

apartheid will not end in our lifetime. And I said, I totally disagree.

And at that time, this is way, way before Quaterval, when appetite still seemed so powerful. You know? I said, no. And he said, why are you that confident? I said, because whenever you have that type of inequity, people will wake up every day thinking, how can we bring the system down? And whenever you have enough people,

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:12.033)
and push.

Milton Allimadi (01:06:18.458)
Thinking like that, the system will come down. And I convince it will happen in our lifetime.

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:22.955)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:06:28.303)
You know? So you see a Trump. How long is a Trump? And the Trump phenomena, how long is that going to last? It's already having some serious backlash already. You know? Is this a manifestation of the kind of reaction you're seeing to Lord Hummer's article?

those who want to step forward and say, let's acknowledge the truth and the reality of our past, and let's use that knowledge to build a better future. As opposed to those who are saying, let's ignore that history, let's pretend it never happened, and let's keep resisting and live in the world of unreality. That's represented by the trumps, you see, and the billions that still support him. On the other hand,

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:01.046)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (01:07:19.664)
You have millions that are coming to deal with the facts, like a Lord Heyman type. And I think that is where the future lies, personally.

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:30.817)
Yes, Lord Hammer spoke about the legacy of violence. There is an 800 page book written by Caroline Elkins, absolutely titled A History of the British Empire, Caroline Elkins. there is not, this is not, this is, there is no,

Milton Allimadi (01:07:39.041)
Yep.

Milton Allimadi (01:07:45.092)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:07:54.672)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:58.133)
There's no if, buts maybes. It's all there. It's documented, referenced, and you know. So yeah. you were saying, final thoughts.

Milton Allimadi (01:08:04.122)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (01:08:09.943)
As I always end, aluta continua. I'm a very hopeful person and I encourage others to be that way too.

Adesoji Iginla (01:08:13.249)
And yes, I would support that and say, yes, keep fighting the good fights. And as the great Kwame Turei or Stokely Carmichael is more widely known is organize, organize and organize. so good evening and until next time, good night for now.

Milton Allimadi (01:08:36.142)
Absolutely.

Milton Allimadi (01:08:43.214)
Santisana.