EP 2 Toppling Statues, Abductions and Media Wars I African News Review 🌍

In this conversation, Adesoji Iginla and Milton Allimadi discuss the implications of colonial history on contemporary Africa, particularly focusing on the recent toppling of a statue of Otto von Bismarck in Germany. They explore the symbolism of such actions and the ongoing impact of colonialism, including the role of media in shaping narratives about Africa.
The discussion highlights the need for decolonization of the mind and the importance of understanding the historical context of current events. In this conversation, the speakers discuss the impact of media on political narratives, the implications of Mali's new mining laws in the context of neocolonialism, the UK's sanctions against corrupt individuals, and the alarming trend of political abductions in East Africa.
They emphasize the need for a balanced media approach, the importance of African nations reclaiming their resources, and the dangers posed by oppressive regimes.
Takeaways

• The toppling of Bismarck's statue symbolizes a rejection of colonial legacy.
• Media narratives often serve specific agendas, particularly in the context of colonial history.
• Colonialism's impact is still felt in Africa today, manifesting in economic and cultural forms.
• The destruction of African governance and culture was a key aspect of colonialism.
• Symbolism in actions like statue toppling prompts deeper inquiries into history.
• The BBC's role in Africa has been both informative and propagandistic.
• Mental allegiance is crucial in the competition for influence in Africa.
• Colonialism established a tyrannical system that many post-colonial governments inherited.
• The media landscape in Africa is changing, with new players challenging traditional narratives.
• Understanding the historical context is essential for addressing contemporary issues in Africa. Corporate media in the U.S. prioritizes elite narratives over the needs of low-income people.
• Mali's new mining laws represent a significant step against neocolonialism.
• The UK is taking a firmer stance against money laundering and corruption.
• Political abductions are a growing concern in East Africa, particularly in Uganda and Kenya.
• Media's focus on profit can undermine the quality of journalism and democracy.
• The youth in Africa have a crucial role in demanding accountability from their governments.
• Sanctions against corrupt individuals should extend beyond high-profile cases.
• The historical context of abductions in Uganda and Kenya highlights ongoing political repression.
• Mali's actions could inspire other African nations to renegotiate their contracts with foreign companies.
• Understanding the hidden meanings in media narratives is essential for informed citizenship.

Chapters

00:00 Colonial Legacy and Symbolism
12:40  Media's Role in Shaping Narratives
26:42 The Impact of Propaganda on Perception
32:23 Media's Role in Political Narratives
37:08 Mali's Mining Laws and Neocolonialism
44:30 UK Sanctions and the Fight Against Corruption
52:33 Abductions and Political Oppression in East Africa

Transcript

Adesoji Iginla (00:01.495)
Greetings again and welcome to African News Review, a weekly conversation in which we take a look at the coverage of Africa in the Western media and construct the stories. I am your host as usual, Adesuji Ginla. And with me is none other than journalist and publisher of Black Star News, a broadcaster WBAI 99.5 FM dot org, New York radio, comrade Milton Alimadi.

Milton Allimadi (00:29.224)
Santisana as always man, good to see you again.

Adesoji Iginla (00:32.605)
It's always a pleasure to have you. Again, yes, we do what we do best. We go into the Western media. And for our first story today, it comes from The Telegraph from the UK newspaper. And it reads...

Adesoji Iginla (00:54.591)
Otto von Bismarck branded Colonizer as protesters toppled statue in Frankfurt, Germany. The 125 year old bronze statue was left lying on the ground with red paint sprayed all over the body, face and helmet. Germany's first chancellor, Otto von Bismarck, has been branded a colonizer by protesters who toppled and vandalized a monument dedicated to him in Frankfurt. Colonizer and anti-colonial

action was painted across the statue which police said had been the of its plinth before being pushed over Friday. The toppling came on the 140th anniversary of the start of the Berlin Conference which is seen as emblematic of Europe's 19th century colonisation of Africa. An unnamed group claimed responsibility writing on a far left website that Bismarck had initiated a violent conquest

and exploitation of the African continent, which led to years of systematic exploitation and enslavement. It goes further. Frank Grober, a local state deputy for the Hard Right Alternative for Germany, AFD, said this is part of the left-wing extremist culture war and an attack on our history and identity. I will hold my next reading for your initial take on

That article.

Milton Allimadi (02:23.824)
Well, can now, the suspicion flag can easily be raised when you hear it described that he's been branded as a colonizer. Branded as a colonizer, he hosted the meeting for colonization in Germany. It's just completely... And then when somebody from the far right says it's an attack on our history.

Adesoji Iginla (02:28.301)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (02:33.239)
You

Adesoji Iginla (02:38.402)
Hehehehehe

Okay?

Adesoji Iginla (02:53.505)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (02:53.776)
Obviously, this history should include Nazi Germany and the crimes committed by the Nazi regime. So is he saying that that part of the history cannot be attacked? Or is he saying it's only when the violence is directed against Africans that that part of the history should not be attacked? So it should be clarified. And that's why the article is also very weak. The article should have asked him, okay.

Adesoji Iginla (03:00.845)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (03:20.941)
and passive.

Milton Allimadi (03:23.443)
Not all aspects of our history should be celebrated. Should we celebrate the Nazi era? Yes? No? So you're saying we should celebrate the German colonization in Africa, which has a very bloody history? Right. So that's where we fill in the gaps for our audience, you know?

Adesoji Iginla (03:26.519)
Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (03:36.525)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (03:41.645)
I mean, when you talk about the bloody history, do you want to delve a little deeper?

Milton Allimadi (03:48.71)
Of course, absolutely. This Telegraph article is almost like a press release for the far right to sort of ameliorate the impact of this toppling of the statue of Bismarck, which I hope, of course, actually sparks more such actions throughout Germany and also inspires others in European countries and even in African countries to really...

Adesoji Iginla (04:16.205)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (04:19.124)
remove the symbols that still celebrate the colonial oppressors that celebrate enslavers, you know. So the article does not even mention the German massacre of people in Tanzania, in Germany, East Africa. It does not mention that, yeah, the genocide in Tanzania does not mention the genocide of the...

Herero and Nama people in what was German Southwest Africa, of course, which is now Namibia, even though Germany reluctantly has acknowledged that crime and, you know, even agreed to provide, they didn't call it reparations, but some sort of remuneration, although insignificant, it pales to the crime committed.

Adesoji Iginla (04:46.423)
maybe.

Africa.

Milton Allimadi (05:12.134)
So that's the problem with this article. But that's why we select these kind of articles. You cannot stop these kind of articles and stories from being published. We know their agenda. It is up to us to catch these types of articles and to deconstruct.

Adesoji Iginla (05:30.551)
Okay, I continue.

Milton Allimadi (05:31.758)
But I celebrate the toppling of the statue, as I said, and I hope it really makes other people in other locations, whether it's in Europe, whether it's in North America, whether it's in Africa or the Caribbean, know, oppressors are still held up in esteem or celebrated with monuments. Those monuments should be removed. If people say they capture a historical legacy,

Adesoji Iginla (05:35.639)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (06:00.334)
That's fine. Put them in the museums then. Remove them and take them to the museums where people can go and see them if they have, if they choose to do so. But don't put them in public display where everybody is obligated to see them.

Adesoji Iginla (06:00.685)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm

Adesoji Iginla (06:07.403)
instead of being glorified in public.

Adesoji Iginla (06:16.077)
Hmm. Okay. It's important to underscore the fact that this event is taking, I mean, this event has come into our consciousness again. We're talking now 140 years removed from the catastrophe that was visited on the continent in terms by nature of that conference.

Could you explain how the imposition of lines have created what we now have today in terms of displacement of people through the very act of colonization itself, settler colonialism that was imposed on top of that, and then subsequent post-Second World War, what you now have in terms of neocolonialism?

Milton Allimadi (07:08.161)
Well, I think the best way actually to save the long history is just to look at the contemporary manifestations, the impact of colonialism, the impact of enslavement on Africa. That impact.

Adesoji Iginla (07:12.685)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (07:16.333)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (07:23.738)
is still with us because in reality colonialism has not ended in Africa yet. So we are still fighting against colonialism even though many Africans are not aware that what they're fighting against is colonialism. Because what many Africans, and you cannot blame them, it's been misrepresented that colonialism was Europeans coming there and physically being in Africa, thereby seizing sovereignty.

Adesoji Iginla (07:51.426)
Yep.

Milton Allimadi (07:54.235)
and our sovereignty ended. So therefore that was how they saw colonialism. So they mistakenly equated the removal of Europeans from Africa as the end of colonialism, when in fact the physical presence was only part of it. What was most critical and what has sustained colonialism in Africa is number one.

the destruction of African institutions of governance, right? Our traditional governments were destroyed. The destruction of African culture, the destruction of African spirituality, the destruction of African languages, and then the hijacking of Africa's economies. So for example, Africa...

Many African regions had established trade routes with China when some European states did not even exist. Many African states had established a long corridor from West Africa through North Africa going all the way to Europe to trade with Europe. Many Africans, and this is the part that's not well studied yet, had been able to sail across the Atlantic.

into what later on was referred to as the New World. So that was hijacked. They took away our production. You produce to satisfy your needs, correct? If you like eating a certain kind of food, you can grow it. That is what you grow on your farm. If you like wearing a certain type of clothes, you produce cotton, you produce textile, and then you produce the outfit, you know.

So now you're denied all those opportunities. And what you're told is, Nigeria, you, Senegal, we want you to grow what they call groundnuts or peanuts in the United States. You, in Uganda, we want you to grow tobacco. We want you to grow coffee. And we want you to produce cotton. You, in Kenya, we want you to produce tea. Just think about that.

Milton Allimadi (10:14.244)
So you're hijacking entire economies and saying produce to satisfy my needs, but not your needs. And then I want you to abandon your own traditional outfits. I want you to buy the outfits that I manufacture in Europe using your cotton. And I am going to set the price for you. There's no bargaining. Forget that when you used to purchase items, you would go to your local market, right? Whether it's called a silk.

Adesoji Iginla (10:28.045)
Mmm

Milton Allimadi (10:44.207)
There's no African country region that does not have a market, right, a local market. You go there, you bargain, you negotiate, and then if you want, you buy the item, correct? Now Europe is coming and telling you, you are going to buy these shoes, our manufacture, and this is the price. You're going to buy this pair of pants or shirts at my price. That arrangement has not changed up to date. That is why Europeans continue to become wealthier.

Adesoji Iginla (10:47.671)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (10:54.093)
correct.

Adesoji Iginla (10:59.108)
At my price.

Adesoji Iginla (11:09.131)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (11:13.399)
And African countries continue to become more and more disenfranchised economically. In fact, we have what you may call economic retrogression because we continue to sell cheap, even though our minerals are very valuable, we sell cheap and we buy at a very dear price from the so-called industrialized countries. So how can you say colonialism is over? So that is why it's important because even though...

Adesoji Iginla (11:25.549)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (11:42.789)
toppling of a statue. Somebody could say, this is just symbolism. No. But it makes you start asking questions. Why are they targeting Bismarck? What was Bismarck involved in? What was the Berlin Conference all about? What happened as a result of the Berlin Conference? So it promotes more inquiry, more interrogation, more investigation. And that's why symbolism is also very important.

Adesoji Iginla (11:47.018)
symbolism.

Adesoji Iginla (11:58.367)
about. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (12:10.455)
Thank you. Thank you. And yes, before we move on, for those who would like to know more about the Scramble for Africa, you could read Thomas Peckermans aptly named the Scramble for Africa. It's quite a volume, but it does justice to the subject matter. And yes, Belling Conference is the reason why we have countries that are not self-sufficient.

Most of them are just basically satellite states for, as the good comrade said, for these European countries to come in and milk them. I mean, throughout our broadcast history, we've been talking about France and the countries in the Sahel region. That is a fallout of the Berlin conference. So, yes.

Milton Allimadi (13:00.983)
Right. So many of those Africans, you know, you could say they're European managers in African skin, unfortunately, because many of them have that neocolonial mentality. They celebrate Europe. They don't celebrate Africa. They identify with Europe. They don't identify with Africa. So Europeans are very smart. They selected the best candidates.

Adesoji Iginla (13:10.213)
Mmm. Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (13:28.984)
to continue Europeanism in Africa.

Adesoji Iginla (13:33.377)
Ha

Which fella? Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (13:39.0)
No, it's quite tragic. I won't.

Milton Allimadi (13:43.527)
Europeans who are listening to this, any European, and I want them to share this thought with other Europeans. Imagine Africans coming to England or to Germany and saying, you know, we like millet in Uganda. We want you to produce millet. That is what you're going to produce. And if you don't produce millet,

Adesoji Iginla (14:02.797)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (14:11.775)
I don't know what they eat in Germany. I don't even know what you eat in England. I know potatoes or whatever. Don't produce potatoes. You choose to produce potatoes instead of millet. We're going to fine you or we're going to imprison you or we're going to flog you. Think about that. That's the kind of economic dictatorship they established in Africa. So now you are producing millet, producing something you don't even eat. You're selling it to me in an African country. And then I'm saying,

Adesoji Iginla (14:36.429)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (14:41.234)
Now you're going to buy XYZ from Uganda or from Kenya at this price. Hello, think about that. I want you to think about that so that the essence of colonialism, really, and imperialism can start sinking into your mind. Because often they don't equate it that way. What if we were in their shoes, you know?

Adesoji Iginla (14:47.559)
You

Adesoji Iginla (15:00.459)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (15:06.955)
Wow. And just like to add that it's also salient to know that most of those countries at the moment on paper technically don't trade with each other. They trade with the Metropos.

Milton Allimadi (15:20.017)
Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Many of them don't even like each other enough because of the demonization of Africa, you know, historically in Western media. You know, so when they think of, you know, how to make friends, many of them, I'm sure, you know, the first thought, particularly the leadership, who should be our friends? They think of Europeans instead of fellow Africans. So we need to.

Adesoji Iginla (15:27.053)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (15:49.353)
decolonize the mind first, as Ngugi Wa Thiongo said in his book.

Adesoji Iginla (15:55.319)
Hmm. Speaking of decolonizing the mind, we'll go to the role of the media in our next story, which comes again from the Telegraph, and it's titled, China Wins Hearts and Minds it steps into the void left by the BBC World Service courts.

British soft power reduced as cooperation reveals it lost 40 million of its global audience alone by shutting its Arab and Persian services. The story is filed by Adrian Bufield in Nairobi. It was bonfire night 2018 on the prep school playing fields across Nairobi. Children were owing and owing at the fireworks. But the great and the good of Kenyan society, from the deputy president down, were attending a more rarified celebration.

At BBC's swanky new building on Riverside Drive, one of Kenya's capital's smartest thoroughfares, and later at a nearby hotel, they are gathered to witness what would have been a significant moment in the history of British soft power. The opening of the largest BBC bureau outside of United Kingdom, the centerpiece of a $289 million global expansion funded by the British government, could not have been more timely.

disinformation and propaganda, much of it emanating from Russia and China, was spreading across the continent, sowing division, promoting military rule and planting suspicion in Western policy and philanthropy." I had to laugh. With 300 employees in its new Nairobi bureau and 300 others in expanded operations across the continent, the calm reassuring tone of the BBC World Service unprejudiced

unvarnished and free from bias would reach more people in more languages than ever. I just have to stop. Please help me.

Milton Allimadi (17:50.735)
Hahaha

Yeah, this is the same publication. As I said earlier on, publication just does press releases on behalf of whatever agenda it is pushing. It does press releases disguised and semi-clothed as journalism. The BBC was created to spread British propaganda.

Adesoji Iginla (18:02.143)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (18:12.311)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (18:16.097)
Thank you very much. Could you repeat it again for those at the back?

Milton Allimadi (18:22.502)
The BBC was created to spread British propaganda, and it continues to spread British propaganda. I think what they are, you know, perturbed by the fact that now the BBC no longer has the exclusive monopoly, domination, you see? You know, in the era of the internet, in the era of social media, in the era of digital TV, you know?

Adesoji Iginla (18:28.609)
British propaganda, simple.

Adesoji Iginla (18:40.245)
Mmm. Yep. Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (18:52.13)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (18:53.482)
that monopoly is gone. So now you have others spreading propaganda as well. You know, have China spreading its propaganda. You have Russia spreading its propaganda. So they're complaining about the loss of monopoly. You see? Right. But then they go it on and they really malign Africans, right?

Adesoji Iginla (19:03.123)
Russia. Turkey.

Adesoji Iginla (19:10.616)
Hahaha

Adesoji Iginla (19:21.471)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (19:22.565)
by presuming that when the BBC outreach, which is much more vast than it is today, that Africans were just imbibing and believing everything 100%, right? Well, you know, I mean, sadly, there were many who were persuaded and misled, but not all Africans. That's not important. But the worst thing they're saying is that only we have the right.

Adesoji Iginla (19:36.749)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (19:45.687)
True.

Milton Allimadi (19:50.491)
to mislead and misinform Africans. How dare China and Russia, or whether it's Turkey, all these other new powers, come on the scene to try to usurp our role of misleading. And why do you want to mislead? You want to mislead because you want to buy mental allegiance, right?

Adesoji Iginla (19:57.055)
anyone steps into the...

Adesoji Iginla (20:09.864)
You

Milton Allimadi (20:20.74)
You want mental allegiance, and why is mental allegiance important? Because the world competes in selling products to Africa. The world competes in acquiring minerals from African countries. So it's most likely the people that will do commerce and interact with you are the ones are much more inclined to identify you as a much more positive entity, right?

associate you with only positive attributes as opposed to Russia and China. That's what they're doing. Why are they not— why do they not have any issues with the United States? Because they are ideological on the same page, and they're both members of NATO. What is the purpose of the Voice of America? It is to spread—

U.S. propaganda around the world and in Africa. So why are they not complaining about that if the issue is really that they are disturbed by the spread of propaganda and misinformation in Africa? So their argument can be easily debunked and disproved.

Adesoji Iginla (21:20.759)
Ganda. Correct. True?

Adesoji Iginla (21:34.593)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (21:41.253)
I continue. And it goes further. Hiring hundreds of employees only to fire nearly sixth of his workforce a few years later was not just a waste of public funds, critics say. It also weakened British influence in the developing world and ceded ground, like you said, to propaganda outfits in authoritarian states opposed to the West. I think you've basically just, you've touched it on the head right there.

Milton Allimadi (22:08.11)
Yes, absolutely.

Adesoji Iginla (22:08.457)
It is that opposition that they do not want.

Milton Allimadi (22:11.396)
But they're wrong. British influence eroded after many of these former colonies won formal independence. They are not fully decolonized, as I explained earlier. In fact, I said, colonialism actually continues in a new form. But they lost access to considerable resources that they once had absolute control.

Adesoji Iginla (22:14.465)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (22:38.573)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (22:40.832)
over, you see? Now, they actually have to speak a little nicely to these countries that were their former colonies, because now Russia is on the scene. Now China is on the scene. Now Japan is on the scene. Brazil is on the chain. India is there. Turkey is there, you see? Whereas in the past, you had your colonial officials

Adesoji Iginla (22:58.305)
India.

Milton Allimadi (23:09.537)
exercising military and political control. They would order the so-called natives, as they called them. They didn't even call them nicely, right? Even though they're the ones producing, call them natives, order them to produce, and then you ship it overseas. So that ended when these countries got what they call flag independence, right? It was not because of the erosion of the, in fact, the BBC was growing.

Adesoji Iginla (23:13.165)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (23:19.149)
No. No, is.

Adesoji Iginla (23:32.385)
Hmm. Yep.

Milton Allimadi (23:38.754)
because empire was still at its peak. So when empire was declining, why should you be shocked or surprised that the BBC would also decline?

Adesoji Iginla (23:41.687)
peak. Yep. Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (23:50.401)
Mmm. Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (23:51.192)
They need a better economic model. That model was only successful because it was predicated on monopoly control.

Adesoji Iginla (23:54.893)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (24:04.801)
take the last part. And the BBC service has long been regarded as Britain's preeminent soft power tool. Kofi Annan, the Ghanaian former United Nations Secretary General, described it as perhaps Britain's greatest gift to the world, saying that for millions across the world, it has been seen as a way of cutting through the veil of tyranny to provide uncensored news.

Milton Allimadi (24:32.405)
Okay, so let me address that for a minute. And that we cannot ignore that particular aspect. And that particular aspect is true, and I'll tell you why. It is true because the post-colonial governments in most African countries were tyrannical. And it's not tyrannical because there was something unusual or peculiar about them. They were tyrannical because they inherited the British or French

Adesoji Iginla (24:34.88)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (25:01.021)
or Portuguese or Belgian or Spanish or German tyrannical system. see? Colonialism was a tyranny. The governor spoke and that was it. When the governor didn't like something, he could declare a state of emergency. He could detain someone, correct, without trial. The governor could rule by decree. There was no parliament, correct?

Adesoji Iginla (25:20.845)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (25:29.032)
the natives were ordered to produce and to purchase. And that is a state that many of these Africans, whether presidents or prime ministers, inherited. And they operated that same state. So even the media broadcast was tyrannical. At one time, most African countries had just one national radio station, one national newspaper. You see? So whenever Africans heard

Adesoji Iginla (25:47.362)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (25:58.367)
the BBC. That was like mana. was from a gift from heaven. Because it said whatever the tyrannical African government was not saying. So it was very welcome. The government would not tell you if there was an insurgency going on and gaining ground, coming closer to the capital city. You could only hear that on the BBC. You see? But having said that,

Adesoji Iginla (26:03.573)
You

Adesoji Iginla (26:11.309)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (26:23.925)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (26:26.844)
It does not negate everything I said before that. The BBC at the same time was still spreading British propaganda. So while I agree with Anand on that particular context, I want to broaden it and put it in a larger context.

Adesoji Iginla (26:33.261)
Propaganda.

Adesoji Iginla (26:42.635)
Okay. So, finally, what would you say in terms of, I'm going to extrapolate now, could the Americans be in for some sort of, I mean, I laugh in jest, but the serious nature of how is moving in terms of people who are basically going to

caught out to whatever he is. Whims and caprices are on the day. Seems to be the order with the way his cabinet speak and those around the corridors of power are, you know, basically singing from the same hymn sheet. Could this be a tyrannical system in terms of the way the information flows? Could that be imposed on the American system? Or do you think the American system would

bulk at such an imposition.

Milton Allimadi (27:43.662)
yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. He knows he can only go so far. You cannot issue directives to MSNBC, to NBC, to CBAS, because at the end of the day, these are business entities, and they have shareholders, you see? So when you start affecting the pockets of Americans, forget it.

Adesoji Iginla (27:47.562)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (27:57.677)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (28:04.759)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (28:13.455)
Your name could be Sir Trump, but no. You're taking money out of my— That's the thing that will cause him some trouble if it starts impacting them economically.

Adesoji Iginla (28:27.535)
But would it impact the output of the organization in terms of their broadcasts or journalistic? I mean, I'm using the word journalistic in vetted commas now.

Milton Allimadi (28:42.163)
I'm not a very big fan of many of these corporate entities, to be honest with you. Many of these corporate entities, corporate media, have been misleading the people anyway. Many of these corporate entities only focus on elite news coverage. There's a lot of classism that's not really been sufficiently analyzed.

Adesoji Iginla (28:47.178)
Okay. Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (29:01.047)
Mm-hmm.

Milton Allimadi (29:09.333)
know, stories of the low-income communities, you know, are not sufficiently reported or investigated. You see? That's why they're so confused. They don't understand what's going on. They say, how could a vile, racist misogynist like Donald Trump get millions of votes more than a...

Adesoji Iginla (29:16.749)
covered.

Milton Allimadi (29:35.532)
relatively much more decent person like Kamala Harris. How could he win all the so-called swing states, battleground states? How could he get millions of votes more than she got? How is that possible? It's possible because there is a substantial segment of the U.S. population that is really hurting.

economically, you see? So he's making false promises that he would make the economy better for them. So they're willing—think about it—22 percent of the black male vote. So rather than saying, why would you vote for a person like Donald Trump, a racist, who's still saying the young—

Adesoji Iginla (30:08.641)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (30:33.09)
the five young men who are falsely convicted of the Central Park rape. He's still demonizing them. How could you, as a black man, vote for Donald Trump? They're willing to discount his racism. Think about that. In the hope that he will indeed stop those dangerous immigrants coming across the border.

and threatening my black job. Think about that. It's saying a number of things. Number one, he's declaring that you as a black person, and he's mostly always directing it to the black men. You're only entitled to low paying jobs. He's saying that, right? Indirectly. And then he's saying these Mexicans.

Adesoji Iginla (31:00.493)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (31:18.891)
jobs.

Milton Allimadi (31:28.203)
you know these Africans now coming across the border all of these Haitians

Milton Allimadi (31:35.362)
they're not going to get those high paying jobs. They're going to get your low paying black jobs. And apparently, it works sufficiently to get him, you know, 22 % of the vote. You know? I believe that argument more than the fact that, okay, there could be black males who are also misogynistic. But I don't think that misogynism.

Adesoji Iginla (31:35.959)
So obviously not. Playing jobs. Yep. Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (31:50.103)
Mm. Mm.

Milton Allimadi (32:04.745)
of Donald Trump appealed to the larger percentage of that 22%. I think the pitch that they're threatening your black job is what did it. And why are we not even in touch with this sense of desperation? Because their stories are not covered. They're only covered during election time when the polling shows that, he's...

Adesoji Iginla (32:12.053)
It was the disconnection.

Adesoji Iginla (32:23.49)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (32:32.801)
polling a little better with black males. And then we do stories the last two or three weeks of the campaign. And that's going to have some impact or change things. We have a media crisis. Of course, he's a detestable person in what he says about media. He's not the right person to be attacking media. But that does not take away from the fact that...

As corporate media is constituted in the United States, it is also doing substantial damage to the national narrative. Think about it. Okay, let me give you the final point that people should ponder over.

If you go to CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, many of these talking heads are paid millions of dollars. They're part of the elite. So it's not surprising that to them the world and the universe is about the elite, what the elite are thinking, what the elite are saying. You see? They cannot remove themselves and put them...

themselves in the shoes of low-income people. And if this crisis is not handled with, it's going to become a crisis of the political system itself, you know?

Milton Allimadi (34:04.85)
So he's a danger, but media also a danger to themselves.

Because if the bottom line becomes the priority, and you see what's going on right now, know, CNN, MSNBC, they're cutting staff, they're cutting resources, you know, because at the bottom, at the end of the day, they want to satisfy the shareholders. I don't think in the long run that's a formula that can work in a so-called democracy.

Adesoji Iginla (34:35.821)
that is sustainable.

Milton Allimadi (34:40.156)
You just can't. You need to find some balance, and that's why people could say, the BBC may go to the other extreme. You know?

Milton Allimadi (34:53.036)
You need to find a balance somewhere. If you're going to have private media, you need to have a formula. Say for example, first of all, okay, so if we have, if we think diversity, know, ethnic, religious, political, is a good thing in corporate America, right? If we think that's fine, why should it not follow that there should be

diversity in news, focus, and content as well.

Adesoji Iginla (35:29.015)
That's an important question.

Milton Allimadi (35:30.84)
common sense, you know, but it's hard if I am the CEO at MSNBC or Fox News, right, or CNN.

And my number one priority is to make my media platform more profitable, right?

When and under what circumstance am I going to contact my colleague and say, listen, guys, we are part of the problem. Let's have a conversation. No. Our number one concern is profit. And I can maximize profit by cutting costs, which of course reduces the quality of the journalism, which is already a challenge in the first place. So it becomes like a...

Adesoji Iginla (36:08.653)
Of it exactly

Adesoji Iginla (36:24.641)
Mmm. Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (36:28.195)
self-spiraling cycle to a destruction. The media may destroy themselves, but it won't be primarily because of Donald Trump.

Adesoji Iginla (36:40.951)
Now, speaking of the media and how post-colonialism has been covered in Africa, we go to The Guardian for the next story, which it's about mining executives in Mali. And it reads, British mining executives held in Mali freed after 160 deal to settle tax disputes.

Resolute mining chief, Terence Holohan, and two employees have been held since 9th December. Three British mining executives who have been detained by the government of Mali have been released and safe and well after agreeing to pay 160 to settle a tax dispute. They were detained at the end of a meeting with government officials held to discuss tax and other state claims.

that the miner had previously said were unsubstantiated. The miner agreed to pay 160 million dollars to the Mali government this week to help resolve the tax dispute. goes on. Resolute, which has a gold mine in Mali, said last week the three employees have been treated well and were receiving support from the UK and other embassies and consulates. Mali, is one of Africa's biggest gold exporters, rewrote

its mining laws last year to increase state and local ownership in the industry and extract more money from international companies. Negotiation with international mining companies have been fraught. In September, the government detained four local employees of Barrick Gold, the world's second largest gold miner by market capitalization, for four days. Now this is the funny part.

Mali had been battling the jihadist insurgents for more than a decade after the Libyan civil war destabilized the Saharan region to itself. With many Western donors leaving the country, Mali's government has been struggling to raise money to pay the Russian mercenaries and fund its own military. Can you spot anything in that story?

Milton Allimadi (38:56.822)
Yes. All right, so more power to Mali, of course. I mean, Mali, by rewriting its laws, it's directly attacking neocolonialism and global economic imperialism. And if they paid $160 million, it means the true

Adesoji Iginla (38:59.117)
Please tell.

Adesoji Iginla (39:04.034)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (39:18.081)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (39:25.896)
amount owed might have actually been higher. Correct? These companies would not pay $160 million without saying, no, we are not paying. We are going to take this for international arbitration jurisdiction, right? Some court. That's what they would have done. And the fact that they're continuing to do business there shows you how profitable.

Adesoji Iginla (39:28.171)
be much more than that. Yeah. Correct. Correct.

Adesoji Iginla (39:40.461)
computation.

Adesoji Iginla (39:52.033)
The duo.

Milton Allimadi (39:54.579)
that it was worth paying the 160 million. And indeed, it was owed. So that's a good development. So what Mali is doing is it did what Jerry Rawlings did when he came to power in Ghana with Kaiser Aluminum. And because Kaiser had the factory, the aluminum plant, right, producing aluminum.

Adesoji Iginla (40:00.897)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (40:08.051)
Yes. Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (40:21.003)
Yeah, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (40:24.372)
But the government controlled the power for the water, right, from the Volta River project. And so when Rawlings came, they said, you know what, we know you've been underpaying our country since the days of Kwame Nkrumah. So we are demanding an increase in the price that you pay us for electricity. And Kaiser refused. So—

Adesoji Iginla (40:41.293)
Yeah

Milton Allimadi (40:53.96)
The Ghanaians said, okay, you know, go and pump your own water then. There's going to be no power flowing. So what did they do? They increased the rate that they were paying Ghana by three times, 300%, which meant they owed Ghana three times, dating back to when Krumah opened that plant in 1966.

Adesoji Iginla (41:19.725)
the night.

Adesoji Iginla (41:23.331)
Wow.

Milton Allimadi (41:23.59)
I don't know whether that back money was recovered, but going forward, that was what they started paying, henceforth. Tanzania did the same thing. It was with gold as well. And the late President, Magu Fuli, he said, you've been stealing. They said, no, we have not been stealing. He said, you know, you've been stealing. We want you to pay us the back amount you owe us for the gold, which you have been getting for peanuts.

Adesoji Iginla (41:36.589)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (41:53.203)
You know, these are the new rates. This is the new fair equitable rate. They refused. So, my friends, okay, so the contract is gone. I'm not going to honor it. What are you going to do? So, there was an impasse for a long time. They realized Tanzania was not going to budge. They came back and they paid. Tanzania raised substantial amounts that

Adesoji Iginla (42:16.833)
Well, Jett.

Milton Allimadi (42:23.057)
that went into infrastructure. know, the roads, the railways, all upgraded. You know, so many people decried and still criticize Magu Fuli because of his approach to dealing with the COVID pandemic. You know, he was almost like a COVID denier. So they bashing for them. But overwhelmingly, they...

Adesoji Iginla (42:44.779)
Denial.

Milton Allimadi (42:52.079)
remember him fondly for what he did to the Tanzanian economy, and particularly how dealt with that issue with the mining industry. So I see that Bali is learning from that. I hope more African countries learn from that because most of these countries should not be economically impoverished. They have the minerals that the world needs, the world wants, and as the late Professor John Henry Clark said, the world does not want to pay for.

Adesoji Iginla (42:57.325)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (43:08.407)
Can you imagine?

Adesoji Iginla (43:12.183)
Can you imagine if...

Milton Allimadi (43:22.639)
Let them pay.

Adesoji Iginla (43:24.804)
Can you imagine if every African country were to reappraise its dealings with all these foreign companies?

Milton Allimadi (43:32.655)
Yeah.

Right. And I urge the youth of Africa, because a lot of this, they're responding to the pressure coming from the young people. In countries where your governments are not talking or actively dealing with renegotiating all these contracts, youth, you have nothing to lose. Come out to the streets and give them some pressure, because they're taking money away from your table.

Adesoji Iginla (44:03.789)
Hmm

Milton Allimadi (44:03.896)
resources that should go to developing the economies so that you don't have to go and drown in the Mediterranean trying to clean some toilet in Europe or trying to make it through the United States to the jungles of South America. That is your money. If your government is not delivering, push them out.

Adesoji Iginla (44:12.759)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (44:30.081)
Well, speaking of not delivering, we go to the Financial Times for our next story. And it's usually the story is of...

male feverly, but the UK imposes sanctions on Isabel Dos Santos in money laundering crackdown. Africa's former richest woman and exiled, I'll focus the story on her anyway, exiled Ukrainian oligarch Dmitry Fetach among three hit by measures. The UK has imposed sanctions on three people, Africa's former richest woman.

Milton Allimadi (44:46.554)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (45:12.071)
the Labour government steps of airport to clamp down on those who enable money laundering through Britain's financial system. The measures hit Isabella Dos Santos, the daughter of Angola's former president, who is accused of money from the country's gas supplies, as well as Avis Lemberg, one of Latvia's richest men who were jailed last year for bribery by a court in Riga. Former

Foreign Secretary David Lammy said the sanctions marked the first step in delivering an ambition to take on kleptocrats and the dirty money that empowers them, he added. The tide is turning. The golden age of money laundering is over. The designations were made under a UK regulation aimed at combating global corruption passed in 2021, which allows sanctions to be levied on people involved directly or indirectly in bribery or misappropriation of property. It has been now used.

against 50 individual. The Foreign Office said, Thursday sanctions market step change in how the government is using sanction powers to make the UK a more hostile environment for corporate powers to operate in by also targeting enablers helping to move wealth into UK assets. Where is the power? Okay, the last part for me. Dos Santos, who once claimed to be Africa's former

woman billionaire systematically abused her position at state-run companies to loot Angela's resources during her father's 38-year rule, the UK said as it imposed an asset freeze and travel ban on her. She rose to chair Angela's state oil company under her father's rule after amassing business interests across the economy. Her downfall began soon after a new president came to power in 2017 and since 2020 she has faced lawsuits

or criminal investigations in multiple countries. Here we go. Over to you.

Milton Allimadi (47:13.648)
yeah, I I support this totally, of course. She never created some software or some technology, digital technology that just sold phenomenally all over the world. So what was the source of her billion dollars? The source was of course being the daughter of De Santos who put her in charge of...

Adesoji Iginla (47:16.49)
Okay?

Adesoji Iginla (47:30.733)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (47:34.465)
with. Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (47:39.853)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (47:43.234)
the monopolies, which was of course the oil and the gas and the telecom industry in Angola. And that is how she accumulated that wealth on behalf of herself and of course on behalf of the family. Probably getting her cuts in all those deals, having shares, private shares that were very valuable and lucrative.

Adesoji Iginla (48:04.606)
All deals. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (48:13.375)
of course. So, yeah, the money needs to be recovered and needs to be returned to Angola because it belongs to the people of Angola, the taxpayers. What to me is interesting is that the article does not address it, so I'm not sure whether this is something that the foreign secretary is going to deal with as well.

Adesoji Iginla (48:26.22)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (48:40.301)
We're just.

Milton Allimadi (48:42.644)
It should not be limited to the notable personalities like Isabella Dos Santos. There many who may not be as prominent, who have been stealing money from African countries. And to the extent that those funds can be traced within the United Kingdom, those individuals should be subjected to sanctions and their money should also be returned. So that's the only part that I think

Adesoji Iginla (49:02.604)
traced.

Adesoji Iginla (49:10.092)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (49:12.142)
is missing in this story. And I would like that to be addressed as well.

Adesoji Iginla (49:18.335)
Is it would it be right to suggest the sanctions could also be abused?

Milton Allimadi (49:26.284)
This thing just could do right.

Adesoji Iginla (49:26.859)
because it could be, know, just like the United States tends to abuse the use of its sanctions on people, could this sanctions regime also be used to the detriment of officials from other countries? I'm not saying...

Milton Allimadi (49:46.592)
Well, that's possible, but it doesn't mean that they should gut it for that reason alone. If that issue comes, then that should be addressed as they come along. It should be challenged. But in this particular case, there's no question about the fact that she accumulated the resources from state institutions. So when it's clear-cut like this, it needs to be supported and celebrated.

Adesoji Iginla (49:54.753)
Mm-hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (49:58.828)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (50:15.401)
We know that in many other African countries. We know, for example, in Equatorial Guinea, you know, right? That's an issue that needs to be dealt with. In fact, you know, it should, something like this should inspire more inquiry on the family that is now, the Nguema family that is running the show in Equatorial Guinea right now. In Mozambique, we have this multi-billion dollar gas, you know, operation.

Adesoji Iginla (50:29.666)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (50:38.913)
It's funny you shoot.

Milton Allimadi (50:45.617)
and that total coming on board. I'm sure stealing will occur. If stealing has not already occurred, these are things we have to be thinking about.

Adesoji Iginla (50:51.745)
No radio code. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (50:57.406)
It's funny that you mentioned that there should be an inquiry. Actually, there was a book published by Tom Budges titled The Looting Machine. Isabella is actually mentioned in there, Nguema is mentioned in there, Mobutu is in there. I mean, a whole host of names. So.

Milton Allimadi (51:10.502)
Interesting.

Right. Okay, okay. So, you know, apologies to my brother because my brother actually, Andrew, got me a copy of that book last year. I am ashamed to confess that I haven't read it yet. But now I will. Now that you've held it up like that to shame me, I'm going to read it.

Adesoji Iginla (51:22.822)
No.

Adesoji Iginla (51:26.861)
my God, you

Adesoji Iginla (51:36.29)
So you've allowed the looting machine to gather dust. This is a brilliant read. It's a brilliant. I mean, even in page 10, the expose, from page 10, the expose is on Isabella De Santis. And he goes, no, he goes into detail how she, you know, so.

Milton Allimadi (51:39.708)
Yes, I have it. I will read it for sure. Right.

Milton Allimadi (51:54.16)
Yeah, okay, so this is my suggestion then. I'll read it and at some point let's devote an episode to discuss it in the future. Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (52:07.029)
Yeah, yeah, we should. should. Yeah, looting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, speaking of from looting to leaders who have decided, you know what, abduction is the way to deal with their opponents in inverted commas. And we go to the New York Times for our next and final story, which is titled...

Uganda's opposition leader who was kidnapped in Kenya turns up in court. Kisa Bersigue, a former presidential candidate, went missing over the weekend as he visited the Kenyan capital reappearing days later, a military custody back in Uganda. A prominent Ugandan opposition leader, a figure who disappeared last week while in neighboring Kenya, surfaced on Wednesday in a military court back home.

where he was charged with security related offenses. His wife and Uganda official said the latest case to raise alarm and widely opposition crackdown in both East African nations. Kisa Beseigwe, a former presidential candidate in Uganda, was kidnapped on Saturday while visiting the capital, Nairobi, for a book launch by Kenyan politician. His wife Winnie Banyama said on social media earlier on Wednesday.

Ms. Bayama did not elaborate on how Mr. Bersigwe was abducted or by whom. We go further for more details. Mr. Bersigwe, who is also a physician, has in the last been arrested and assaulted by security officers placed under house arrest to prevent him holding political rallies and accused of treason and rape. He was acquitted of rape and the treason charges were later squashed. On Wednesday, Kenya and Uganda's opposition officials

decried the mysterious ways in which Mr. Bersinge was removed from Kenya, which have seen a wave of abductions in recent months. This includes the kidnap and torture of activists and protesters who have been agitating against the government of President William Ruto. Kenya must decide whether they want to be a constitutional democracy governed by the premise of the Bill of Rights and Tenants of Justice or a tyranny. James Orengo, the governor of SIA,

Adesoji Iginla (54:26.317)
County and a member of the opposition Orange Democratic Movement said on social media. In October, the United Nations Refugee Agency said it was deeply concerned that Kenyan had sent back four Turkish refugees who had been abducted by marksmen at gunpoint. In July, three dozen opposition members who had traveled to Kenya, participated in the governor's course, were also deported. They were charged with terrorism related once they arrived home. Before you, question is.

Adesoji Iginla (54:58.253)
Could you speak to Kenya with the level of abduction before you go to the state sanctioned violence that is Uganda?

Milton Allimadi (55:10.895)
Well, I think the true Ruto is now stepping forward once again, you see? And even without dealing with the Ugandan opposition leader, Beside, the history of abduction of opponents domestically is—

Adesoji Iginla (55:15.5)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (55:18.765)
Okay?

Adesoji Iginla (55:28.993)
Situation. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (55:40.057)
very prominent in both Kenya and Uganda. You don't hear about it in Tanzania, although now, recently, ironically, under the current government, I'm hearing stories about that more now. But historically, it's been very prominent in both Uganda and Tanzania. In Uganda, it became very prominent during the reign of General Idi Amin.

people would be abducted, then the bodies would be found floating on the river Nile, right? In Kenya, it was not as pervasive as it was in Uganda during Idi Amin, but it's also widespread. And a few prominent politicians were abducted and their bodies were later found. And the one that I can remember,

most prominent one that I can remember offhand, even though they are coupled, was the foreign minister, Robert Aouko, abducted within Kenya, obviously by state agencies, and his remains, later found, is dead. So the practice is there. And then, of course, we've heard about it recently after the anti-tax protests by the youth in Kenya.

and then it emerged that many of the youth leaders had also been abducted. was a lot of international pressure, pressure from Kenyan civil society, and subsequently they were released. I think most, if not all, have been released.

So the Kenya that we see now is more or less the Kenya that the Ruto, that people were more familiar with. Remember Ruto was a defendant at the International Criminal Court before he became president, right? Yeah, along with Uhuru Kenyatta, right? They were charged and then subsequently as president and deputy president.

Adesoji Iginla (57:47.957)
Yep, along with

Milton Allimadi (57:59.506)
They were brought before the court. And what was one of the reasons? mean, were, Ruto was never acquitted. Sometimes people forget that. The case was suspended. A suspended case can be reactivated. But why was it suspended? Because witnesses were going missing.

Adesoji Iginla (58:14.027)
and it, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (58:17.93)
activated.

Adesoji Iginla (58:25.133)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (58:25.362)
being abducted and just disappearing, right?

Adesoji Iginla (58:42.091)
reinvent himself.

Milton Allimadi (58:43.665)
Yeah, the Ruto there was trying to reinvent himself, repackage himself. I was invited to the White House and there's all this talk about the new Kenya, the new Ruto and so on and so forth, And then the tax protest started. And then we saw the tyrannical Ruto reemerge. So that is the setting under which we should evaluate.

Adesoji Iginla (58:57.697)
And he sat in the big chair.

Adesoji Iginla (59:02.413)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (59:13.244)
this incident involving Kizabeside. And then, of course, as the article also mentions, there have been some additional abductions as well of other foreign nationals, including Turkish refugees, people that actually had official former refugee status allowed by the Kenyan state to be abducted by foreign agents and taken back to their country.

That is the Kenya that we have today. So essentially we have two rogue rulers in East Africa, the Kenyan President Ruto and the Ugandan military dictator, General Museveni. Because there's no way could Ruto say that he was not familiar.

with how Beside could have been abducted from Kenya and returned across the borders to Uganda. We don't have open borders yet. We still have security on the border. We still have customs and immigration on both sides of the border.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:15.703)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:34.497)
Wow. So now, could you speak to the situation in Uganda that would allow for such an abduction to have taken place?

Milton Allimadi (01:00:45.261)
no, I mean, it's clear in Uganda there's a military regime. Your General Museveni has been in power for 38 years now. So occasionally he wears his military uniform. Occasionally, depending on who he's meeting, he wears his civilian attire. You know, when he's meeting with U.S. officials or potential investors, you know, he wears his civilian. And then as soon as they leave,

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:49.131)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:53.911)
That's the ATS.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:01.857)
Hahaha!

Milton Allimadi (01:01:10.947)
When he's admonishing Ugandans, threatening Ugandans, he has on his military uniform. And his son, General Mujozi, the same way. Depending on who he's meeting, he wears civilian, like father, like son. Depending on who he's lambasting, he wears on his military uniform. So we have the papadoc, baby-doc situation in Uganda, which once prevailed in Haiti, of course, you know?

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:25.229)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:36.279)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:01:39.813)
the father dictator grooming the son to inherit the mantle from him. And obviously, they live, imposed a reign of tyranny and terror, but they themselves live under terror as well. Because they know the people can only tolerate something like that for such a long time. Everything has a limit.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:58.741)
Yeah, because we would take so much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (01:02:06.093)
When will the limit break is what keeps them awake at night. you know, obviously he knows that Beside is a prominent opposition leader. Bobby Wine, the prominent leading opposition leader right now, you know, so he's always wondering and worried about what might they be up to. It is through these individuals and their followers that the dictatorship in Uganda will come.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:18.561)
Another

Milton Allimadi (01:02:35.811)
to an end at some point, and hence the abduction of Besige. And what was one of the charges that they're alleging? That he was found with two pistols. So with the two pistols, he's going to bring down the Ugandan military regime. And then they were discussing military installations, presumably to attack them with two pistols.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:02.157)
with two pisters.

Milton Allimadi (01:03:06.154)
It's so comical, it's not even comical. But, you know, as I said, I hate using the term banana republic because it has racist connotations by Europeans, but Ruto indeed is behaving like a banana republic dictator, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:23.753)
Mm, mm.

Milton Allimadi (01:03:25.078)
And it has, unfortunately, it has serious negative consequences on the Kenyan state and the perception toward Kenya that outsiders now have. Shame on Ruto.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:46.539)
The worst part about the Kenyan situation is it's supposed to be the bastion of democracy. Well, the fact that it's facilitating. Exactly.

Milton Allimadi (01:03:57.515)
particularly in East Africa, given the chaos in Uganda.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:02.283)
Yeah, you know, the only time I think Ghana and Kenya almost got sucked into the regime of coups was 80, I think it was 81, 81 or 82, 81 during the more years. But, yeah, but aside from that, it's been a bastion of relative peace, but

Milton Allimadi (01:04:18.814)
Yes, Daniel Maraboy.

Milton Allimadi (01:04:28.606)
Right, when you compare to Uganda, absolutely. The military have been more or less much, much more professional. Compared to Uganda, the military have been very destructive, massive human rights abusers, since independence, since shortly after independence, since 1966 in particular, when there was a political crisis between, at that time, prime minister

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:45.642)
abuse this. Yeah.

Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (01:04:58.06)
Milton Obote and the traditional King of Uganda, Sir Edward Mutesa. And Obote unleashed the armed forces against Mutesa. And at that time the commander was Idi Amin. And then it's been downhill since then in terms of the military and its role in Ugandan politics.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:59.211)
I it.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:12.177)
he opened the Pandora box. He opened the Pandora box. Opened the Pandora box. Yeah. Hmm. Hmm. It's the usual is the usual pattern. That's how he starts. Even in Nigeria in 1966, the same pattern, small political crisis, you bring out the army, you can never you can never take them back in. So.

Milton Allimadi (01:05:32.893)
Correct.

Milton Allimadi (01:05:36.381)
Correct.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:38.655)
Okay, any last words? As usual, we've come to the end and...

Milton Allimadi (01:05:44.175)
I'm very happy, as I said, to be a regular contributor with you, comrade, in enlightening our people on the importance of understanding what is being said when something is said. Sometimes the meanings are hidden. The meanings need to be revealed and exposed so that we can be better informed.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:59.627)
Hmm. Yep. Yep.

Milton Allimadi (01:06:11.702)
The only thing I would add is that you should provide your contact information. If people have been reading some items in the European media, in the Western media that they're not sure of and they needed to be deconstructed, we are here to help you deconstruct.

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:33.397)
Yes. OK. So you could email me at adesogspeakstknowledge at gmail.com. Again, it's adesogspeakstknowledge at gmail.com. And we'll take your stories forward and bring it on here and deconstruct as it were. And I must say thank you again to Comrade Milti and from me, it is good night for now. Good night.

Milton Allimadi (01:06:55.461)
Kaluta kontinua.

Milton Allimadi (01:07:01.329)
See you next week.