EP 2 Congo's Colonial Legacy: Seeking Justice and Reparations| African News Review 🌍

In this episode of African News Review, host Adesoji Iginla and journalist Milton Allimadi discussed significant themes affecting Africa today. 
They reflected on the legacy of Steve Biko and the Black Consciousness Movement, analysed the implications of a controversial airport deal in Kenya, and explore the ongoing quest for justice and reparations in Congo. 
The conversation also touched on the political turmoil in Congo following a coup, the complexities of US support for African nations, and the human rights crisis in Tunisia amidst EU concerns. 
Each topic reveals the intricate dynamics of power, sovereignty, and the historical context that shapes contemporary Africa.

Chapters
00:00 Remembering Steve Biko: Legacy and Impact
06:50 Kenya's Airport Controversy: Foreign Investment and Sovereignty
15:39  Congo's Colonial Legacy: Seeking Justice and Reparations
28:46 Coup in Congo: Death Sentences and International Implications
42:42 UN Security Council: Africa's Bid for Representation
56:29 Human Rights in Tunisia: EU's Dilemma

Transcript

Adesoji Iginla (00:01.59)
Yes, good day, good day and welcome to African News Review, a weekly news conversation in which we discuss Africa in the Western press and give you a breakdown of what our thoughts are. I'm your host, Adesoji Iginla, and with me as usual is the journalist, the publisher, Black Star News, a writer, and author of How...

manufacturing hate, how the media demonized Africa. He is none other than comrade Milton Ali Mahdi and his book incidentally inspired African news review. Welcome comrade.

Milton Allimadi (00:43.579)
Asante sana. Asante. Thank you, comrade.

Adesoji Iginla (00:47.394)
Yes, this Thursday 12th of September 2024 marked the 47th anniversary of Steve Biko's assassination by the apartheid authorities. And before I get your thoughts, I want to read something from his book, I Write What I Like. And basically, it's his biological summary. Steve Biko was born in 1940.

Beme Second. 1946 in King William Town, Cape Province, he entered the non -European section of the medical school of the University of Natal, Durban. In 1966, he joined the National Union of South African Students and was an active member until 1968 when he broke away to form the Black Community Program.

These community development programs were a practical manifestation of the Black consciousness philosophy and inspired various projects such as the Zampillo Clinic and literary schemes. In 1973, the authorities banned him from speaking in public and publishing his writings. He was restricted to his hometown of King William. Despite this,

He continued his political activities in 1976. Steve Biko was held under the Section 6 of the Terrorism Act. He was kept in detention for several months and then released without charges being made. In 1977, Steve Biko was appointed Honorary President of the Black People's Convention, an organization he had helped found in 1972. Later that year, he was again held under security legislation.

He was taken to Port Elizabeth under detention and died there on 12 September 1977. The cause of his death was established as brain damage. He left a widow, Norti Sikello and two sons. May his path be smooth, as we will say. Brother Milton, your thoughts on Brother Biko?

Milton Allimadi (03:00.239)
Well, of course, Steve Biko, he was one of the great young leaders in South Africa. He became famous for leading the Black Consciousness Movement, which was very similar to in the diaspora in the US when they had the whole Black Pride Movement. Black is beautiful.

Because in South Africa, very similar to the US, centuries of demonization of African people had instilled a sense of inferiority complex amongst the Black African population. And Biko recognized that. And once they started talking about the Black consciousness movement.

Adesoji Iginla (03:30.176)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (03:52.591)
They started insisting that why should we let European so -called liberals or progressive be at the ones who are at the forefront of the liberation struggle? We need to speak on our behalf for ourselves. And that's why he also parted from the National Student Union, which was led by European so -called liberals.

Why should we need intermediaries to plead on our behalf? And of course, it took off, as they say, like wildfire because young people realize he's right. Why do we need others to agitate on our behalf? We need to find our own balance. And the apartheid regime, of course, feared that because they knew Biko was right. They feared him for lifting the...

Adesoji Iginla (04:24.832)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (04:49.283)
level of resistance by the young people who realized that they can actually do their own fighting. And of course, it led to much more dynamic resistance, including the uprising, like so what to uprising, you see? And Biko also was very prescient in terms of his warning. As you recall, he said,

If we think ending apartheid involves only changing the skin color of the rulers, then we are badly mistaken. If we don't address issues of power dynamics, economic control, control of the minerals of the country, of the factories, the production system.

And he said, because if we do that, what will happen is a small black elite, the black bourgeois will become very wealthy. And then the apartheid in the new post apartheid era, the white power structure will use that to buffer. They would not need to address the needs of the millions, the masses. And that's exactly what obtains today.

Adesoji Iginla (06:07.136)
What is happening in South Africa? Yes.

Milton Allimadi (06:09.083)
in South Africa. So he could see today, even when he spoke in 1976. So we owe him great respect. We honor his legacy and his lessons. His warning is being manifest today. South Africa, true transition in the post -apartheid era has not yet occurred. And eventually it will, because those truths cannot be challenged and our people will not accept.

exploitation perpetually or permanently.

Adesoji Iginla (06:41.196)
Thank you, thank you. So speaking of black consciousness, we go for our first story, we go to Kenya and the Kenyan court has suspended, the news comes from Financial Times and it reads, the headline reads, Kenya court suspends a Danny deal to run Nairobi's airport. And it goes.

The lead says, the legal challenge is the latest blow to the Indian's conglomerate's effort to expand overseas presence. Kenyan's High Court has suspended a government plan to allow Indians Adani Group to control to manage the country's main airport, following intense local opposition, marking the latest setback to the conglomerate's overseas expansion. The court order on Monday temporarily blocks a government proposal to grant the infrastructure -focused

company owned by Gautam Adani, India's second richest man, a 30 -year lease to operate Jomo Kayanta's International Airport. The Law Society of Kenya and the Kenyan Human Rights Commission, which petitioned the High Court, said the estimated 1 .8 billion in funds needed to revamp the airport could be raised without a multiple -decade leasing contract. I'll just end with this.

The Kenyans airport authority said and done his proposal to refurbish the facility and invest in a new terminal and runway was needed to spruce up the aging infrastructure at the largest airport in East Africa's most advanced economy. Your thoughts.

Milton Allimadi (08:20.763)
Okay, so my thoughts, probably they do need the financing, correct? Or definitely, you need finance to operate an airport. And given what's going on in Kenya right now, people are coming out on the streets. They've been out on the streets. We had the protests which were intensified in June.

Adesoji Iginla (08:26.58)
Okay. So you started with capital. Okay.

Milton Allimadi (08:46.715)
as many as how many people I think it was about 28 were killed because they cannot bear the tax burden, right?

Adesoji Iginla (08:50.69)
Mm

Adesoji Iginla (08:55.479)
Mm

Milton Allimadi (08:55.887)
So now you have an airport that also needs capital for renovation, operation. don't want an airport has to be one of the safest establishments you have in any given country. People don't want to hear that, you know, because of financial issues, there's some issues that may compromise safety, you know, measures at any airport in the world, correct? So obviously that's a priority. You're not going to be able to tax anymore.

Adesoji Iginla (09:18.177)
Okay? Yes.

Milton Allimadi (09:24.943)
because you saw what happened with the current tax alone. So forget about additional tax. So where is the money going to come from? Now that's a tragedy. You're going to have to mortgage some of your resources. Otherwise you shut down the airport. It may not meet international standards at some point. And you can't afford to do that because tourism is one of your main sources of revenue. So obviously you need the airport to be operating. Trade.

Adesoji Iginla (09:29.25)
What?

Adesoji Iginla (09:49.132)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (09:54.767)
You know, you are a big producer of what Horticultural, the flower industry. And obviously, that's something you can't ship in a cargo container, in ships. Those need to be flown. So airport is very critical to Kenya survival. Here's my own take. This is their biggest mistake. And not only Kenya. Most African countries, and particularly in East Africa, in East Africa, they have not

Adesoji Iginla (10:13.632)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (10:24.557)
actualized the visions they had and they knew what they took of the 1960s when they started with the East African community. The East African community is a shadow of what it could have been and should have been and still can be. So if the East African community had actualized the way it was envisioned, the cost of operating airports would be shared amongst

the three East African countries. And now you have more countries involved in East African community. Now you have Congo, you have Rwanda, all these countries that have been added to East African community now, meaning you are splitting the cost. The burden is not just on one country. And that would apply to the post and the communications, the harbor services.

the railway services, you see? So you would not need to be prostituting your resources to outside financiers. And that's the biggest tragedy. The sovereignty, because then I could just, that's something I can address very quickly. My question would be which African country sovereign? You see, it's not there.

Adesoji Iginla (11:24.459)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (11:32.29)
So what about the sovereignty issue?

Adesoji Iginla (11:39.136)
You

Adesoji Iginla (11:48.929)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (11:52.083)
That's when Krumah warned in neocolonialism, the last age of imperialism, that we cannot exercise our sovereignty unless and until we unite. Because individually, we are not strong enough to withstand. You forget the countries. He said, we cannot even withstand the corporations. He said, look at Congo. He said, in the past, we would identify whatever is going on in Congo.

with the European powers. Is it Belgium? Is it Britain? Is it the United States? We don't even need that nowadays. Nowadays, the corporations, the companies are so powerful that they themselves, private companies, can undermine your sovereignty. You see? So I think anybody who says, I'm protesting because this is mortgaging Kenya's sovereignty, and at the same time, you know that you're not

able to pay any more taxes, my question to them would be, where is the money going to come from to operate the airport? You see? Yeah. That's a tragedy. This is what they could say. They could say, we can't give you a 30 -year lease. That's out of the question. We can do 10 years. But then, now, Adani is going to be saying, I cannot recoup.

Adesoji Iginla (12:55.316)
You

Adesoji Iginla (12:59.66)
So what's the...

Milton Allimadi (13:17.819)
my money within 10 years. That's probably what it says. So see, I don't know enough about the financing. I don't know what the revenue stream right now in the airport. I don't know the cost of operation. But whatever it is, 30 -year lease is unjustifiable. Because if we are criticizing China for all these long -term leases, how can it be OK for India then? You see?

Adesoji Iginla (13:19.863)
Ten years. Okay?

Milton Allimadi (13:43.835)
So if you say, OK, structure it for a 10 -year lease. And in the meantime, what I'm going to do in these 10 years is to make sure that we actualize the vision of the East African community, meaning within 10 years, the cost is going to be spread out so that now Uganda does not have to carry the burden of Entebbe Airport alone. Tanzania does not have to carry Dar es Salaam. I think now it's Mali Mwanyere Airport alone. Same thing in now in Congo.

Adesoji Iginla (14:04.52)
one chip. Yeah, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (14:13.665)
Same thing in the other East African countries. Same thing in South Sudan, which is now part of East African communities as well. So that's what they can do. But right now, the money is going to have to come to us from somewhere. If it doesn't come from Mardani, it's going to come from the World Bank. And you know they have their own conditionalities. So now you're probably comparing the deal from India with the deal from the World Bank and a possible deal from China. I myself, actually,

Adesoji Iginla (14:31.244)
true

Milton Allimadi (14:42.331)
philosophically speaking, and this is where I support what Nyerere actually said in 1985. But I don't think the deal is structured the way Nyerere is thinking. Nyerere is saying we are not at the same stage of economic development, even though they say all of us are, the so -called, in those days they're like saying the North versus the South, right? The global South.

Adesoji Iginla (15:04.15)
And the staff,

Milton Allimadi (15:06.979)
So Nyerere said, not all of us in the global south have the same level of economic development. So India, and in fact, at that time China was not a developer as it is today. India, China, Brazil, they have technologies that can benefit countries like Tanzania, which we don't have. But we are always running to Europe or Japan because our minds are conditioned that way, sort of a neocolonial dependency. So we need to.

Adesoji Iginla (15:35.264)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (15:36.225)
increase intra -South cooperation. So if this could be structured as one of those intra -South cooperations, then I can see it working. But I suspect it's structured probably more similar to the way the World Bank does deals with African countries, and Yerere would not approve of that. Yerere would say, if there are some goods that Kenya can generate to compensate,

Adesoji Iginla (15:56.042)
OK.

Milton Allimadi (16:04.453)
for this kind of investment so that Kenya is not having to take loans to pay Adani or to tax its citizens more, then that's the kind of interest of cooperation that of course I would support.

Adesoji Iginla (16:19.818)
Now, you mentioned the extension of it to place the extension of the burden of carrying such airports to places like the Congo, which is where we're going next. Congo has now taken Belgium to court, and this is stemming from its experience during the colonial rule. And the story comes from Radio France International. It's the headline reads.

Milton Allimadi (16:43.065)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (16:47.151)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (16:49.41)
Belgium accused of colonial era crimes against humanity in Congo. Five mixed race women demanding reparations from Belgium after being taken from their mothers in Congo 70 years ago took their fight to a Brussels appeal court on Monday. The women accused the countries of crimes against humanity over a colonial era practice that saw them taken from their families and placed in institutions. are our pictures.

Milton Allimadi (16:54.977)
Absolutely.

Milton Allimadi (17:04.228)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (17:16.72)
Right.

Adesoji Iginla (17:18.882)
Okay, and the description reads, a mixed race kid from the Katenda convent, Monique Bitu Binge. And so he goes and names the names of the girls, wants to sue the Belgium state over their treatment in Congo. And we delve further. The complaint covers the period 1948 to 1961, 13 years.

concerns the entire policy of placing mixed -race children in a religious institution managed by the church, but which in fact resulted from a racial policy insaturated by the Belgian colonial administration in Congo. The Belgian authorities recognized that between 14 ,000 and 20 ,000 children were involved in this case, but despite their considerable number, their fate has long been ignored, according to Radio France.

International's correspondents in Brussels. In 2021, the judges rejected the motivation brought by the five plaintiffs saying, no one can be punished for a crime that did not exist at the time of the alleged fires. The women appealed the decision and a new trial opens on Monday. Wow, interesting. Sad.

Milton Allimadi (18:34.521)
Yeah, no, this is a very, very, very tragic and very interesting case on very many levels. Okay, so what period did they say?

Adesoji Iginla (18:41.058)
Hmm. That is 1948 to 1961.

Milton Allimadi (18:49.307)
All right, so let me speak on a number of factors here. number one, first of all, they said 20 ,000. That number is incorrect. And then the period 1948, 1961. Okay, so when was King Leopold establishing Congo Free Estate?

Adesoji Iginla (19:03.778)
to 1961. Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (19:14.242)
That was 1850... 1855?

Milton Allimadi (19:19.483)
18 -somethings, right, in the 19th century, right?

Adesoji Iginla (19:20.898)
Yeah, he went in 1855, it was, you know, confirmed post the Berlin conference. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (19:28.827)
Berlin, sorry, let's say 1890 is effective control. So you're telling me that these children who are being made and birthed only beginning in 1948? What kind of nonsense is this? What about the ones who were birthed from the 1890s onward to 1948? What became of those?

Adesoji Iginla (19:42.358)
you

Adesoji Iginla (19:49.53)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (19:53.623)
unless you are admitting to me that those were being exterminated as soon as they were born. Otherwise, where are they? Why should we not account for those crimes as well? So that's the first biggest glaring omission that we should, you know, pop see. As I say, when you read European created content, read it from a pan -African perspective.

and ask yourselves. So now I'm worried if many of our sisters and brothers did not notice that omission, why do we let them establish the terms of the conversation? Because you should ask yourself, did Congo become a Belgian colony in 1948? And the answer is no. So why are they selecting 1948 as the beginning point of the conversation?

and not 1890. Why? Because they want to limit liability. And that's why I said 20 ,000 is a low figure without even knowing what the true figure is. But I know that they were birthing children with African women, Europeans in positions of power, right? Having children from the 1890s onwards, even earlier than the 1890s, right?

Adesoji Iginla (20:53.46)
You

Adesoji Iginla (21:03.872)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (21:19.931)
But 1890s, let's take that, or even let's take 1884, 85, when Africa was officially partitioned as the beginning point. So, okay. And they were saying that there's a quote there that at the time, it was not a crime. Okay, so at one point slavery was legal. Who today would still say that slavery was not a crime? So that's something you can demolish very quickly.

Adesoji Iginla (21:20.214)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (21:46.274)
sure.

Milton Allimadi (21:46.811)
So of course they deserve reparations. And this also speaks to European arrogance. Why is this even coming as a lawsuit? Why was this not settled a long time ago by the European establishment in Belgium to say that this was a tragedy? Let's address it immediately so that it's a non -issue. Now, 2024, we are talking about this issue. Think about that. That goes to European arrogance.

Adesoji Iginla (21:57.947)
me go. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (22:07.754)
Well, the judge is that. Well.

Milton Allimadi (22:15.117)
And my final point is this, and then obviously I would like your own feedback. My final point is this. So I like that Radio France International is making this a big story. And deservedly, it is a big story, right? But now the obvious question is, okay, what about France? And what about all those children who were similarly birthed by French men in their African colonies? What about Portugal?

Adesoji Iginla (22:19.989)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (22:28.78)
Mm

Adesoji Iginla (22:44.15)
Britain.

Milton Allimadi (22:45.209)
The same thing. What about Britain? The same thing. So there's a lot of accounting. And the reason why the case was initially dismissed is because this case will open up a Pandora's box. If these five women succeed, lo and behold, we're going to have so many such cases like this going forward, and deservedly so. And then, of course, we should not stop there. We should go beyond that.

Adesoji Iginla (22:57.794)
box.

Milton Allimadi (23:13.901)
and address the crimes committed against Africans in other respects during the colonial era. So those would be my comments to this.

Adesoji Iginla (23:24.118)
There is, I just wanted to add whilst you were touching on the point of what, at what point do you enter the conversation? We also have to add Germany into the mix. Germany has to come into the mix, Spain comes into the mix. But more importantly, of recent has been Japan because miners also birthed kids in the Congo and those kids were denied

Milton Allimadi (23:40.301)
Absolutely.

Milton Allimadi (23:44.516)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (23:52.8)
Japanese recognition.

So it's huge. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Because when I pick this...

Adesoji Iginla (24:11.926)
Mm -hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (24:18.03)
Yes. Their case means, like you said, not only would they open a Pandora box, it would be a question of what sort of crimes took place. I mean, fine. We're looking at five recognized women who can voice their misgrivances. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (24:45.302)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

So again, where if this opens a case, what about other colonial crimes? In within the context of the so -called civilization mission, you're then going to have lots of issues like this back and forth. Then, mean, I just.

Adesoji Iginla (25:49.986)
Choo choo choo.

Adesoji Iginla (26:01.696)
The United States,

Adesoji Iginla (26:32.608)
Hmm. Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (26:41.502)
at the detriment of our own people, our own...

Adesoji Iginla (27:02.11)
You know, in the United States, Japan. Yeah. And yeah, for people who might be interested in forging their knowledge, deepening their knowledge with regards to this aspect of the stories, there are a couple of books here. So you could read Leopold's Ghost, which will lay the foundation for what transpired in Congo and also

sorry, it's Adam Hosschild's King Leopold Ghost. In fact, did five months ago, under this channel, I did 10 must read books on Congo. So if you go back, will see I did an overview of the books and what sort of timeline they're looking at, predominantly the subject matter which they focus on because no one book can cover

Congo. There's a lot has happened in the Congo. So, but if you want to read about the people, you could read George's and Zongola Interlager's book, A People's History from Leopold to Kabila.

This, in fact, yes, this is where you should start from. Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (28:36.77)
Professor Interlagia, yes. So we still, for our next story, we stay in Congo. And this time it's regarding, again, grab for resources. There's been a usual, there's been a coup. And again, this story comes from Associated Press and it's tied to Congo courts.

sentenced three Americans and 34 others to death on coup charges. The picture there shows the son of the leader of the coup who was killed in the middle. So his friend, Tyler Thompson Jr., Marcel Malanga, and Benjamin Ruben Zauman Poulin. Now, those three were American citizens. And the story reads,

Kinshasa AP, a military court in Congo handed down death sentences on Friday to 37 people, including three Americans, after convicted in a number of charges of taking part in a coup plot. The defendants, who had included a Brit, Britian, Belgian, Canadian, and several Congolese, can appeal the verdict on charges that include terrorism, murder, and criminal association. 14 people were acquitted in the trial, which opened in June.

Malanga's 21 -year -old son Marcel Malanga, who is a US citizen and two other Americans, were convicted in the attack. His mother, Brittany Sawyer, had said her son is innocent and was simply following his father, who considered himself president of a shadow government in exile. The other Americans were Tyler Thompson Jr., who flew to Africa, not to Congo. Who flew to Africa from Utah?

with Yunga Malanga for what his family believe was a vacation and Benjamin Ruben Zalman -Polin 36, who is reportedly to have known Christian Malanga through a gold -minding company. Do you read anything in what you just heard? Something stood out to me there.

Adesoji Iginla (31:02.284)
Why not?

Adesoji Iginla (31:09.579)
Okay?

Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (31:39.874)
You

Adesoji Iginla (31:45.462)
Taking out of the picture.

Adesoji Iginla (31:52.052)
You

Adesoji Iginla (32:33.684)
Not killed yet.

Adesoji Iginla (32:45.986)
Congrats.

Adesoji Iginla (34:11.083)
You

Adesoji Iginla (34:27.436)
He was troubled.

Adesoji Iginla (34:45.804)
But.

Adesoji Iginla (35:28.256)
Okay, I'm saved, saved, saved the thoughts on the execution. And this is my take. I would ask the question. I will not learn in from history. If again, you have, I'll give you an example. You remember, I think it was seven years ago when another Western was operative.

by the name of Chris Mann, took off from Harare to go and overthrow the government of Equatorial Guinea. And again, Equatorial Guinea, for those who don't know, sits on one of the largest oil and gas deposits in the African continent and decided, no, yeah, and decided they were going to overthrow the government. And here is a guy, a British guy,

who decides, planning with the son of the then former Prime Minister of Britain, Tacha, who resides in South Africa, to do something similar. Although they never went as far as putting boots on the ground, but they were caught, you know, with weapons and what have you. Again, he was put in prison and again, he should have suffered a death penalty, but...

You know what happens? The government gets leaned on and before you know it, they have this clemency. He's now back in Britain, you know, writing books and what have you. So the point I'm driving with that is, if that is the constant refrain of, we're going to pardon them, then they can go back and do movies, write books and what have you. When they come in and they kill people on the ground, what is the deterrent to them?

Adesoji Iginla (37:28.05)
Yes, that's what I'm saying. It's almost a recurrent pattern. So it's almost, we can do it.

Adesoji Iginla (37:59.682)
You

Adesoji Iginla (38:49.341)
It won't happen.

Adesoji Iginla (39:28.471)
Okay.

That would be the normal recourse.

Adesoji Iginla (40:15.062)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (40:22.584)
Bob, they're not, yeah. The... yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (40:31.052)
Ben O 'Hara.

Adesoji Iginla (41:04.704)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (41:25.291)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (41:46.082)
Kissing Gani. Yeah.

impunity.

Adesoji Iginla (42:00.906)
I mean

Adesoji Iginla (42:05.161)
So Comrade Milton mentioned going back to the sea stays when things used to be different. And this is the story you could read more. And this is a story of Katanga, 1960 to 1963. And the leader says, mercenary spies and the African nation that wage war on the world. In fact, that was Belgium's way of breaking up Congo and laid the foundation for the problems we currently have.

where certain parts of the country are intractable with outsiders poking their nose from time to time to disturb the relative peace that is on the ground. And now in the...

Adesoji Iginla (43:01.451)
Hmm

Adesoji Iginla (43:09.344)
Yep, speaking of mineral resources, you could also read Leo Zeleg's The Congo, Plunder and Resistance. Again, you know, so we hope you're listening, liking, please like, share and subscribe to the channel. And also passing on to those you think might be interested in knowing more about the great continent that is Africa. Now,

On to our next story, which again, there's a bit of Congo in it. again, now we're coming out to New York. And the story reads.

Adesoji Iginla (43:58.07)
The UN, the United States is not against. And this story comes from the New York Times, the Grey Lady. The United States backs Africa's UN Security Council bid with a catch. The announcement provides US support to permanent council seats for African nations, though not new veto powers.

but the part to add new members requires far more than White House approval. And this is the part that stood out to me. The Security Council has 15 members, five of which have permanent seats with vague to power, the United States, Russia, China, Britain, and France. The other 10 members of the council rotates every two years, adding any new permanent members will require the approval of all five permanent members and changing the UN Charter.

a dim prospect given the divisions amongst the members, adding only African members, only African countries as permanent members will likely get pushback from other countries including Japan, Brazil, India, Germany and Italy. For years those nations have lobbied for seats, again the world have evolved since the aftermath of World War II when the world bodies were founded.

Thomas Greenfield, who appoints the U .S. ambassador to the United Nations, may also be considering her legacy as a Nations as a term possibly draws to an end with the American elections looming in November and the likelihood that a new administration will appoint a new ambassador. During her tenure, she had made Africa a priority of her diplomacy. Laugh, laugh. Frequently traveling to the continent. And yeah.

Mrs. Greenfield said on Thursday that United Nations will support the expansion of the Security Council permanent membership to include not only African members but also a rotating seat for small island states. Announcements, however, came with a significant catch. The White House did not back providing new permanent members with the same vector powers to block resolutions that the current five permanent members have. I have my reservations, but you go first.

Adesoji Iginla (46:26.668)
Mm -hmm.

Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (46:36.662)
Hmm... True?

Adesoji Iginla (46:46.912)
You

Adesoji Iginla (47:06.754)
Yes. 54, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (47:30.708)
I am a member of the -

Adesoji Iginla (47:34.977)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (48:25.516)
But I won't, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (48:59.663)
makes correct

Adesoji Iginla (49:19.628)
You

Adesoji Iginla (49:30.867)
Hahaha

Speaking of, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (49:47.97)
Speaking of what you just said now, I'm going to read a part from Gerard Horne's White Supremacy Confronted. This is a huge book and it's a part about what Ms. Thomas Greenfield is saying. The White House did not back providing new members with the same veto power to block resolutions that the current five members have.

And it's this is from President Eisenhower's White House. President Eisenhower remarked parenthetically that he was having a continued protocol discussion with the State Department, which insisted that he invites half a dozen American Negroes to any White House reception of a distinguished African visitor. The gesture would not only engender heartburn in Salisbury.

and Pretoria. Salisbury is now known as Harare and Pretoria, South Africa. Because it was during this troubled era that during a briefing for US officials in Nairobi, the opinion was uttered that people of tropical Africa, potential slaves until a few decades ago, were still ill -fitted psychologically, sociologically, economically, and by education to undertake

any country's responsibilities. So if that kind of understanding still holds in 2024, it means we've not really moved from that mindset.

Adesoji Iginla (51:49.847)
you

Adesoji Iginla (52:21.164)
Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (52:53.228)
selfish because he was tired of shaking hands.

Adesoji Iginla (53:05.58)
And that is...

Adesoji Iginla (53:12.876)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (53:27.072)
Nori, exactly, exactly.

Adesoji Iginla (53:40.246)
with all the powers in the world.

Adesoji Iginla (54:14.528)
You want to be able to upstage what ever it is we decide we want to do.

Adesoji Iginla (54:25.213)
Exactly.

Adesoji Iginla (54:41.743)
Speaking of the UN, there was a book written three years ago, titled A Dialogue of the Deaf, Essay on Africa and the United Nations, edited by Adekaye Adebanjo and Helene Scallon. It's very, very instructive on Africa's, the UN's role in Africa. And also there is a very

sizable chapter here on Haiti. And I love the way they wrote it because they incorporated Haiti into the African conversation. You know, going into the upstaging of RST's government, flying him off into the Congo and, know, just sort of saying, listen, we know you're having conversations, but it's basically like you said, why would you give some, why would you welcome someone to a party?

to the table and not give them a plate to serve themselves. So again, or Vijay Prashad's, a history of the CIA, Washington Bullets, a history of the CIA, who's an assassination. He also talks about the structuring of the United Nations and how forget the idea of, I can't, okay, yeah. Forget the idea of, quote unquote, security,

a seat on the permanent security council because the way the UN is structured following the Bretton Woods agreement Africa was never in the picture and would never be in the picture.

Adesoji Iginla (57:00.64)
Yeah, I'll be good.

Adesoji Iginla (57:23.489)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (58:54.018)
Speaking of...

Adesoji Iginla (59:03.351)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (59:15.66)
So playing the devil's advocate based on the framework of what Africa is at the moment, who would you legislate or going by what the New York Times was writing there, who would you consider to be members of the permanent security? Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (59:44.482)
Mm

Adesoji Iginla (59:55.874)
You

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:09.076)
Ouch. Okay. Speaking of missing in action, we go to for our last story, we go to Tunisia. And this comes from the UK's newspaper, The Guardian. And it's titled EU fears for its for its human rights credibility as Tunisia crosses depends descent. Leaks shows the lead says document detailing deterioration on the archive side.

will fuel concerns about the bloc's migration deal with his country. The EU fears its credibility is at stake as it seeks to weigh growing concerns over the crushing of dissent in Tunisia, while preserving a controversial migration deal with the North African country, according to a leaked document, an internal report drafted by the EU Diplomatic Service, seen by Guardian, details a clear deterioration of the political climate and a shrinking civic space.

under the Tunisian president, Seyed, who has suspended parliament and concentrated power in his hands since starting his term of office in 2019. EU officials expect Seyed to remain in power after presidential elections on 6th of October. The buildup to the vote has been marked by jailing of opponents and the prosecution of dissenters under the pretext of spreading false information. Sounds familiar?

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:47.746)
Woo.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:00.906)
Mm. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:20.158)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:28.46)
black Africans and dumping them in desert pregnant women hmm

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:44.042)
We go.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:11.114)
Yeah, to push away from, yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:16.364)
about him.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:22.326)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:35.394)
and he suspended Parliament since 2019.

You

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:46.07)
Penny Parliament, exactly.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:51.458)
And you're still talking about your credibility.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:59.031)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:24.114)
Yeah, for over four years. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:43.858)
It's mean it's shocking it sometimes when I read the western press

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:57.826)
When you read their press, they start off by first and foremost creating a distance, a buffer between, I mean, it's not really a buffer, but it's almost like a psychological buffer with words by us, them, and then you begin to wonder like, what are you doing? You've been working with this guy.

yes you've been working with this guy since 2019 and now all of a sudden all of a sudden you get a prick of conscience i mean it's it's mind -boggling it's mind -boggling but you know

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:58.118)
Yeah, 6th of October. Yes. And they will continue working with him as long as he stops. As long...

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:12.01)
Mmm. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:17.419)
Yeah, but...

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:22.08)
yeah but still but still as long as it stops migrants from coming to Greece or to to the larger Europe they were fine with it. Speaking of Greece

Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:40.054)
for services rendered.

Hmm. Anyway.

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:16.044)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:21.964)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:30.72)
Yes, on that just note, we've come to the end of another episode. And thank you all for coming through, for our listeners. And yes, if you want to have the audio version, the audio version should be available on all platforms tomorrow. And yes, we hope to have this conversation again next week. Hopefully with.

other news but you know they keep giving. The western press is a Christmas father that keeps giving gifts and again we have to thank comrade Milton Al -Mahdi for coming through and yes any final words?

Adesoji Iginla (01:08:19.562)
Yeah, Victor Aseta. And from me until next week, it is, I'll see you later.