EP 4 Historic Court Ruling Confronts Belgium's Colonial Legacy I African News Review 🌍

In this episode of African News Review, host Adesoji Iginla and guest Milton Allimadi discuss significant recent events in Africa, focusing on Belgium's historic ruling regarding crimes against humanity in the Congo, the struggles of biracial children in Kenya, and the election of Namibia's first female president. 

They explore the implications of colonialism, the need for reparations, and the importance of understanding African history in the context of these events.

In this conversation, Milton Allimadi and Adesoji Iginla discuss the historical context of apartheid in South Africa, the empowerment of women in African leadership, and the importance of confronting historical injustices. They explore the systemic denial and division that perpetuates economic stress and social unrest in contemporary society. 

The dialogue also touches on the future of US-Africa relations, the role of women in African economies, and the responsibility of African leadership in addressing these challenges. The episode concludes with a tribute to Robert Sobukwe, highlighting his legacy in the Pan-African movement.

Takeaways

*Belgium's ruling sets a precedent for colonial accountability.
*The compensation awarded is minimal compared to the crimes committed.
*The ruling opens the door for other victims of colonialism to seek justice.
*Kenya faces similar issues with children of British soldiers.
*The Kenyan government prioritizes financial agreements over justice for victims.
*Historical context is crucial in understanding current events in Africa.
*The narrative of independence often overlooks the contributions of other nations.
*Anti-African sentiment in South Africa is distressing given its history.
*Education on African history is essential for future generations.
*Cuba played a significant role in the liberation of Southern Africa. 
*Young people should not be intimidated by their governments.
*Women have a crucial role in transforming Africa.
*Historical injustices must be confronted for progress.
*The system often promotes division among marginalized groups.
*Economic stress is manipulated to distract from systemic issues.
*US-Africa relations should focus on mutual benefit, not exploitation.
*Women are the backbone of African economies.
*Leadership in Africa must be accountable and effective.
*Imperialism benefits from maintaining the status quo.
*Robert Sobukwe's legacy is vital for understanding African unity.

Chapters

00:00 Colonial Accountability: Belgium's Historic Ruling
13:26 The Legacy of Colonialism in Kenya
27:50 Namibia's First Female President: A New Era?
33:11 The Defeat of Apartheid: Lessons from History
36:01 Empowering Women in African Leadership
39:13 Confronting Historical Injustices
41:05 The System of Denial and Division
44:45 Economic Stress and Social Unrest
48:00 The Future of US-Africa Relations
51:39 The Role of Women in African Economies
55:30 The Responsibility of African Leadership
56:26 Remembering Robert Sobukwe: A Legacy of Pan-Africanism

Transcript

Adesoji Iginla (00:02.635)
Yeah, greetings, greetings and welcome again to African News Review, our weekly conversation in which we take a look at the coverage of Africa in the Western media and deconstruct stories. I am your host, Adesuji Ginla, and with me as usual is a publisher, Black Star News journalist, author of How Manufacturing Hates, How the Media, you know, and

He's everything. He's also an explorer in his own private times. He's currently putting in the work at Howard University for his soon to be PhD. And he's none other than our guesting Comrade Milton Alimati. Welcome.

Milton Allimadi (00:48.685)
Thank you.

Adesoji Iginla (00:52.657)
Yes, it's been a very eventful week in the Western press. And for our first story, we go to Financial Times, in which we learn that Belgium has been found guilty of crimes against humanity. And the story goes, Belgium found guilty of crimes against humanity in Congo. Ruling overturns previous judgment.

and set a precedent for the victims of colonial rule.

And it goes in. Belgium has been found guilty of crimes against humanity for the kidnapping of mixed-race children in the Congo, the first time the country has been held accountable for its actions as a colonial power. In a final ruling on Monday, the Brussels Court of Appeal found that the abduction of mixed-race children is an inhumane and persecutory act, constituting a crime against humanity.

ordered the Belgian state to pay compensation of 50,000 euros to each of the plaintiffs. The rulings overturned a previous judgment in favor of the Belgian government. And it goes further. This sets a precedent that the African population can be a victim of crimes against humanity in the same way as the Shoal, which is the Holocaust, or the extermination of Roma people. said, Hesh being the lawyer for the plaintiffs. Five women burn

Congolese mothers and Belgian fathers in the former colony before it became independent in 1960 had sued the Belgian state. They had been taken away from their families in what is now the Democratic Republic of Congo and placed in religious institutions where they subject to abuse. The court said the plaintiffs had been taken from their respective mothers without their consent before the age of seven by the Belgian state in execution of a systematic plan to search and adopt children born to black mothers

Adesoji Iginla (02:56.489)
and a white father. Yes, sir. Your.

Milton Allimadi (02:59.674)
Okay, so obviously this, it's not so much the story itself, but it's as the lawyer also pointed out, the precedent that it now establishes, which is much more important, which is in fact that colonialism and the actions that attended colonialism in order to sustain it.

Adesoji Iginla (03:07.479)
Hmm.

Yep. Correct.

Milton Allimadi (03:27.625)
crimes against humanity. So this is very serious, this decision. And of course, it's about time and it's very welcome. The 50,000 euros or whatever pound, that amount, it's insignificant really compared to the magnitude of the crime itself. That's one part. I think...

Adesoji Iginla (03:31.543)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (03:53.941)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (03:57.691)
they should each get a minimum of one million with additional annual payments. And obviously, I can tell why that was not going to happen. Because there's an estimated other 20,000 of such victims. it would...

Adesoji Iginla (04:09.239)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (04:20.023)
Correct. Correct.

Milton Allimadi (04:24.26)
bankrupt the Belgian state. So that is why they're establishing it at 50,000. I still think they should be able to establish a mechanism. Whether they get 50,000 now, they should still have a stream of payments for the rest of their life. And if they're saying they can't... Sorry?

Adesoji Iginla (04:31.563)
thousand.

Adesoji Iginla (04:45.825)
So would you extend the same cut C to the other 50,000?

Milton Allimadi (04:50.766)
I'm sorry?

Adesoji Iginla (04:53.227)
Would you extend the same cut-scene of the first payment? Yeah, okay.

Milton Allimadi (04:55.083)
or it's not a courtesy, it's a right. It's a right that's now been established by the court. And I guarantee you that lawyers email has now been completely flooded with additional requests. I can already see Congolese lawyers going around all over the country to

Adesoji Iginla (05:11.137)
Ha ha!

take the case forward.

Adesoji Iginla (05:20.759)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (05:24.196)
to get other survivors, other victims. So this is only the beginning. That's number one. Number two, obviously it also now raises questions for, because obviously that was not the only Belgian colony, right?

Adesoji Iginla (05:30.389)
Hmm. Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (05:47.383)
Correct, correct, correct.

Milton Allimadi (05:47.65)
What about the ones in what was Rwanda, Burundi? Now Rwanda and Burundi. That's number two. Number three, what about the other European powers who also colonized Africa and whose soldiers or whose officials also had the same conduct? They fathered.

children and abandon the children. So that's going to be the next stories to follow. And then the third part of course is now that you've acknowledged that colonialism is a crime against humanity, what about the other victims of colonialism? The millions of Africans who are victims of colonial

Adesoji Iginla (06:20.864)
Hmm

Milton Allimadi (06:46.06)
conquest, colonial destruction, colonial domination. It's very difficult for you to make the argument that we only going to compensate the children whose fathers were European. Because now you're creating another hierarchy.

Adesoji Iginla (06:50.871)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (07:13.003)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (07:14.442)
of special victims, you know, because they were the offspring of European men, you know, whether it's by forced, you know, relations, rapes, you're going to compensate them, but you're not going to compensate millions of other Africans who suffered as a result of colonialism.

Adesoji Iginla (07:26.315)
Not freaking mothers.

Adesoji Iginla (07:32.961)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (07:42.572)
whose land stolen, displaced, land was seized from them, they were forced to to sell their labor for wages, otherwise they would be physically punished or locked up, their culture destroyed, their spirituality destroyed. So now you have to take a true colonial accounting. You cannot do a partial accounting.

Adesoji Iginla (07:49.173)
You

Adesoji Iginla (07:55.569)
servants on their own land? Yep.

Milton Allimadi (08:12.574)
and say we are only going to compensate these particular victims. The rest who suffer different aspects, you can't say that it was only the crime of forced sex that we are going to recognize as a colonial crime. All other crimes should not be recognized. So I'll be very interested to see how this process evolves.

Adesoji Iginla (08:13.143)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (08:34.113)
falls on the false result yeah yeah yeah

Milton Allimadi (08:40.798)
in the many months and years ahead. This is only the beginning, is what I can say.

Adesoji Iginla (08:42.177)
Hmm

Adesoji Iginla (08:47.009)
So one more question on that account. It says they were placed in religious institutions and I know the religious institution that played a key role in the Congo at that time was the Catholic Church. Would you also be right for these victims now that they've won one against the state to go against the religious institutions?

Milton Allimadi (09:07.71)
I'm willing to bet you that this lawyer Hirsch has already started that process. I cannot imagine a person like me who is not even a lawyer just thinking that that's what I would do and a person who's actually already won one aspect of this case has already not done that and has been in the process of doing that already.

Adesoji Iginla (09:15.733)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (09:20.854)
Hahaha!

Adesoji Iginla (09:26.199)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (09:33.961)
and

Milton Allimadi (09:34.038)
I would be shocked if that were not the case. So that's why I'm saying we're going to hear a lot more emanating from this ruling, which by the way was an appeal. The initial decision was against these victims. You know, it went on appeal and then the appeal reversed that previous decision.

Adesoji Iginla (09:52.947)
Yeah, against the women.

Adesoji Iginla (10:00.183)
The earlier decision. Yeah. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (10:00.866)
So of course, imperialism, colonialism was fighting until the very end, until this decision came forward.

Adesoji Iginla (10:13.257)
I I would just add some historical pointers. The entire abduction of children started in 1948 and lasted up to 1960. The rule then was there should be no relations between Africans and the Belgians. Where that were to happen, the kids were allowed to be nursed up to the ages of six and seven and then taken.

But here was the thing, they were not just taken, the entire record was cropped from the registry. So effectively you've stolen them, you've stolen their identity, then taking them, almost you've made them stateless because one, they were not even recognized in Belgium. That's one of the most unnerving part of the entire episode.

And why was all of this? Simply because they felt the presence of these children undermines the idea of white supremacy. And so the state had to put a policy, this policy in place. And

Milton Allimadi (11:27.072)
No, that's fine. I appreciate that history, but I'm also at the same time suggesting that we should never discount the, for example, the millions of Congolese who were killed by Leopold's regime. When are we going to get compensation for that? So we need to elevate the argument collectively. Otherwise, we're giving them a way to say, okay,

Adesoji Iginla (11:36.183)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (11:43.553)
Yep.

Milton Allimadi (11:54.176)
We've now paid compensation. are putting this matter to rest. We're saying no. This is only the beginning. Let's start from the initial crime. When Leopold was in charge of that territory from 1885 to 1908, what about all those millions who were exterminated? So we need that accounting to be done as well.

Adesoji Iginla (12:01.399)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (12:15.927)
Hmm

Milton Allimadi (12:19.262)
and they also deserve compensation. And now that you've opened the door by acknowledging that colonialism is a crime, you cannot say, I'm going to be selective in terms of how we compensate. If you're not able to pay for the millions of victims of Leopold with one check, we are willing to have that discussion of an annual payment for however long it takes.

Adesoji Iginla (12:33.537)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (12:49.186)
So I think Congolese should now take it in that direction.

Adesoji Iginla (12:55.543)
Okay, speaking of children, let's go over to Kenya. Because Kenya has a similar type of problem on their hands and it's to do with, and this story comes from the AP. It says, it reads, headlined, left behind in Kenya, children of British soldiers struggle to find their identity. And the story is filed in by Desmond Hero.

Nayuki Kenya AP. Margres Wandler became pregnant after a weeks-long relationship with a British soldier training near her community in Kenya. They met while she worked at a bar in her early twenties. She knew little about him and he left her with a biracial child. Now the son is 26 and is part of an effort by Kenyan lawyer to take a number of such children to Britain. The goal is to confront authorities over hundreds of such cases.

reported over the years to find the fathers and seek their support.

The country's 44 million defense cooperation agreement was renewed in 2021 three years ago. It allowed up to 10,000 British forces to train for eight weeks in Kenya every year. Kenya's biracial children are part of a broader concern about the British mission, notably the persistent allegation of rape of local girls and women. There's another part here. So the case

is now being handled by Kenyan lawyer Kelvin Kubai, who represents 10 such children of visiting British forces. He asserted that not all of their previous relationships were consensual, which is what Comrade was saying earlier. In collaboration with a British firm he declined to name, he hopes to take some of the children to Britain next year and go to court. A British High Commission spokesperson in a statement to the AP said,

Adesoji Iginla (14:57.629)
It and the British military training mission in Kenya cooperates fully with local child support authorities where there are claims relating to paternity. The authorities didn't respond to questions. There was one last part I want us to read. And it goes in. Britain's defense ministry dismissed the rape cases as not genuine and an investigation by Royal Military Police in 2007

did not lead to compensation or justice for the victims. That is, allegations that happened between 1983 and 2003. The KNCHR said in a report to Kenya's parliament protesting a past renewal of the country's defense agreement, authorities also interfere, that is the Kenyan authorities, by compromising the local authorities, the human rights defenders on the ground.

were threatened and intimidated by both the BATUK and the Kenyan forces and Kenyan officials to ensure that justice is not reached," Matugi said. What is your take on this?

Milton Allimadi (16:09.676)
Well, it's obviously a similar situation to what we just discussed. And I'm almost positive that it's much more widespread. The issue not only of ending up impregnating these victims, but also the issues of rape that did not end up in any pregnancy.

Adesoji Iginla (16:14.593)
to the Congo,

Adesoji Iginla (16:23.061)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (16:30.679)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (16:38.224)
And obviously, this is an issue that the Kenyan government does not take seriously because to the Kenyan government it's much more important to get this, whatever amount it was, think 44 million from this agreement. And obviously, I mean, that's the problem that we have in many, I cannot imagine something like this happening under a leader like the late Thomas Sankara, for example.

Adesoji Iginla (16:38.698)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (16:44.983)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (16:51.063)
44 million

Milton Allimadi (17:06.986)
of Burkina Faso. at the end of the day, know, part of the bigger problem is, of course, our leaders as well. Because if these things are happening, you have the lawyer, and I think the firm is probably working with the British firm that it would not name. It's probably the same one that represented the elderly survivors who were tortured of the Kenya Land and Freedom Army.

Adesoji Iginla (17:16.119)
True, true, very much so.

Adesoji Iginla (17:27.063)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (17:34.945)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (17:35.108)
because that firm was able to secure a settlement of some millions of pounds or euros, I forget what it was, for those victims some years ago. So I'm almost positive that he's probably working with that same firm in the UK. And I don't see how they will not prevail, particularly if the crime is

Adesoji Iginla (17:41.569)
compensation.

Milton Allimadi (18:04.056)
is tried in the UK. In Kenya, the British would always just put, maybe they don't even have to put pressure. The Kenyan government itself would not vigorously pursue these crimes because as I said, to them, $44 million is much more important than absolutely.

Adesoji Iginla (18:07.191)
documented.

Yep. Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (18:19.991)
I'll put this

Adesoji Iginla (18:29.975)
44 million reasons why not to.

Milton Allimadi (18:32.822)
much more important than Kenyan women being violated by these Europeans. And that's at the end of it, that's statement of this whole thing. They're allowing it to continue by not revoking this contract.

Adesoji Iginla (18:38.4)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (18:44.637)
indictment.

Adesoji Iginla (18:54.817)
So one final question on that attic.

Aside from the fact that obviously it's taking a legal round, what do think the citizens should do with regards to their government in particular?

Milton Allimadi (19:14.144)
Well, you know, you can tell by the story that this is not...

Milton Allimadi (19:21.002)
an issue that gets ordinary Kenyans all excited. First of all, they also face discrimination from fellow Kenyans. They're seen as outcasts. I remember many years ago, when I lived in Tanzania, I think the word they used, a derogative term, it's called...

Adesoji Iginla (19:24.247)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (19:36.129)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (19:48.78)
or something like that. You're half cast, you know? And you know, it goes back to the victims blaming the victims, you know. You know, I may be a victim, you know, I'm in a better condition than you are. So we need to educate our people a lot, too. Just like, you know, people discriminate against, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (19:52.371)
Yeah, yeah. Half gas, yeah. Or mulattoes.

Adesoji Iginla (20:04.367)
Hmm

Milton Allimadi (20:19.023)
albinos in many African countries. They're attacked, know, some are killed. Yeah, so national education on these issues, very important. But not with the type of governments we have in many African countries, you know. No, it's a serious issue. We want, we have governments

Adesoji Iginla (20:22.518)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (20:28.833)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (20:42.295)
You

Milton Allimadi (20:47.555)
that claim to be African, but they take their cues and their conduct from Europeans and behave like Europeans. So why were you fighting for independence now? As Fanon said, if you want to recreate Europe in Africa, then let the Europeans do it. He said they're far much better than the most capable.

Adesoji Iginla (21:10.679)
Let the Europeans do it.

Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (21:16.247)
of any one of us. And that would explain a lot of the problems we have on our beloved continent.

Adesoji Iginla (21:22.049)
You

Mmm.

Yes. again, Kenya, I mean, we could just look back in history and look at how Kenyans turned on Kenyans with regards to the land question. you know, some of their greats actually living outside of the country. late, I say late, Ongugiwa Fiongo is an example.

So, and he continues to write, still waxing lyrical. Hopefully, the children see justice, or some form of justice. In some cases, all they want is recognition of their humanity, and not even money.

Milton Allimadi (22:14.317)
No, that's not enough. They need to go beyond that because it's very similar to what happened in South Africa. So you have European imperialism, you come there, you conduct ethnic cleansing, you steal people's land, you steal their property, you steal their livestock, and you impoverish them. So now they're forced to sell their wages for you.

Adesoji Iginla (22:38.007)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (22:43.199)
at, you know, you set the wage rate yourself, correct? So now you've deprived them of their assets, and now you're exploiting them through the wage labor. And then, at one point, you have so-called independence. So the Europeans who are now administering the state are replaced by Africans.

Adesoji Iginla (22:44.745)
Hmm. Rock bottom prices. Yeah. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (22:59.691)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (23:05.804)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (23:11.651)
And that's it. End of problems, end of story. That's absolute nonsense, of course. And that's why we're having so many of these problems and why there's a common theme. You know, why when you examine Uganda, you can understand what's going on in Kenya. You examine Kenya, you can understand what's going on in South Africa. You know, we never really went all the way to secure independence.

We just change the managers of the state. So that in Kenya, if you look at the land ownership, why should it be wrong that European usurpers should be owning and controlling the land, but it's somehow okay for African usurpers to be owning and controlling the land? The elite who inherited the state.

Adesoji Iginla (23:41.559)
dependency.

Milton Allimadi (24:10.693)
in 1916. And that's why there was a major falling out between Kenyatta and Odinga, his vice president, who also, of course, the Americans never liked because they are like, you know, was a socialist and couldn't be having that. You know, he's going to be bringing, you know, Soviet and Chinese influence in Kenya. We don't need that. So they were very

Adesoji Iginla (24:29.054)
socialist.

Milton Allimadi (24:39.914)
strong in helping to push out Odinga from government. But that's one of the arguments he made in his book, Not Yet a Huru, that we can't just not address the land issue and think, okay, now we have Africans running the state and that's the end of it. And obviously people like that, pay the price. It was sidelined, it was locked up for some time.

Adesoji Iginla (25:07.415)
true.

Milton Allimadi (25:08.34)
They never contributed at a major level in Kenya's national development ever again after that. South Africa, we are seeing it unfold right in front of our eyes. We are seeing what happened in the 1960s, the counterrevolution that happened in South Africa. As you know, Steve Biko warned that this would happen.

Adesoji Iginla (25:17.631)
That's the Beko also on the-

Milton Allimadi (25:36.965)
If we think that ending apartheid is just replacing white managers of the state with Africans, then what's going to happen is you're going to emerge a small, very wealthy African elite. And that's going to be the end of it. But we'll have the same problem. And that's precisely. In fact, it's gone even beyond what Biko imagined. Now we have an alliance of the so-called Liberation Party.

Adesoji Iginla (25:52.247)
Which is the case? Which is the case now?

the case. That's precisely the situation.

Milton Allimadi (26:05.86)
with the remnants of the apartheid party forming a government of national unity. So the ANC, given the choices, did not say, no matter how much enmity we have with Zuma, no matter how much difference we have with Malema, let's bring these Africans into government so we can have a government of national unity and continue.

Adesoji Iginla (26:20.459)
We'll go with the Oppresso.

Adesoji Iginla (26:27.543)
with EFF.

Adesoji Iginla (26:34.089)
No.

Milton Allimadi (26:35.407)
Pro-Africa policies. No. Nobody put a gun, a battle of a gun to their head. They went and formed a government with the Democratic Alliance, the European South African Party. So I'm telling you, we are seeing interesting things unfolding.

Adesoji Iginla (26:48.405)
an alliance.

the alliance.

Adesoji Iginla (27:00.801)
Mmm.

Yes, we've come to the halfway point at which we have to ask if you find value in what you're watching, do hit the like button, subscribe. We're on our way to get into the 1000 mark. In fact, we need only 15 new subscribers to get to 1000. So if you're new here and you find value, hit the subscriber button.

Yes. Thank you. Thank you for that. And now for going back to South Africa, Southern Africa, that is. We go for our next story with...

the record breaking.

The story comes from the BBC and it's titled From Freedom Fighter to Namibia's First Female President. its nickname, NNN, Netumo Nandi Noatuwa, has made history by being the first Namibian first female president. The 72-year-old won more than 57 % of the vote with her closest rival, Peduleni Itula.

Adesoji Iginla (28:25.259)
getting 26 % according to the Electoral Commission.

However, it is just the latest episode in a life packed with striking events. Nandi Twada has fought against occupying powers, fled into exile and established herself as one of the most prominent women in Namibian politics. However, her opponent has rejected the victory. He said the election was deeply flawed, following logistical problems and a three day extension to polling in some parts of the country.

His independent Patriots for Change, IPC party said it will challenge the results in the court. Nandi Iduana had been a loyal member of the governing party Swapo since she was a teenager and pled to lead Namibia's economic transformation. There's a part here I highlighted for you, which is, so it goes into the story of how she became president from age of 14.

she got involved, her political career, but there is a key part of the rewriting of history here. Then in 1988, 14 years after Nandi Inada fled the country, South Africa finally agreed to Namibia's independence. Over to you.

Milton Allimadi (29:47.232)
Okay, so comrade, I was waiting for you to say that because I don't know if you can read this.

Adesoji Iginla (29:51.532)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (29:54.913)
You

Good. Give me second.

Milton Allimadi (30:01.248)
And I wrote and I underlined, South Africa finally agreed to Namibia's independence. And then I wrote exclamation mark crazy with exclamation mark next to it.

Adesoji Iginla (30:02.933)
I can see.

Adesoji Iginla (30:09.911)
You

Adesoji Iginla (30:14.807)
Does everything happen here? If you can see, can you see? It's, it's starred. Can you see that?

Milton Allimadi (30:17.344)
I mean, yeah, sometimes these European media are like comedians,

Adesoji Iginla (30:27.479)
You

Milton Allimadi (30:29.13)
South Africa agreed to independence from Namibia. And that white washes and disappears, Quito Quanavel. It disappears Cuba. It disappears the humiliating defeat of the apartheid South African army in Namibia. But that is why we have this conversation, you know? And that is why we always stress

Adesoji Iginla (30:38.071)
Thank you very much. Go on, on, pretty hell.

Adesoji Iginla (30:51.489)
Thank you.

Milton Allimadi (30:58.303)
to our younger generation, you must know your African history. You must know your African history. You must know that, which is actually a total shame when you look at the...

Adesoji Iginla (31:05.207)
Choo choo choo.

Milton Allimadi (31:15.071)
xenophobia, anti-Africa, anti-black xenophobia in South Africa today. know, South Africa today obviously is not fully independent, but it's not fully apartheid either. What existed before 1990, correct? And that was accomplished because from the minute

Adesoji Iginla (31:33.079)
Neither. It's a hybrid.

Milton Allimadi (31:42.877)
that Ghana won its independence. Nkrumah said our independence is meaningless without the total liberation of Africa.

Adesoji Iginla (31:50.948)
Nill less. Could you repeat that line please? Our

Milton Allimadi (31:53.801)
Ghana's independence is meaningless without the total liberation of Africa. So Nkrumah and many, other African leaders, even the reactionary ones, except of course people like Kamuzubanda who are complete lost causes, contributed their intellectual and material resources to the liberation of Southern Africa.

Adesoji Iginla (32:11.915)
Well, of course, course, of course. No, man.

Adesoji Iginla (32:20.279)
Serial resources,

Milton Allimadi (32:23.688)
They sent money, they provided training for the guerrilla fighters, bases, and many of them, the neighboring countries, lost many of their citizens because South Africa would launch bombing campaigns, South African, Rhodesia. These are European apartheid states in Africa armed by the West.

So without the sacrifice of the rest of the African continent, apartheid would have continued much longer. So it's really distressing and shameful to see the anti-Africa xenophobia in South Africa. And South Africa and Namibia would not have secured their independence when they did had it not been for the sacrifice of Cuba. Cuba.

Adesoji Iginla (33:05.537)
So they didn't agree.

Adesoji Iginla (33:11.031)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (33:22.459)
with thousands of soldiers overwhelmingly defeated helped Angola and Swapo and the ANC, Konto with Israel, defeat the South African apartheid. The mighty army, which had intimidated, by the way, and this is also another statement. And I want young people.

to not be intimidated by your governments. You know, we have many of these authoritarian dictators. They're actually cowards at the end of the day. Why do I say that?

They help prolong apartheid by not engaging the South African military. Because they always heard, this mighty South African army comparable to European militaries. They do joint exercise with Israel, which is all true.

Cuba, tiny country, even today, Cuba's population is probably less than 15 million.

went and dealt this so-called mighty army a singular defeat. And that is why they withdrew from Namibia. Namibia became independent. That is why they went home and they said, you know what? This Castro guy is crazy. He could follow us back home to South Africa. And that would not be nice. So let's release this old man. They released Mandela, 1990.

Adesoji Iginla (34:53.623)
Thank you very much. Thank you.

Milton Allimadi (35:01.851)
three years after the defeat at Quito, Kwanawa. And, of course, 1994 he became president. Obviously, he was very senior citizen by that time. He has left the rest of the liberation struggle to the younger generation. And that is why we implore them to continue. We're in terms of the election of Netumbo Ndaitwa, of course, is welcome because that sends a good message to young girls.

Adesoji Iginla (35:10.519)
President of South Africa.

Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (35:19.837)
and

Milton Allimadi (35:32.45)
and to women throughout Africa. We had leaders like Thomas Sankara who was very good in recognizing the power and value of the women of Africa. And he fully embraced them. He fully embraced them in the struggle to transform Burkina Faso. This has not been sufficiently done in many African countries where the power

Adesoji Iginla (35:33.665)
that anything is possible. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (35:44.875)
of women.

Adesoji Iginla (35:49.066)
He did call them the mothers of revolution.

Milton Allimadi (36:01.517)
the potential of and girls even are still undervalued and underutilized. So that's how we should see this election.

Adesoji Iginla (36:04.855)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (36:15.243)
Yes. Namibia actually became independent March 21st 1990. Yes, March 21st 1990. I still remember. There's another part about the Namibian question that I think is often overlooked. Again, part of the whitewashing. Is the grave injustice that was done to the Namibians, the Hereros and the Namas, which

Milton Allimadi (36:41.753)
course.

Adesoji Iginla (36:45.473)
is one of the reasons why the land

question. Where is it held in that region, the southern part of Africa? I mean, we'll come into it when we take some other stories. But I just want to quickly underscore that point. The next story comes from just north of Namibia, and it's Angola. And it's from Uncle Joe. Who goes to

He's been in Angola recently. And this is one story that jumped out at me with regards to his travel. He says, in Angola, Biden wants that slavery history should not be erased. In becoming the first American leader to visit Angola, President Biden said it was important not to forget the ugly legacy that originally defined relations with Africa.

And the story is filed in by Zolan Cannon-Youngs and Peter Berker. When American presidents visit another country, they typically like to highlight the positive history they share. But as the first leader of the United States to visit Angola, President Biden opted instead to focus on the most bitter chapter that connects the United States and this giant Southern African nation. At the National Museum of Slavery in Capital,

the capital, Luanda, Mr. Biden recalls a speech. The Biden's decision to emphasize the connection served not only as a nod to the wound inflicted on the generations of Africans, but also as a statement of principle in the contemporary debate on the way in his own country about how to teach and remember history, at a time when some Republicans have sought to limit instruction about slavery and other shameful chapters of American history.

Adesoji Iginla (38:45.739)
Mr. Biden argued for confronting the past. He says, and I quote, I have learned that while history can be hidden, it cannot and should not be erased. Close quote. The president told an audience at the museum when he was joined by several black Americans whose descendants were enslaved in, I think it meant ancestors, not descendants, in Angola and trafficked across the Atlantic Ocean.

It should be faced. It is our duty to face our history, the good, the bad, and the ugly. The whole fruit. And that is what great nations do.

your initial assessment. There's a path there I want to also go into.

Milton Allimadi (39:28.023)
All right, so there's not a debate. So that word is totally misplaced. There are reactionaries who ponder to base elements. Revisionists, they provoke or invoke racism.

Adesoji Iginla (39:50.934)
history.

Milton Allimadi (39:59.031)
I dunno.

They're deniers, right?

Adesoji Iginla (40:04.823)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (40:05.782)
So it's not, when you say a debate, it makes it look as if it's a contentious issue. Was there enslavement? Of course there was enslavement. Was that also a crime against humanity? Of course the answer is yes. Would it be acceptable if the enslavers were Africans and the Europeans were the ones working on the plantation and being raped and being whipped?

Adesoji Iginla (40:24.0)
Yep.

Milton Allimadi (40:35.539)
being killed, being forced to renounce their spirituality, their languages, their culture, being sold on the auction block. And then at the end you said, by the way, you learned some skills as a result of that. So that whole issue can be destroyed very quickly in one minute, as I just attempted to do.

Adesoji Iginla (40:43.937)
Mm. Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (40:49.313)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (41:05.493)
No European would accept to reverse those roles. So that should be sufficient to answer and say there was no such thing, there's no such thing as a debate about this. But here is the other thing.

Rodney said the system always finds answers, right? So in terms of in Africa, you kick the Europeans out of the political leadership. So what? The Europeans found answers. They co-opted and installed and sustained in power.

Adesoji Iginla (41:30.773)
away. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (41:51.326)
people with African bodies but with European minds. You see? That was the system finding answers. So now you find here you also have the system finding answers.

Adesoji Iginla (41:56.119)
minds.

Adesoji Iginla (42:00.769)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (42:06.855)
There's a lot of people are economically stressed out. So what do you do? The system, which are the beneficiaries, right, of exploitation, the wealthiest elite in this country.

They promote intra-conflict between the victims. So even impoverished Europeans, same victims of the elite, can now somehow feel they're in a better position by demonizing African descendants in this country.

Adesoji Iginla (42:35.511)
Yep.

Milton Allimadi (42:54.173)
They're so angry, you can peddle to them. Denial, even though they know, of course, that probably treating other human beings like worse than dogs is probably not a good thing.

Adesoji Iginla (42:54.999)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (43:09.787)
But you can get them to say, could not have been that bad, right? Because of the situation in which they now find themselves, not knowing that the common enemy is actually the 1 % that is sucking up all the wealth. You know, they used to call it about trickle down, right? Now it's just suck it all up, which is what's been happening.

Adesoji Iginla (43:15.67)
Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (43:34.013)
good economics.

Adesoji Iginla (43:40.428)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (43:40.528)
So now you can blame people coming across the borders.

when in fact the estimated number of undocumented immigrants in this country is 10, 11 million. Let's even double it. Let's say it's 20 million. It's a country of a population of more than 330 million. Are you telling me that the 20 million, lowly paid, sometimes not even paid, because remember, undocumented.

If the employer says, I can't pay you this week, he's not going to argue. He's not going to go to the authorities, right? Are you telling me that these are the people that are causing the economic stress in this country? Of course not. But the system is very clever in demonizing and in divide and rule. And that is why the system has been sustained for quite a long time. So now, of course,

Adesoji Iginla (44:20.641)
I'm not gonna argue.

Adesoji Iginla (44:24.683)
Yeah, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (44:43.383)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (44:45.272)
It won't change just by itself. Leadership must emerge among the victims. That explains that you as an impoverished Latino, Latina, or European descendant

You... We are not your enemies. You're not our enemies.

And...

Milton Allimadi (45:14.415)
I'm sure you follow this incident, right?

the shooting a few days ago.

of the CEO of a healthcare company, health insurance company.

Adesoji Iginla (45:29.909)
in New York, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (45:32.952)
Do you know that if you go on social media, so many people are actually celebrating the assassin as a hero?

Adesoji Iginla (45:41.035)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (45:44.344)
Can you imagine?

Adesoji Iginla (45:44.407)
Yes, that's state of affairs. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (45:47.938)
That tells you the kind of conditions that have been created in this country.

by all the world sucked up stairs, and then by people seeing that this is my strategy to also join the elite.

you know, demonize victims while the elite are completely secured. But now, when you start having incidents like that, people are going to start thinking, hmm.

Milton Allimadi (46:20.674)
Because now people are coming out with those stories of how they've been victimized, denied healthcare, even though they had legitimate claims.

and the CEO of that company is seeing as the symbol of that excess and he's not even the highest paying. I think it was paid 10 million. I think there's another one who's paid about 25 million. see? Obviously nobody here is saying you have to start going and shooting elite CEOs. I'm just describing what has just happened.

Adesoji Iginla (46:46.647)
10 million a year.

Adesoji Iginla (46:58.346)
I hope not.

Milton Allimadi (47:00.787)
and how people are reacting to that. And I'm suggesting that there has to be lessons in that. You have to start asking why are these things happening? How could somebody forget like many people, but not even a single person celebrating the shooting of a CEO in his back? That should be a very, very stark warning to the establishment and what is going on in this country.

Adesoji Iginla (47:04.567)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (47:29.203)
very soon, I'm suggesting it's not going to be enough to keep thinking you can just blame the victims, saying, let's tear up these African history books, black history books, let's burn them, take them off the libraries. These are just distractions. And very soon you're going to run out of these distractions. And you must start dealing with the real issues that are bedeviling this country.

Adesoji Iginla (47:30.411)
days

Adesoji Iginla (47:45.089)
the shelf.

Adesoji Iginla (47:59.095)
There's a last paragraph there that is quite telling. It says, the United States is expanding our relationship all across Africa. From assistance to aid, investment to trade, moving from patrons to partners to help bridge the infrastructure gap, he said. The right question in 2024 is not what can the United States do for the people of Africa. It is what we can do together for the people

of Africa.

What's your take there? Because I'm looking at that statement through a historical lens. But I'll defer to you first.

Milton Allimadi (48:39.133)
Well, I can make it much easier without it even going very far in history.

the West.

will not industrialize Africa or assist in the industrialization of Africa. China will not do it either, but we can make them do it and we're not doing that. Why would Biden or any US president want Angola to become industrialized or any African country

Adesoji Iginla (48:57.911)
Yep.

Milton Allimadi (49:18.043)
and deprive US manufacturers the market for their products. Just ask yourself that. Any African listening to this? It's suicidal. This is a capitalist country. His job is to go and open markets for US producers. The job of his commerce secretary. The job of his

Adesoji Iginla (49:18.668)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (49:38.163)
Nuckitz.

Adesoji Iginla (49:45.953)
Yep.

Milton Allimadi (49:46.683)
entire administration when it comes to foreign policy. Right?

So that is why they're investing in the rail so that they can continue to extract unprocessed what they call raw materials. And they call it raw to make it sound as if it's not valuable. And we also accept and we use that term. You see?

Adesoji Iginla (49:59.585)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (50:06.647)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (50:12.596)
You

Adesoji Iginla (50:16.929)
Mm. Mm.

Milton Allimadi (50:18.342)
they should be referring to it as valuable minerals, not raw materials.

Adesoji Iginla (50:24.225)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (50:26.332)
Because without the valuable minerals, the industrialized countries would not be able to produce the valuable manufactured products. So it starts from the mind. That's where it should start.

But

Adesoji Iginla (50:45.111)
Okay, gone.

Milton Allimadi (50:46.812)
Collectively not individually African country can say okay. You need the lithium You need cobalt You need copper

which one of you is willing to pay cash and pay with technology as well?

Which one of you is going to give me?

Milton Allimadi (51:09.645)
X million dollars for this quantity and five factories.

Milton Allimadi (51:20.752)
And one of them will start offering it.

And the other time I thought, no, no, no, no, no, why five? Make it 10. 10 factories, right?

You know, women...

who are the backbone of African economies.

because the informal sector is so large. Go to any African country. I don't know what you call it. In my tongue, we call it soup.

Milton Allimadi (51:56.857)
which is a market. You see? Yeah, think in Kiswahili, I think it's souk as well.

Adesoji Iginla (51:57.847)
In my place, call it Oja. Yeah, markets. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (52:06.654)
and they're there bargaining and negotiating.

Milton Allimadi (52:14.198)
and always getting the best deal that they can. Right? And they're good at it.

Adesoji Iginla (52:19.039)
Mm. Yep.

Milton Allimadi (52:23.95)
But we have these, in many cases unfortunately, not even representative leaders, people who just seize power. So when you seize power, you don't have the incentive to even do the right thing. Why should you? You see? So we have to make the cost of being a president in an African country, you have to make it very expensive, very tough, very hard for them.

Adesoji Iginla (52:37.303)
to do anything.

Milton Allimadi (52:51.236)
not just come they can think and they can just sit there you know that's why I'm always denouncing you know dictators like Museveni in power for 38 years when he came there he said all these African rulers are useless they stay too long in power he said that 38 years ago number one number two they cannot even produce a needle

Adesoji Iginla (53:02.743)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (53:19.172)
38 years later, he has not been able to produce a needle in Uganda.

Adesoji Iginla (53:24.671)
You know the worst part about what you just said now? He wrote a book. I forgot the title of the book. that... Yeah, what is Africa? Thank you very much. What is Africa problem? The title of the book is What is Africa Problem? The first chapter is the opening paragraph. The problem with Africa is that leaders stay too long.

Milton Allimadi (53:26.98)
You

Milton Allimadi (53:31.266)
What is Africa's problem?

And I said, you are the problem.

Milton Allimadi (53:48.544)
Yeah, so when he was challenged later on, said, no, no, no, I meant to say stay too long without being elected. man, these characters are just, know.

Adesoji Iginla (53:57.877)
you

You

So I was going to give a historical context to Angola, which regards to when he said partnership and not patrons, assistance and not aid and not assistance. You remember only one word, unita.

Milton Allimadi (54:21.367)
Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (54:23.627)
You literally tried to destroy that country, that country, Angola.

Milton Allimadi (54:26.846)
and destroyed Mozambique completely with renamo.

Adesoji Iginla (54:29.959)
and destroy Mozambique. So sometimes these statements made in a void sounds very comfy. You literally had this guy in the White House give him weapons, some of which Africans have never seen, to go and destroy his own country. That's all I want to say with regards to

Milton Allimadi (54:36.513)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (54:53.718)
Yeah, yeah. At the same time, as I said much, earlier, imperialism has no incentive to change what benefits imperialism.

Adesoji Iginla (54:59.957)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (55:06.647)
Sure.

Milton Allimadi (55:07.233)
It is up to you, the victims, to change that. It is up to us to change rulers who cannot deliver, or are not prepared to deliver, or are not constituted sufficiently to be able to deliver.

Adesoji Iginla (55:11.223)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (55:30.566)
Otherwise, we are as much to blame as well. Can't just be sitting there condemning imperialism when imperialism is doing the job of imperialism.

Adesoji Iginla (55:31.031)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (55:42.43)
You know?

You can condemn a thief, but a thief will continue stealing because that is what the thief does.

Adesoji Iginla (55:47.115)
That is a-

Stealing, Until you get proactive.

Milton Allimadi (55:56.489)
Absolutely.

Adesoji Iginla (55:59.817)
Anyway, before we leave, we're going to do a special next week on the late Robert Obokwe, the African leader that the world has somewhat forgotten. That it's interesting we spoke about South Africa earlier and about all the trajectory that happened around the Southern African region. This man was the brain behind

most of those liberation struggles. And he was articulate about it to the point where when he wanted to make a point, he never quite raised his voice. So we're going to do a special on Sobukwe next week. But the reason why I bring him up is today, Friday being December 5, he would have been a hundred years old. Robert Sobukwe, would you like to say something about him?

Milton Allimadi (56:56.851)
Well, of course, he was very strong Pan-African. He believed in our United States of Africa. In preparation for our discussion next week, I suggest people go and read his 1955 speech at the launching of the Pan-Africanist Congress. It's a remarkable, remarkable speech. You know, I'm very saddened that apartheid was able to destroy him.

Adesoji Iginla (57:05.623)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (57:26.8)
I wish, you know, it's always easier to look back in retrospect, right? I wish I had actually escaped the country and come back at the head of a liberation army like Samora Michelle, like Agostino Neto, like Milka Cabral, like Robert Mugabe, Joshua Nkomo, you know?

Adesoji Iginla (57:34.135)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (57:41.866)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (57:49.086)
I make a cabral, yeah?

Adesoji Iginla (57:53.664)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (57:57.419)
Can I come on down?

Milton Allimadi (57:57.99)
Absolutely. He would have led very effectively a liberation army from exile. They destroyed him in prison. They probably poisoned him because there's one time where it's reported that he found crushed glass in his food. And what about the times he was not aware of it, you know. So who really knows what killed him? The city died of, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (58:03.991)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (58:24.791)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (58:27.645)
Cancer can be induced in many ways. So there was a severe blow to liberation struggle, just like a severe blow was the murder of Steve Biko, with whom he had met. Even though they were bad, they were able to meet secretly to discuss how to forge a unified front, which is what Biko was tirelessly working for as well.

Adesoji Iginla (58:29.707)
cancer.

Adesoji Iginla (58:41.196)
Be cool.

Adesoji Iginla (58:48.663)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (58:57.687)
And for me the worst part is, Havan now come away from apartheid. He's basically been written out of history. That's the sad part.

Milton Allimadi (59:08.506)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (59:13.242)
Yeah, because he insisted on African leadership or the Pan-Africanist Congress. And anyone who accepts African leadership was welcome to be a part of the Pan-Africanist Congress as well.

Adesoji Iginla (59:14.145)
You know, so.

Milton Allimadi (59:29.572)
and that did not sit well with the global establishment. You know, I felt he was asserting that aspect of Africa very well.

Adesoji Iginla (59:29.643)
Mm. Mm. Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (59:42.719)
agency. Yeah. Who are you to have agency?

Milton Allimadi (59:43.036)
But he was not against any quote unquote non-African because he said at the end of the day there's only the human race.

Europeans and Africans were part of that same human race, he said. It's a remarkable speech. Strongly recommend, 1955 speech at the inauguration.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:01.803)
Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:08.297)
And yes, we've come to the end of another episode of African News Review. We thank Comrade Milton Alimadi for sparing us another one eye in his beady shadow as he hits the books. And yes, next week we'll be doing Robots of Boukoué as the special. And you will find it very, information very, very detailed and

that I say very sad as well because of the stuff he had to go through, but also quite insightful song. Your last thoughts?

Milton Allimadi (01:00:51.236)
Kā luta kontinua.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:54.897)
as we say victory is set and thank you all for coming again please do like share and subscribe we're trying to get to a thousand subscribers and you believe we just have 15 to go so add hit the subscriber button and thank you for coming thank you for listening and once again it's good night for now and thank you for coming through