EP 8 France Expelled Again?! I African News Review 🌍

In this week's conversation Adesoji Iginla and Milton Allimadi explores the themes of colonialism, neo-colonialism, and the ongoing struggles for true independence in Africa. It discusses the recent withdrawal of French troops from several African nations, the historical context of colonialism, and the role of youth movements in driving political change. The speakers reflect on the impact of foreign aid and economic policies on African development, the controversial legacy of Tony Blair in relation to Africa, and the significant contributions of Jimmy Carter to African diplomacy. The discussion emphasizes the need for African agency and the importance of resisting external narratives that undermine African potential.

Takeaways

*The withdrawal of French troops signifies a shift in African nations' attitudes towards colonialism.
*Youth movements are crucial in driving political change in Africa.
*The historical context of military presence in Africa is rooted in colonialism.
*Western nations often maintain a patronising attitude towards African leadership.
*The aid industrial complex hinders true development in Africa.
*France's military presence is seen as a form of neocolonialism.
*The UK government's arms deals with Libya reveal double standards in foreign policy.
*African nations are increasingly seeking true independence from former colonial powers.
*The role of social media has empowered ordinary Africans to challenge colonial narratives.
*There is a growing sentiment against superficial independence among African youth. Prominent *African figures often face challenges in gaining acceptance.
*Aid should empower local economies rather than perpetuate dependency.
*Agency in African narratives is crucial for self-advocacy.
*Education on economic issues is vital for African leaders.
*Effective leadership can drive significant economic transformation.
*Jimmy Carter's presidency marked a shift in U.S.-Africa relations.
*Critiques of Western narratives often overlook African agency.
*African solutions are essential for addressing the continent's challenges.
*Political leadership has lasting consequences on economic policies.
*Empowerment through knowledge is key to overcoming historical burdens.

Chapters

00:00 Welcome and Introduction
02:47 The Withdrawal of French Troops from Africa
05:52 Historical Context of French Military Presence
08:58 Youth Movements and Political Change in Africa
12:06 The Role of France in African Politics
14:55 UK's Arms Deal with Libya
17:49 Critique of Western Aid to Africa
32:59 The Role of Prominent African Figures
34:08 Aid Dependency vs. Economic Empowerment
36:30 Agency and Representation in African Narratives
37:48 Education and Economic Awareness in Africa
39:40 Leadership and Economic Transformation
41:36 Jimmy Carter's Legacy in Africa
44:01 Critique of Western Narratives on Africa
48:41 The Importance of African Solutions
55:39 The Consequences of Political Leadership
01:01:06 Empowerment Through Knowledge and Confidence

Transcript

Adesoji Iginla (00:04.513)
Yes, greetings, greetings and welcome to African News and News Review and also Happy New Year to everyone out there wherever it is you're hearing us from. And again, as we left you last year, we kick off again, myself, Adesaji Ginla with my regular host, none other than, you know, Explorer extraordinaire. You know, he doesn't like winter, is, but, you know, he's the publisher.

Black Star News, WBAI on Tuesday, 3pm. And he's none other than the author of this book, which I highly recommend, Manufacturing Hate, How Africa was Demonized in the Western Press, the inspiration for this program. He's none other than Comrade Milton Andi Marti. How are you, sir? How are you?

Milton Allimadi (00:59.309)
Happy New Year, Santa. Welcome to all our viewers.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01.036)
Yes.

As, yeah, welcome again. The news has not really told with regards to the African space. Even while we're supposed to be away, things were happening. And we kick it, you know, we love the lineup we have. that's why I can't really contain my excitement. So for...

Milton Allimadi (01:31.614)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (01:32.805)
USA?

Milton Allimadi (01:34.732)
No, I said it's all good.

Adesoji Iginla (01:36.547)
Okay, yes. Because, I mean, the first story we pretty much predicted, but we'll go into it in on the same. It comes from Cote d'Ivoire. And it is that...

It comes from Associated Press and it reads Ivory Coast asks French troops to leave the latest African country to do so. The story is filed in by Toussaint Ungota. It reads, Abidjan Ivory Coast. Ivory Coast announced on Tuesday that French troops will leave the country after a decades long. I highlighted that in green for a reason. The latest African nation to do

to downscale military ties with its former colonial empire. Ivorian president Alassane Quatarra said the pullout will begin in January 2025. France has up to 600 troops in Côte d'Ivoire. He goes on, we have decided on the concerted and organized withdrawal of French forces in Côte d'Ivoire, he said, adding that the military infantry brigade of the Port Bois

that is run by the French army will be handed over to Ivorian troops. Watarah's announcement follows that of other leaders across West Africa, where Francis' militaries have been asked to leave. Analysts have described the request for French troops to leave Africa as part of the wider structural transformation in the region's engagement with Paris. Your initial thoughts with the...

the way the story is framed.

Milton Allimadi (03:20.122)
Well, first of all, I don't understand what it means when it says analyst talking about structural transformation with a nation. What does that mean? I mean, just say it in plain language. These countries are tired of, you know, colonialism.

Adesoji Iginla (03:23.585)
You

Adesoji Iginla (03:33.283)
Mm.

Mm.

Milton Allimadi (03:44.164)
and they have no choice because the ordinary people are tired of colonialism.

Whether you call it colonialism or neo colonialism I essentially I call it colonialism because there's no difference between the setup right now between France and its former colonies apart from the fact that they are now Superficially nominally run by Africans But in practice, they're actually not run by Africans Because their finances are handled by France and obviously

Adesoji Iginla (04:03.437)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (04:11.637)
Mm. Mm.

Milton Allimadi (04:21.027)
even their sovereignty is maintained by French troops, which means it's not their sovereignty, it's France's sovereignty. So these contradictions are now piling up and the masses have become much more conscious, partly because of social media. They're able to communicate and analyze and get competing interpretations.

Adesoji Iginla (04:30.509)
Choo choo choo choo

Adesoji Iginla (04:39.875)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm.

Milton Allimadi (04:49.282)
of the type of relationship they have with France. It is no longer just coming from the national state media, right? It's not only coming from French broadcasts from Paris, but now when you have transformations that happen in Mali, people are analyzing it from many perspectives, not from the analyst.

Adesoji Iginla (04:59.17)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (05:04.237)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (05:12.813)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (05:18.818)
that the AP is referring to, the unnamed analyst that the AP is referring to. Right? And the same thing with the situation in the ground in Burkina Faso and Niger. And those were primarily the reasons why even Chad, which is essentially in France's pocket tightly, had no choice but to ask them to leave French troops.

Adesoji Iginla (05:38.947)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (05:48.079)
So in an earlier episode, some weeks ago, we predicted that there would be too much pressure on any of these West African countries to continue allowing French military presence on the ground. And that if they did not do something about it, they would be prone to a potential military takeover by junior officers. And I think that is what

Adesoji Iginla (05:52.267)
Yes, we did.

Milton Allimadi (06:16.476)
Alassane Katara is reading and I think that next is going to be Gabon and Djibouti. They really have no choice because the world does not live in isolation in terms of information. Africans in Gabon are watching what's happening in these other countries and Africans in Djibouti are watching the same thing.

Adesoji Iginla (06:24.205)
You

Adesoji Iginla (06:28.109)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (06:33.027)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (06:43.395)
Could you give us a background as to why the troops were stationed in those respective countries in the first place?

Milton Allimadi (06:50.851)
because France really did not want to allow the end of colonialism. So the leaders in subsequent years, they saw what happened in Congo in 1960. And they saw how determined imperialism was to maintain colonialism in Congo. So after Congo, is nominal independence in June, 1960, and then started addressing

Adesoji Iginla (07:11.395)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (07:21.398)
the issues of economics. They wanted, okay, now I am prime minister, legitimately elected, Patrice Lumumba. Now I want to have control over our resources, over the economy. And that's when they made him aware that they had two different interpretations of independence. Lumumba meant, he believed independence meant independence. But for the Belgians,

Adesoji Iginla (07:26.595)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (07:51.741)
and their allies, French, United States, Britain. Independence meant we would allow you to take office as the prime minister or president. You can put your national flag, your national anthem, live in the big house. But when it comes to controlling resources, we intend to maintain that. To the extent that they invaded, they stirred up insurrection,

Adesoji Iginla (08:13.61)
and

Milton Allimadi (08:21.248)
secession, including in Katanga. Then they overthrew Lumumba. They imposed Mbutu, the puppet, and they murdered Lumumba in January 1961. And since then, most African leaders, you know, they reflect back upon that incident. So when France said, are going to maintain our troops, even after

Adesoji Iginla (08:28.651)
on both.

Milton Allimadi (08:50.322)
so-called independence. They saw the writing on the wall. They did not want to end up like Patrice Bumumba. And that's how we had this class of collaborationist Africans who emerged and have been pretty much the rulers for the several decades since Muzarkin came to join independence. But now the youth have no choice because the levels of economic

Adesoji Iginla (08:50.721)
in the bend.

Adesoji Iginla (08:58.921)
like in the moment okay

Adesoji Iginla (09:12.183)
Hmm. Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (09:19.969)
retrogression have become very severe in all these countries. The youth have nothing to lose. In fact, it was the youth and trades unions and students organizations that had mobilized in Mali before the coup d'etat in Mali, before the current rulers in Mali intervened. They intervened, but the young people are ones who are leading in the streets.

So then you have Mali in Burkina Faso, the same thing. It was the youth, people forget, who came out and turned out Campari, the assassin who killed Dormansankara. And then, you know, since then they've had a couple of more transitions. And right now, of course, as you know, they have the military leader Traore, who...

Adesoji Iginla (10:03.019)
in Bokinov, as well. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (10:14.795)
Ibrahim Traore.

Milton Allimadi (10:18.311)
of course, is appealing to Sankara's legacy to get support from the masses and from the young people. So there's really no choice that Ivory Coast would do what it did right now. And I think it's only a question of time. We're going to see the same thing in Gilbao. And if that doesn't happen, I won't be surprised if we see another takeover.

Adesoji Iginla (10:23.811)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (10:38.273)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (10:49.013)
in Gabor, but this time much more allied with the masses and with the young people. And same thing, same thing for Djibouti as well. Africans are tired of superficial independence. They want true independence because they know that is the precondition to really start tackling the economic challenges that they face.

Adesoji Iginla (10:55.277)
Mm. Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (11:14.531)
I'll take one last part from this story and it's this part here. France has been kicked out of more than 70 % of countries where it had troop presence since ending its colonial rule. France remains only in Djibouti with 1,500 soldiers and Gabon with 350. Analyst, again, has described the development as part of a wider structural transformation in the regionals' engagements

with Paris and growing local sentiments against France, especially in cool heat countries. After expelling French troops, military leaders of Niger, Mali and Burkina Faso have moved closer to Russia, which has mercenaries deployed across the Sahara who have been accused of abuses against civilians. Nothing but the last salvo.

Milton Allimadi (12:06.108)
Okay, the only interesting thing here apart from their propaganda, of course, you know, trying to suggest that there were no abuses when the French were allied with these governments in the fight against the so-called jihadists. Anybody can go back and do the research in terms of the abuses by French troops, killing of civilians, know, stealing.

Adesoji Iginla (12:14.592)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (12:29.111)
Yeah, operation back in. During operation back in. Yeah, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (12:35.545)
and all that stuff. That's all been well documented. And now it says.

France has now been kicked out of more than 70 % of African countries where it had a true presence since ending its colonial rule. How does that make sense? How can you end colonial rule and still have troops military presence? It's it's preposterous, you know, in 2025. But you know what? And the other reference to analysts have described.

Adesoji Iginla (12:57.525)
in 2020s.

Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (13:11.108)
So this just shows the level of contempt that they have when it comes to doing stories about African countries. assure you that if the, what article is, what media outlet is this again? If the Associated Press is writing about the United States on a critical issue like this, writing about Britain, writing about any European,

Adesoji Iginla (13:11.299)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (13:26.199)
This is the Associated Press AP.

Adesoji Iginla (13:35.427)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (13:40.644)
country, a European majority country, they would not be referring to a named analyst, correct? So let's accept that. That is just a made up reference for the writer to put his own spin. Which analyst? It doesn't even say analyst, interviewed by this writer, you see? So I assure you that nobody was interviewed to describe what he claims.

Adesoji Iginla (13:42.007)
Hmm. Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (13:49.315)
sure. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (13:54.115)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (14:08.058)
you

Milton Allimadi (14:08.537)
you know, not with him anyway. That's very clear. So it shows you the contempt that they have when dealing with African countries.

Adesoji Iginla (14:11.243)
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (14:20.867)
Yes, speaking of the Francophone countries, they've been in some sort of rot since the end of colonial in the 60s. And nowhere is it more apparent than those landlord countries. And by that I refer to the likes of Niger, Chad, and Burkina Faso. You could see that these countries were basically just funneling all their funds.

to the metropole as François Nome called Paris.

anyone in their right mind will know that this upheaval was coming. But for some reason the French never quite got wind of whatever it is that was coming down the pike. Why was that the case though?

Milton Allimadi (15:12.343)
No, they did get win, and that is why they had the military true presence. They were trying to preempt the, you know, true nationalism from coming to the fore. They have dominated these countries for a long time. They trained the leaders, post so-called independence leaders in these countries. They maintained the security apparatus.

Adesoji Iginla (15:17.176)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (15:41.035)
They maintained the intelligence services so they knew what these leaders were saying and thinking probably even before they started thinking about what they were thinking. So, and that is the reason why they maintain the troop presence because they did not want an organic relationship to evolve in any one of these countries. So in fact, things that should have happened in the 1960s.

Adesoji Iginla (15:50.633)
You

Adesoji Iginla (15:58.051)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (16:05.443)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (16:11.217)
only now materializing now. So obviously these countries have lost many, many years, but it's not unique to them. All African countries have lost many, many years. The only good thing is that all of them have the resources to develop their economies, to develop their countries, to develop their infrastructure, and to really stop, as you say,

Adesoji Iginla (16:13.731)
Hmm

Adesoji Iginla (16:24.696)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (16:31.853)
capacity.

Milton Allimadi (16:40.495)
allowing the surplus to be siphoned off to the metropole, whether the metropole is France, whether it's Britain, Belgium, whether it's Germany, whether it's the United States, and whether, you know, well, I won't say it's a metropole, but it's an emerging type metropole, which is, of course, China as well. You know, any region where we deal with selling them raw materials, that should be seen as a metropole because we still, we then end up buying.

Adesoji Iginla (16:43.522)
Hmm

Adesoji Iginla (16:48.267)
or the United States.

Adesoji Iginla (16:57.571)
China. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (17:05.175)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (17:10.33)
expensive manufacturers from the people that use African resources to do things that we could do in Africa, which is to manufacture.

Adesoji Iginla (17:17.069)
too.

Hmm. OK. That said, speaking of Metropole, we'll go to London and we'll go to the Financial Times, which says, according to the archives papers released, the UK government lobbied Libya for arms deal with BAE Systems. And for those who are not aware, BAE Systems is the largest arms manufacturer in the UK.

and links between Gaddafi and Blair in 2004 revealed by newly released letter. It reads and it's filed by Kieran Smith in London. It reads, the British government lobbied for an arms agreement with Libya on behalf of aerospace BAE system while Tony Blair was prime minister, newly released documents have shown the cabinet office files reveals a letter from the BAE system, Sir Richard Evans in 2004.

asking Blair's Chief of Staff Jonathan Powell to open discussions with Libya's Mamangadhafi. Even without going in there, could you just tell me what that just tells you?

Milton Allimadi (18:33.22)
Well, but I have some issues with this story in the sense that it's really a non-story story because a lot of what it is supposedly revealing is something that is already known. mean, it's no secret that Blair was very instrumental in normalizing relations with Libya. And so it really...

Adesoji Iginla (18:44.066)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (18:50.178)
Hahaha!

Adesoji Iginla (18:58.253)
Relations with Libya.

Milton Allimadi (19:04.959)
repudiates that false narrative that Kandaki was an existential threat who necessitated the intervention in 2010. You see?

Adesoji Iginla (19:08.216)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (19:13.313)
Which is the... Yeah.

The double dealing was it for me. It was the double dealing because if you were hoping to sell him arms in 2004, okay, you make contact with him in 2004 and you then went to war with this same guy a couple of years later, what are you doing?

Milton Allimadi (19:38.771)
No, but that's the point that I'm reinforcing. This is not news. So I don't know what is wrong with this media outlet that it's pretending to be breaking some new territory. mean, Belaya was openly campaigning to have the sanctions lifted so that the West could resume selling arms to Libya. The story could have been better.

Adesoji Iginla (19:42.625)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (19:45.911)
Hahaha

Adesoji Iginla (19:51.031)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (19:58.883)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (20:08.331)
had the story outline this contradiction, you know, but they won't dare go there, even with the information they have, you see. That's why you end up having a non-story story. Had the story said, since Blair was, and which was not even new, I mean, people were wondering, okay, why is Blair trying to normalize relations? What advantages would come out of it?

Adesoji Iginla (20:15.997)
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Milton Allimadi (20:38.219)
Obviously, one of the advantages would be selling weapons, resuming exports of everything that had been banned by the EU. And one of them was, of course, was the weapons, right? Now, if they're saying, and everybody knows that BAE is one of the world's largest producers, and it would be logical that BAE would be a beneficiary of that. Now, if you're trying to...

Adesoji Iginla (20:38.338)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (20:49.826)
Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (20:59.199)
The largest. Yeah, I'm so blah. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (21:07.826)
show me that VAE, in addition to just reaching out to Blair's officials, offered some incentives and were there incentives offered to Blair himself personally? And do you have evidence of that? Then that would be a story, you see? And is there evidence of that which is being withheld? We don't know. You see? Something is missing.

Adesoji Iginla (21:11.521)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (21:19.011)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (21:27.511)
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (21:32.297)
You

Milton Allimadi (21:37.222)
about this so-called story story. And that's where I find it very perplexing. Anybody can go back and do the research and they'll see that Blair was at the forefront. There have been books about it already. And in fact, Nelson Mandela as well, because Libya was very instrumental in supporting the ANC in its liberation struggle against apartheid in South Africa. So Mandela also

Adesoji Iginla (21:37.932)
You

Adesoji Iginla (21:46.147)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (21:52.087)
Yep, yep.

Adesoji Iginla (22:00.322)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (22:05.831)
was putting a lot of using his global esteem, of course, of the United States, to lift these sanctions against Libya. Right.

Adesoji Iginla (22:11.71)
Mmm. Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (22:16.003)
Sanctions, yeah. Okay. Let me read. There's another part that, okay. It's the exchange demonstrates the closeness of the relationship between Blair and the Libyan leader. The UK was instrumental in lobbying for sanctions on Gaddafi to be lifted after assurances that the country had wound down a program to develop weapons of mass destruction. Evans letter dated March 22, 2004 noted,

BAE had been engaging with Libya for three years pending the resumption. So even in light of the sanctions being in place, the letter suggests that they've been talking to the Libyans three years while. So this was what jumped out for me was like, okay, so what's the point of having the sanctions when companies can freely flout them?

Milton Allimadi (22:59.303)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (23:12.188)
Well, they're not flouting in the sense that they're not exporting because that's bad. But I think there was probably more than talking going on. And that's why this story is very perplexing. There's something missing from this story. I don't know whether it was not available information or whether information that it's being withheld.

Adesoji Iginla (23:16.405)
Yeah, yeah, but they're talking.

Adesoji Iginla (23:29.091)
Mm.

Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (23:33.798)
You know, I'm very skeptical. There's either unintentionally or intentionally missing from this story. You see? The hinting, you know, demonstrates a closeness of the relationship between Blair and the Libyan leader. Are you telling me that?

Adesoji Iginla (23:42.775)
Hmm. Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (23:52.684)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (23:56.763)
there was shortage of individuals or even leaders whom Blair could befriend around the world. Is that what you're telling me? Was there something special about Mama Kadhafi that necessitated that he and Blair should be friends? Libya has phenomenal resources. So obviously, it's not a question of

Adesoji Iginla (24:01.377)
That was.

Adesoji Iginla (24:07.18)
Hmm

Adesoji Iginla (24:17.439)
Mm, mm, mm.

Milton Allimadi (24:26.0)
Gaddafi wanting any resources in terms of financing or funds from Britain or from Blair, right? On the other hand...

Libya has a lot of money. So here's where I am suggesting, and of course I'm not saying it happened in this case, because there's no evidence and it's not being presented. We're just seeing innuendos, right? But we know now for a fact that Gaddafi's family, or Gaddafi, or Saif, his son, at least Saif said, Saif al-Islam, that

Adesoji Iginla (24:51.228)
Yes, correct, correct.

Adesoji Iginla (25:01.623)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (25:07.748)
the Qadhafis gave money to Sarkozy.

Adesoji Iginla (25:13.847)
Yeah, which is why he's under house arrest.

Milton Allimadi (25:16.472)
Absolutely, to Sarkozy to finance his campaign. So this media outlet is making like hints and suggestions. You know, you know, why are you telling us, you know, the closeness of relationship between Blair and the Libyan leader and not exploring the story any further than that? What is the purpose? What is the purpose of even hinting at that? You know?

Adesoji Iginla (25:19.8)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (25:28.707)
Mmm. Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (25:41.141)
Hahaha!

Milton Allimadi (25:47.215)
So there's something definitely missing in this story. And maybe there's going to be a follow-up soon, but when I see this story carefully, there are more questions than answers. Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (25:47.636)
Ooh!

Hmm. Interesting.

Adesoji Iginla (26:02.101)
Hmm. Wow. That's an interesting take because I mean, if you bring in the Sarkozy element to it, Sarkozy actually got, you know, he got returns. So, and he's been, he's been convicted for it. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (26:05.432)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (26:10.372)
Yes.

Yes, he did. Yes, he did. Because France started doing the same thing which Britain and Obler was doing, which was to normalize relations. And now it was never announced publicly, of course. It was only disclosed. It was actually, it became a part of, know, there were some rumors about it. But then Saif al-Islam confirmed it, that yes, we gave money.

Adesoji Iginla (26:34.295)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (26:40.867)
Just like cozy.

Milton Allimadi (26:41.806)
to Sarkozy. So is there a similar element here? I don't know. I can't suggest it without any evidence. But I'm wondering why is it being, why would we see all these innuendos? The exchange demonstrates the closeness of the relationship between Blair and the Libyan leader.

Adesoji Iginla (26:47.595)
Wow.

Adesoji Iginla (26:52.685)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm

Adesoji Iginla (27:02.849)
Yes, yes, yes. Okay. wow. mean, that's the best. That puts cats among the pigeons. And speaking of cats among the pigeons, we go to our next story in The Guardian. And it's about aid to Africa. One of the key Tony issues which we guess to Africa, it comes from The Guardian. And it reads,

Milton Allimadi (27:07.214)
Yeah, to be continued, I guess is the best way.

Adesoji Iginla (27:31.349)
Life Aid campaigner Bob Geldof was scathing about African leaders' files revealed. Now these files are part of the archives that the previous story we read also came from. it reads, the lead reads, Singer urged Tony Blair not to appoint African co-chair to commission on aid, UK government paper show. And so that's Tony Blair, that's Bob Geldof, and that's the late Wangari Maffai. And

It reads, the Life Aid campaigner Bob Geldof urged Tony Blair not to appoint an African co-chair to the UK led organisation working to overhaul international aid to the continent because he thought African leadership was very weak on the issue. Nearly least government papers suggest the singer was scathing about the ability and worthiness of virtually all African leaders before the establishment in 2004 of Blair's commission.

for Africa which will produce a report of our common interest and prompt a landmark pledge by rich nations to boost aid and right of death. Geldof was instrumental in persuading the then prime minister to set up the branded report similar to the 1980 branded report on international economic development which would lead to a Marshall Plan for Africa, a reference to the U.S. plan to rebuild Europe after the Second World War. It will coincide with

UK presidency of the G8 nations group and the 20th anniversary of Life8. When, before you say something, when I read that something jumped out, it's for me, it's the tone or the patronizing tone of saying to Africans, we will tell you what you can and cannot do. Asif

the various African elements don't have in their culture an aid principle. mean Ubuntu is I see you, therefore you are who I am. We have so many aid in culturally aid inspired activities on the African continent and to think you cannot find an African person. I mean, you're standing next to one.

Adesoji Iginla (29:55.201)
That's the, in that picture, you're standing next to one that you cannot find one fitting to help you carry the so-called bowl of help to the G8 nations group. It's really telling about your mindset of who you think Africans are. Over to you, sir.

Milton Allimadi (30:16.062)
Okay, so actually, I would prefer to have a person like Gueldon than to have, you know, the French neocolonialism, which was pervasive in West Africa. Now, I don't know Gueldon. I don't know if he could be educated to understand the neocolonial relationship that actually is the problem.

that all African countries suffer. So I say this to, because I believe his heart is in the right place. Now he may not know how to, the true reasons behind African impoverishment and therefore how to deal with it. Because of course, one of the problems, the main reason why there's African impoverishment is because of the,

Adesoji Iginla (30:45.955)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (30:50.369)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (31:03.01)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (31:14.397)
aid industrial complex, you see? But if you're telling me that you are going to mobilize resources similar to the Marshall type plan with no conditions, no restrictions, and that African countries can actually use this money to industrialize, then of course I would support something like that. Because that

Adesoji Iginla (31:17.847)
Yes?

Adesoji Iginla (31:30.177)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (31:40.733)
actually helped Europeans to recover their industrial economies after World War II. Europe was completely devastated. And we would be talking about, I hate the term, third world countries, but those would be the third world countries of today had it not been the United States intervention. You see? So that's my first observation. And then my second point is that I would actually not

Adesoji Iginla (31:48.471)
Yep. Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (32:05.041)
with a Marshall Plan.

Milton Allimadi (32:11.238)
quarrel with him at all in terms of not having... If they're talking about African presidents, I absolutely agree with them. None of them qualified to be a court chair, given the lack of caliber of leadership, particularly at that time. Julius Nyerere was no longer president in Tanzania. Tanzania had already jumped back, jumped for the first time rather on the IMF.

Adesoji Iginla (32:21.398)
okay.

Adesoji Iginla (32:34.819)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (32:41.188)
World Bank wagon. Thomas Sankara had been long assassinated, you see. a Geldof, would Britain even agree to embrace a person like Sankara, which of course would be my ideal type of African leader to be on this commission? I doubt it, right? But so given the type of quote unquote rulers,

Adesoji Iginla (32:59.191)
No.

Milton Allimadi (33:09.505)
in African countries at that time. I believe this was in early 2000s, correct? I would not oppose not having an African president on that. But a prominent African like Wangari Maathai, of course, she would qualify. And of course, she would have difficulty being accepted by the president of her own country.

Adesoji Iginla (33:16.014)
Mm-hmm. Yeah,

Milton Allimadi (33:39.107)
at that time. Probably not allow her to be appointed, but she would deserve. So there were prominent African individuals such as Maatai who would have qualified. There prominent Africans like Ngugi Wationgo. Obviously they would not support him being on that commission because of his

Adesoji Iginla (33:40.887)
Yes, yes, yes, Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (33:54.275)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (34:08.73)
his worldview, Anti-capital, you know, right? They would not include him. Would they include a Wole Shoinka? I haven't actually read much of his writings that focus on economic transformation, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (34:10.987)
Anti-capital, yeah.

Hmm

Adesoji Iginla (34:26.007)
I can safely say no, they will not.

Milton Allimadi (34:28.121)
Okay, you see? Okay, good. So that's how we would approach it. I think his heart is in the right place. But it is not a question of the amount of aid that we need to boost to Central African country. It is what will that aid be used for? If it's used in such a way that Kenya can now package its own tea.

Adesoji Iginla (34:35.255)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (34:57.655)
and sell it in these nice packages around the world, export. Like the brands that I find when I go to Whole Foods. If it's so that Bukino Faso can, I mean, Ivory Coast, can sell its chocolate in nice, fancy packages that cost anywhere from 30, 40 to 50 dollars instead of sending these sacks of cocoa beans for pennies.

Adesoji Iginla (35:12.355)
and it's cough.

Adesoji Iginla (35:24.427)
Mmm. Mmm. Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (35:26.978)
to these countries where they then package it. If that's what the fund is intended for, then I'm a big supporter. But if it's just a stopgap measure, it's perpetuating the dependency, which has been the problem in African countries, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (35:29.89)
Hmm

Adesoji Iginla (35:45.011)
Mm, mm, mm, mm. And I mean, you've touched on the aid element of it. We did a story a while back where the messaging of the aid, know, the music, do they know it's Christmas, to which the Ghanaian artists, you know, sort of push back upon.

Milton Allimadi (36:02.549)
Right.

Adesoji Iginla (36:11.263)
The reason that story jumped out at me was if you're not seeing us in places where we're supposed to be advocating for ourselves and the language you're using does not reflect our aspirations, can we truly say we have agency with regards to matters that affect us?

Milton Allimadi (36:30.581)
don't have agency, but we have potential allies. And I guess that's a bigger point I'm making. So if I were that artist, I would say your heart is in the right place. But in terms of strategy, that's incorrect. The problem is not that we are quote unquote poor. We are impoverished because we are not allowed to use our resources.

Adesoji Iginla (36:35.884)
OK.

Adesoji Iginla (36:45.686)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (36:53.471)
Overished, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (36:58.942)
to build wealth in our own countries. And if you truly want to help, these are my suggestions and we can work together. So we should invite all potential allies who want to be educated on the right approach. And if they insist on their own approach and reject the correct education, then of course that's not an ally. And then you leave them be and you start critiquing and criticizing them.

Adesoji Iginla (37:01.644)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (37:16.204)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (37:29.501)
But until they reject our attempts to educate them, we should try to make them allies first. And if we can't, we throw them by the roadside and we say, are actually part of the people who are maintaining the problems in African countries, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (37:29.57)
Hmm

Adesoji Iginla (37:48.861)
Mm-hmm. mean, well, so.

Milton Allimadi (37:51.269)
And the problem is many of us as well.

You know, because of a lack of alternative interpretations of economics, many Africans who want to do well also don't know what is to be done. You see? You know, many Africans are not familiar with Krumah's works, Neocolonialism, Life, Spid, and Perilsim.

Adesoji Iginla (38:04.727)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (38:11.338)
Mm. Mm.

Milton Allimadi (38:23.046)
Many are not familiar with Mohammed Babu. You know, it works. Many are not familiar with critical economics that is not just embracing capital.

Adesoji Iginla (38:28.386)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (38:41.805)
Samira Mew.

Milton Allimadi (38:43.151)
Absolutely, Samir Abin and many others. They think it's just a question of, we have corrupt leaders in Afghan countries. So all we need to do is get some leaders who are less corrupt with clean hands. That's insufficient. That's a good beginning. But even a leader with clean hands,

Adesoji Iginla (38:52.343)
Needles, yeah, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (38:56.575)
is removed.

Milton Allimadi (39:10.823)
who continues the neoliberalism will be much less effective than a corrupt leader who actually embraces the right approach and even says, okay, I am going to industrialize, but I insist on getting 5 % of everything, even 10%. But we are not going to be exporting any raw products anymore. Any aid that comes

Adesoji Iginla (39:19.843)
you

Milton Allimadi (39:40.718)
Boom, factory. Every part of the country that has the resources, we're going to produce factory. And even the regions that don't have resources, we'll build a factory there and ship resources from other parts of the country that have resources so that all our people can get employment. You see? And we are going to start exporting manufacturers. And I want our country to increase the level of industrialization by 4%.

Adesoji Iginla (39:53.165)
This is that. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (40:10.411)
every year. And I want to be here in power only for 10 years, max. But by the time I leave, I want the level of industrialization to be maybe 30, 40 percent. You know? But I insist on keeping 10 percent for my family. That leader would be able to create much more wealth and prosperity for Africans and develop the country than the leader who maybe prays

every Friday if he goes to the mosque or every Sunday if he goes to a Christian church. But it's clueless when it comes to neoliberal economics and neocolonialism. Of course, I would prefer to have the leader who does what I described first without insisting on 10%. You know, going to him. But I'm just giving you an analogy in terms of what needs to be done.

Adesoji Iginla (40:51.309)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (41:01.091)
Yeah, yeah.

being street smart and functional corruption works, that's according to Comrade. So yes, and we'll go to the last story for this week. On December 29, 2024, the United States lost President Jimmy Carter, the ripe old age of a century.

Milton Allimadi (41:36.737)
Right.

Adesoji Iginla (41:37.795)
Jimmy Carter is, Jimmy Carter in the United States, but to Africans he's much more than a United States president. And yeah, so the last part of this program will dedicate to him and we'll take heed from a story we found in Radio France International and it reads, the loudly unsung

role of the U.S. former president Carter in southern Africa. Former U.S. president Jimmy Carter, who died on Sunday, age 100, was well known for his diplomatic skills and commitment to respecting human rights and much less so for his African legacy. Yet, was one of the first U.S. presidents to visit sub-Saharan Africa during his short term in office from 1977 to 1981.

He worked hard to enable the transformation of racist radition into independent Zimbabwe. There he is in Liberia. And Jimmy Carter signed Camp David's Accord in 1978, another African win. The Camp David Accord was between Israel and Egypt over the Sinai Peninsula, establishing the framework for a peace treaty between Israel and Egypt.

was seen as one of his major political achievements. Again that was on the mind but you know who. Yet looking back on his term of office in 2002 he told history professor Nancy Mitchell, spent more effort and worry on Rhodesia than I did on the Middle East. Mitchell author of Jimmy Carter in Africa race and the cold war say rims of document detailing his commitment to end white rule in Rhodesia helped bring about its independence as Zimbabwe backed up

former president's claim. Carter's involvement in Rhodesia during his four-year stint in office was largely based on real politics. Southern Africa had become a theater for Cold War politics. Fidel Castro had sent Cuban troops to Angola in 1976 to protect the leftist MPLA from a US-backed invasion by apartheid. South Africa and Mozambique had fallen to left leaning Freljmo. Your first thoughts?

Milton Allimadi (44:01.534)
Okay, actually the most interesting part comes toward the end that we just read. But although overall overview, I would like to say that their approach to the story was in the right direction. In fact, minute I heard Carter had joined the ancestors, that was my first tweet. And my tweet was that, you know, and I wouldn't be surprised if perhaps they noticed a tweet. I said,

Adesoji Iginla (44:05.334)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (44:09.058)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (44:22.584)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (44:31.21)
was a game changer in terms of being the first US president to embrace the liberation struggle in Africa. And by appointing Andy Young as ambassador to the United Nations. So what I felt this story with, of course, part of it is like something written in the 1960s, right?

Adesoji Iginla (44:43.843)
Andrew Young,

Adesoji Iginla (45:00.663)
The real politic.

Milton Allimadi (45:02.249)
1970s. How are you referring to how you say that that Mozambique had fallen to left leaning for limo. It's like saying that when the US had the Declaration of Independence in 1776, that the United States had fallen to anti monarchist forces.

Adesoji Iginla (45:06.357)
left-leaning.

Adesoji Iginla (45:23.395)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (45:31.521)
Hmm hmm hmm

Milton Allimadi (45:32.093)
you know, opposing the monarch of England. It's so preposterous that a war of national liberation, know, fallen, meaning you prefer that it had continued to be a colony of a European country, which is Portugal. So I have a very serious issue with that kind of tone.

Adesoji Iginla (45:39.159)
Hmm. Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (45:50.273)
country was yeah.

Milton Allimadi (46:02.971)
In fact, I don't even know if the article has somebody's byline because it's so, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (46:07.843)
Okay, me a second. Bear me a Bear me a second. Okay. No, unfortunately, it doesn't. No.

Milton Allimadi (46:11.091)
It exposes a level of ignorance which is...

Milton Allimadi (46:17.289)
And I'm not surprised, it's probably by design. And then that Cuba had gone to Angola in 1976 to preempt the invasion by South Africa, which was of course incorrect. Cuba went in 1975 to help, and even before the country was officially independence,

Adesoji Iginla (46:20.258)
It doesn't.

Adesoji Iginla (46:29.027)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (46:39.437)
Five, yep.

Milton Allimadi (46:45.68)
And it was because of the Cuban intervention on the side of the MPLA that we did not have a Western puppet government in Angola, which would have been imposed by the CIA, by South Africa, and by UNITA, or Sovimbes UNITA, and the FNLA under Holden Robato. So I'm not...

Adesoji Iginla (46:57.076)
Angola,

Adesoji Iginla (47:10.755)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (47:14.824)
clear whether the person who wrote this and did not even put their name on the story was confusing this intervention with the massive Cuban intervention in the 1980s, which led to the decisive defeat of South Africa's invasion in the Battle of Cuito-Cuanavale. But it's so fixated on left this, left that, know, left this, left this.

Adesoji Iginla (47:30.462)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (47:43.922)
that the article loses focus and sort of diminishes the role that Jimmy Carter was able to accomplish with his ground-changing approach toward his conduct to Africa. People look back nostalgically and say, Kennedy was such a big supporter of Africa.

Adesoji Iginla (47:52.641)
got a plate. Yep.

Milton Allimadi (48:13.903)
you know, because he was youthful, you know, he spoke well, you know, he had an attractive, you know, wife, you know, so they kept presenting this image of Camelot, right? In reality, we learn from Susan Williams' that Kennedy was actually no friend of Africa. When it comes to the practical...

Adesoji Iginla (48:19.018)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (48:25.057)
You

Adesoji Iginla (48:29.325)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (48:37.546)
Africa, exactly.

Milton Allimadi (48:41.924)
you know, US abuse of its power. know, the imperialism was undermining African independence in Congo, in Ghana, right? So perhaps Jimmy Carter was actually the first friend of Africa.

Adesoji Iginla (48:45.633)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (48:59.383)
Yep, in Guinea Bissau.

Milton Allimadi (49:10.374)
that had been in the White House and not Kennedy at all. So even in trying to play tribute to Jimmy Carter, this article diminishes his accomplishments.

Adesoji Iginla (49:10.815)
sat in the White House. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (49:20.289)
Hahaha

I mean, I would like to add, I was reading White Supremacy Confronted by Gerard Horn, and actually very, very, quite voluminous, but we tried. In him there, he said one of the things Jimmy Carter did was, his policy on Africa was

we're going to put a moral face onto the White House. And with the moral face was essentially, we're not going to go around, you know, killing, popping people, to the point where everything that went out, out of the United States in terms of its foreign policy had to be second checked. And that was the time this man, the father to

Mika Brzezinski, Zenigar Brzezinski was the Secretary of State. And so National Security Advisor, sorry, National Security Advisor. And so.

Milton Allimadi (50:23.94)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (50:29.541)
Was it the Secretary of or National Security, I think, advised them?

Adesoji Iginla (50:38.647)
Because the Republican Party at the time had the usual imperial ambitions, they felt what Jimmy Carter was doing was undermining the role of South Africa. And if Rhodesia were to fall, then it would make a mockery of the powers of the corporates in South Africa who were making profits.

Milton Allimadi (51:03.653)
you

Adesoji Iginla (51:05.667)
Kissinger had been there in 74 and 75 to tell, um, peak Bolta, who then became, uh, Big Potter was a defense minister at the that whatever you do, do not go into Angola. Cause the last thing you want is to start a race wars. We are trying to buy you time and delay the inevitable. Cause they knew.

eventually majority rule will come to South Africa. But Kissinger also then empowered the CIA, know, whisperings and what have you, to, you know, sort of undermine the government in both Rhodesia and Angola. In Rhodesia, they managed to get away with it because they weren't exposed, but in Angola they were.

Milton Allimadi (51:36.032)
Right.

Adesoji Iginla (52:00.097)
There was, there's a brilliant book titled The CIA and the British Mercenaries. Basically, this is one very powerful pamphlet. And it's about 80 pages and it goes into detail about what happened, how they were eventually captured and some of them were executed. And so these are some of the machinations that the West, the public West does not see.

Now here is where it gets complicated.

they African Americans that served in the Vietnam.

that because of the treatment they got back home, there was no money, some of them were homeless, they then became mercenaries. And in becoming mercenaries, they signed up to UNITA, to fight UNITA.

to fight for UNITA on behalf, you know. And so while they were fighting for UNITA, you know, and there was also a group of black lawyers in the United States that wanted the conspiracy act to be thrown against them. So you had two African-American associations going up against each other, fighting because they thought they were fighting the commies, which is the word they used in that.

Milton Allimadi (52:58.207)
Right.

Milton Allimadi (53:21.874)
Right.

Adesoji Iginla (53:24.449)
So, but when Carter heard about it, he immediately shut it down. So in a way, Carter was ahead of his time in terms of the possibilities.

Milton Allimadi (53:37.99)
Yes, definitely, because given this sudden experience as well.

Adesoji Iginla (53:39.683)
And as they say, elections do have consequences. When it came to the 1981 election, 80 election, he lost to the Republican, Ronald Reagan. And what did Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher do with regards to South Africa? They doubled down.

Milton Allimadi (53:52.125)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (54:04.614)
Constructive engagement.

Adesoji Iginla (54:06.445)
constructive engagement, they double down. Another key aspect of that thing that was about Jared Horn's book, White Supremacy Confronted, was also there was a migration pattern that was kept under wraps. And guess what the migration pattern was? There was an average of 3,000 people emigrating from the United States and, as I said, from South Africa and Rhodesia.

into the United States, the UK and Germany between 1986 and up till when the apartheid fell. Why is that important? That was important in sense that the president of South Africa at the time, P.W. Boater, put a statement in the Wall Street Journal

blaming the hypocrisy of the United States government of allowing them in, but not allowing the people south of the border into the United States. Fast forward 2024. Can you see? They say, what's the saying again? The election have consequences. We're still playing the same game all over again. So, I deal to,

President Jimmy Carter, he did a lot for Africa. And even when he came out of office, humanitarian work, yes.

Milton Allimadi (55:39.843)
he was not doing it for political accolades. He meant what he was doing.

Adesoji Iginla (55:44.393)
Yes, yes, yes, Mm, mm, mm. You know, so.

Milton Allimadi (55:48.949)
Now that you talk about migration, there's actually one other point which was in that Guardian article about Geldof. And then it turns out he was absolutely 100 % correct and prescient. Although the Guardian article is trying to spin it in a different way. He said something that...

Adesoji Iginla (56:12.035)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (56:15.053)
I was not even aware that he said, which is something that I've been saying on my WBI radio show on a regular basis now.

The reason why we see thousands of Africans showing up on the streets of New York now, through the southern border, after going through South America, taking all that risk, many die along the way. The reason why we see Africans dying, crossing the Mediterranean, is because of the, as I said earlier, the appalling state

of their economies. The appalling state of the extraction of resources from Africa, surplus profit. And he said, if we don't, it's in that article that we read earlier, if we don't make it possible for Africans to earn a livelihood in Africa, they're going to end up on our shores.

Adesoji Iginla (56:56.704)
and

Milton Allimadi (57:24.715)
And that's exactly what is now manifest today. So I would actually use that line again, even today. Stop economic exploitation of Africa so that Africans can actually earn a livelihood in Africa. Nobody has any special desire to come to sleep on the streets in your cities.

Adesoji Iginla (57:28.449)
Hmm

Milton Allimadi (57:53.408)
There's nothing special about sleeping on the streets in Europe or the United States. Nothing special about washing somebody's toilet or working in a kitchen or sweeping the streets in Europe or the United States. Africans would not want to do that back in Africa. So why would they want to do that in Europe or United States? But it manifests the level of desperation. They want resources to send home.

Adesoji Iginla (58:03.768)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (58:16.29)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (58:23.967)
They wouldn't need to do that if the exploitation was not ongoing.

The World Bank, the IMF, these are the number one enemies of Africa by preventing African countries from industrializing. So we need allies to join in attacking this neoliberal approach, which is imposed on Africa by the World Bank and the IMF. And these countries will start developing and will start sending aid to Britain and the United States officially by cutting a check.

Not the way they're doing it right now, by underselling.

the value of their resources, which is what they're doing right now. But this is a compensation for another whole show that we need to have.

Adesoji Iginla (59:12.205)
Mmm. Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (59:16.419)
I mean, the man did his best in light of the facts of the place he headed. I'm referring now to Jimmy Carter. exactly, exactly. That time was very precarious. You had the Russians, the Soviets, they were then known. You had the Chinese, well, to a lesser degree.

Milton Allimadi (59:29.877)
Absolutely, and the time in which he was president too.

Milton Allimadi (59:44.117)
So it was actually taking a lot of risk by taking that approach. Why are you not standing with fellow whites? Why are you betraying fellow whites? You see?

Adesoji Iginla (59:48.341)
Yes, yes.

Adesoji Iginla (59:53.347)
.

Mmm. Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (59:58.429)
And that is why perhaps he's not given the proper recognition for that. Because he was sort of seen as a traitor to the white cause, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:04.118)
Yeah, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:08.052)
Yeah, Exactly. Exactly. I mean, he was. was. He was. And I think...

Milton Allimadi (01:00:13.3)
We have whites governing in these countries, in so-called Rhodesia, in South Africa, and instead of you standing solidly with them, you're allying our policy with African natives. What's wrong with you?

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:24.235)
Mm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:43.213)
I think you've been hanging around them too. Anyway, so any last words on any of the articles we've run, including the passing of Jimmy Carter.

Milton Allimadi (01:00:45.182)
Mm-hmm. Yes, sir.

Milton Allimadi (01:00:56.487)
Wow.

Milton Allimadi (01:01:00.658)
Well, I mean, the same thing that I say all the time. Let's learn to read deeply. Let's see the hypocrisy. Let's defying and regarding people that don't have wish well for Africa. Defying them and seeing them like some sort of gods or demi-gods, right?

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:06.307)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:21.879)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:26.691)
See you.

Milton Allimadi (01:01:29.969)
At the end of the day, just need to remember a few points. Number one, we have the resources that the whole world wants. And as Dr. John Henry Clark said, the whole world doesn't want to pay for it. Number one. Number two, we have talented Africans on the continent and all over the world. Number three,

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:58.061)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:02:01.264)
We need to resist demonization and its impact on our minds. Right? And I'll you an example of what proper organization can do.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:14.721)
Yep, yeah, very important.

Milton Allimadi (01:02:23.824)
Cuba is under a lot of duress right now and mainly because of the embargo that is faced from the United States for decades now. But Cuba with limited resources able to organize a society that had functioned much much more effectively than many African countries that had much much more resources.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:30.061)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:02:54.201)
Right?

Because our problem is that we tend to de-emphasize the importance of African solutions. So we don't have a lot of confidence in our own capabilities and that of other Africans. We think something has to be endorsed by Europe or Europeans for it to be good.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:25.652)
For you to

Milton Allimadi (01:03:27.178)
and effective and validated. You see? So there's a very interesting interview of the late Molina Julian Senor by Said Nakvi and I strongly recommend that. Said is spelled S-A-E-E-D and the last name is Nakvi, N-A-C-Q-V-I.

the Indian journalists who interviewed Nero in the 1980s. And Nero said a couple of things, which I never forget when I look at that interview. He says, we have a lot of the resources within these so-called third world countries, but we're always looking to the West, the so-called first world, so that even if India had technology,

that could be very effective to Tanzania and other African countries. Brazil had the same. We're not gonna look to India or Brazil. It has to be from Europe, from England, from the United States. It's a very African mentality. We need to discard that. He said, in fact, we have not maximized our capabilities and

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:31.991)
or look to.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:49.763)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:04:55.627)
the use of our resources internally. So that's where we have to start. So you go back to that lesson. And then he gave one other final point. said, and he understands where it comes from because for many years, your value had been crushed, self-esteem, you know? So we need to cover that. You know, we need to recover that rather. So he said when he was mobilizing for independence, right,

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:58.915)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:03.575)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:05:24.96)
before it was Taganyika, before they became independent and then united with Zanzibar to become Tanzania. But he would travel and tour all over the country and talk about how he's leading the country to independence from Britain. He said in some places people would say, Mo'livo.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:31.839)
That is in it, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (01:05:49.152)
This independence thing, that sounds like a massive job. Are you sure?

Are you sure we can handle this thing?

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:01.636)
Mmm. Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:06:04.96)
But he understood. Said for years the African had been taught that he has no value. Everything of value is European. has to be led and governed by the European. has to be educated by the European. The ideal vision of the world is European. So he could understand where they were coming from.

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:21.795)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:29.123)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (01:06:30.302)
And it was saying, you know, but that's where we started from. So when we assess African achievement, African failure and all that, we have to take the burden, you know, that they inherited into consideration as well. So that's how we like to end, know. We have challenges, but we have tremendous potential. We just need to the proper approach. And it starts with 100 %

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:50.381)
Yeah, and.

Milton Allimadi (01:06:59.539)
confidence, you

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:01.859)
And to add to what you just said, I would advise a read or reread of Ongo Gigiwathe Ongo's Decolonizing the Mind or Something Turned and New. If you can get both of them, fine, but Decolonizing the Mind is very instructive, very, very instructive.

Milton Allimadi (01:07:15.334)
Absolutely.

Milton Allimadi (01:07:25.833)
Absolutely.

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:27.395)
And yes, we've come to the end of another show. And if you like it here and this is your first time of joining us, do subscribe to the channel, like, share again, repeat, subscribe to the channel. We're aiming for 2000 this year. We achieved 1000 last year, 2000 this year. And the goal is there. And thank you all for coming through.

Comrade, thank you again for joining us and then, you know, sharing your insights and wisdom. And from me, from you.

Milton Allimadi (01:08:01.619)
My question.

My pleasure. Happy New Year once again to all of our guests and our viewers.

Adesoji Iginla (01:08:11.337)
And from me, again, happy new year. And as we were saying, you're about to get back on. See you next week and good night for now.