EP 9 African News Review I Adesoji Speaks Knowledge 🌍

In this conversation, Adesoji Iginla and Milton Allimadi discuss various topics including the history department at Howard University, the DNC's convention, two-tier policing in the UK, the US military's presence in Niger, and the diplomatic fallout between Mali and Ukraine. 

They critique the media's coverage of these issues and highlight the need for critical analysis and questioning of narratives. The conversation covers various topics, including the proxy wars between Ukraine and Russia in Africa, the political situation in Sudan, the biased reporting of Western media, and the need for Africans to engage with and challenge Western narratives.

It also discusses the recent protests in Nigeria and Kenya, the role of history in understanding the present condition of African countries, and the commodification of African resources by Western powers. 

The conversation concludes with a discussion on the demonization of Africans and the importance of decolonizing our minds.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Milton Allimadi's Return to School
03:12 Discussion on the DNC Convention and Race Issues in the UK
10:34 US Military's Withdrawal from Niger
19:23 Diplomatic Fallout between Mali and Ukraine
31:02 Critique of Media Coverage and Narratives
37:46 Proxy Wars and Genocides in Africa
44:06 Protests in Nigeria and Kenya
57:55 Ronald Lamola and South Africa's Relations with the West
01:04:30 The Role of the Media in Shaping Public Opinion
01:11:41 The Commodification of Africa and Its Resources

Transcript

Adesoji Iginla (00:05.004)
Yes, good evening, good evening, and good afternoon, good day, whatever it is you're finding us. And welcome again to African News Review. And with me, as usual, is our in -house analyst, experts, explorer, new low return students. And I'm sure he will tell you all about that. And is none other than comrade Milton Ali Mahdi. How are you, sir?

Milton Allimadi (00:31.034)
Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for that wonderful introduction. And yes, with regard to our newly returned student, I just completed my first week as a student in the history department, a PhD program at Howard University. Howard University, of course, is renowned, hollowed grounds for some of the legends who have walked the pavement here.

In fact, one of my favorite was Eric Williams. Eric Williams, of course, is the author of Capitalism and Slavery, which was in fact part of his PhD dissertation from back in the day. And of course, I strongly recommend that book for anyone who has not read that book. Very many people that are gain renowned went to Howard. One of our

Adesoji Iginla (01:02.984)
who wrote, capital. Yeah. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:18.382)
Well,

Milton Allimadi (01:28.916)
the most active ones of course as you remember was Kwame Ture, aka Stokely Carmichael as well. So with him, I understand when he would, because he went for his undergrad here, he would come in the beginning of the semester and he would get the reading list and on the books and then that was it. The next time they see him would be exam time.

Adesoji Iginla (01:37.026)
Yes. Stokely call Michael.

Adesoji Iginla (01:54.754)
He's gone.

Milton Allimadi (01:58.306)
And it would still ace the exams anyway, because he was a brilliant student, you know. He went to one of the special high schools for talented students in New York City. Yeah, I think he went to Stuyvesant High, one of those, you know, schools for really, really outstanding students. So, yeah, I'm here and I really am already enjoying the classes, even though many of you know I've been teaching as an adjunct professor for

Adesoji Iginla (02:22.936)
us.

Milton Allimadi (02:27.8)
eight years at John Jay College and for two years at the Columbia Graduate School of Journalism. It's very different when you are now focused on a particular topic. And of course, as you know, my interest has always been the history of demonization of African people globally and in Africa in particular. And as you know, it was also the subject of my book, Manufacturing Hate, how white writers created

Adesoji Iginla (02:52.439)
Heat, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (02:56.686)
the racist image of Africa. So now I want to broaden that research. In addition to Africa, want to create, to also look at other Africana communities in the United States, for example, in the Caribbean and in South America and combine them together with the research for Africa, which of course I want to broaden as well. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (03:24.116)
Yes, thank you. Thank you for that. quick question, what was your initial take on the DNC's convention? Because of the unique importance to African people, we have the major flag bearer being someone of African descent and African and Indian descent. And so what's your initial assessment?

Milton Allimadi (03:45.207)
Absolutely.

Correct.

Right, okay, and I want to see it in a broader perspective because when people say Indian descent, where do Indians come from? They're African. In fact, everybody comes from Africa, right? And Indians, you know, if you look at superficially, the superficial aspects are close to African in terms of, you know, appearance, right?

Adesoji Iginla (03:58.594)
Be well. Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (04:04.151)
Hmm, yes.

Adesoji Iginla (04:18.434)
Yes?

Milton Allimadi (04:19.432)
genetically, it doesn't matter whether it's so -called Indian, know, so -called European, genetically, DNA -wise, we are very identical, all of us, because we all originate from Africa. So I'm hoping that, in fact, part of the research I do, part of the writing I do, to demystify that false representation and false projection.

that there's anything other than the human race. But of course, it's important because we have been victimized as a result of this false depiction that the Europeans, and of course, by implication, that Europeans were much more superior to non -Europeans. So that's why when we have people like Barack Obama becoming president,

Adesoji Iginla (05:07.288)
Period. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (05:15.222)
It is historic in that sense that we are breaking these doors of exclusion. You see? So, yes, I agree with you. It is still worth talking about, but we need to also raise the counter narrative that in fact there's no such thing as racist because this is the only way that we can condition the younger generation to start thinking correctly when it comes to the so -called

Adesoji Iginla (05:22.414)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (05:34.291)
There's nothing exceptional about.

Milton Allimadi (05:44.632)
race issues. But to go back to your question, yes, it is historic because, of course, you know, as you recall, President Obama, that itself, that itself was unique. It made you realize that even with all the rigidity and backwardness that still exists in the United States, there has been progress when you talk

about where we are compared to the 50s, compared to the 60s, right? Compared to the history of the United States from the era of enslavement. Although it's quite ironic that after enslavement era ended during the reconstruction, as you know, there was progress when it became in terms of black elected officials, right?

Adesoji Iginla (06:35.039)
Mm -hmm.

Milton Allimadi (06:36.46)
started flourishing all over the country. Then of course there was a backlash against that, against that reconstruction either, which in fact then led to the rise and growth of the KKK and the lynching, then reactionary, which took us to the phase of history until we got to the civil rights movement in the 1960s. So in a way we are replaying the history again of

what reconstruction was supposed to accomplish but had been hijacked, right? So now we are seeing Barack Obama, we're seeing Kamala Harris. So in that sense, yes, it's historic, it's important. But on the other hand, we also have to keep our eyes on the prize. The superficial aspect is not sufficient. Structurally, the United States, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (07:08.152)
close to.

Adesoji Iginla (07:11.714)
Yep, yep, yep.

Milton Allimadi (07:33.198)
the epicenter of global finance capitalism right now is the most, one of the most unequal societies in the world with so much wealth concentrated within a small population. That's the kind of conversation we need to start having, but those kinds of conversations are not really popular. Okay, so many of the people that spoke,

Adesoji Iginla (07:49.472)
liver. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (08:01.368)
spoke about Trump and how a danger he is to democracy. He is anti -union and all that kind of stuff. But I don't think you recall many people there criticizing finance capital itself. You see?

Adesoji Iginla (08:19.726)
No, you can't do that at such a forum.

Milton Allimadi (08:22.884)
You can't do it as a forum. You can't do it in the kind of United States we have. So at the end of the day, while I will agree with those who will say that the Kamala Harris is much, much better than having Donald Trump back in the White House, that in itself is not a sufficient argument.

Adesoji Iginla (08:50.456)
argument.

Milton Allimadi (08:52.216)
In the long run, it's not. In the long run, wealth will continue to be concentrated within a small percentage of the population. The working class much more impoverished. Instead of three jobs, you now will need four five jobs just to survive. And so in a sense, we are saying that the Republicans, the Democrats, those as being the only or two of the options,

Adesoji Iginla (08:58.018)
is setting class, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (09:21.134)
that is not sufficient to take this country where it needs to be taken.

Adesoji Iginla (09:26.766)
I mean, before we delve into today's articles, just a final word. I suppose if you do get over this hurdle, then the conversation can start about expanding the party structures in terms of looking across the world where they have multiple parties instead of a two -party system like you currently have, where it's, you know, so.

Milton Allimadi (09:49.456)
Absolutely. And that goes back to the same point, which I think, you know, I made in our previous conversation that the late Julius Nyerere of Tanzania, that brilliant African leader, said to an American journalist, the United States and the world would be a much better place if the US had an opposition party.

Adesoji Iginla (09:57.378)
Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (10:13.607)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (10:13.658)
to which the American journalists said, what do you mean, Mr. President? We have the Democrats and the Republicans. And Yerere said, that's the problem. Both of them are capitalist and imperialist. You need a true opposition party.

Adesoji Iginla (10:26.872)
You

Adesoji Iginla (10:32.52)
Yes. Okay, so coming back to today, obviously we're talking about the news. Race is central in the recent political upheaval in the UK, as it was in the two party conventions that played a key role in how the conversations were shaped. coming back to the UK, the UK recently experienced

what were known as race riots, largely based on misinformation. But in a subsequent video I did sitting with another friend of the show, we talked about the experience within the UK and how race underscores a lot of things that happened here. But as opposed to on the United States side, where it's much more overt, here it's covert.

It's whispered. It's the nod. It's the wink. It's the look. But that's been said, you often get fed this dosage in the media. Now, speaking of the media, one member of the conservative party, which is the opposition party in the United Kingdom here, seeking to become the leader of the Tory party or what we known as the conservative party over here, the opposition, has now decided to

father found the flames and in doing so she said there is a two -tier policing system in the United Kingdom. One for locals and one for migrants. And you can know that didn't play well with two demographics. One was the population and the other being the police. So I'm going to share this and it comes, the first story comes from The Guardian.

Milton Allimadi (12:09.104)
Right.

Adesoji Iginla (12:30.038)
and its title Pretty Patel's laughable claim of two -tier policing putting police officers at risk. Neil Basu, ex -head of counterterrorism, says former Home Secretary's remarks are divisive and untrue. The former head of the UK counterterrorism has accused Pretty Patel of putting officers at risk after the Tory leadership hopeful made divisive comments about the two -tier policing since far -rights

riots erupted across England and Northern Ireland, obviously the week before last week. And there has been false claims on social media that police are treating white people taking part in the disorder. You see, notice they use the word disorder instead of rioting. More harshly than minority groups. In an interview with the Times on Sunday, Patel said, it seems to be a perception of two -tier policing. She added,

We are seeing the police being absent in some areas and I think it is right that the government should be held account. Meanwhile, on the previous Monday, Nigel Farage, head of the Reform Party, claimed that ever since soft policing of the Black Lives Matter process, the impression of two -tier policing has become widespread. On Tuesday, his thoughts were echoed when Elon Musk called the Prime Minister two -tier care in relation to

playing on his name. question is, does the media have a role in how it manages its input? Or what do you say to this?

Milton Allimadi (14:10.338)
Okay, so you know, here's the irony. She's actually correct in what she's saying in terms of two -tier policing, but the victims of two -tier policing have actually been non -Europeans in the United Kingdom.

Adesoji Iginla (14:17.11)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (14:28.012)
So of course it's very disingenuous for her to turn it upside down. But that's what right wingers do. That's what so -called conservatives do. And I don't even know what the term conservative means, to be honest with you. Are you saying, you know, we want to go back to enslavement? We want to go back to, you know, non -whites, you know, not allowed in this area? Of course, you know, in...

Back in the day, if she and her family, their car was to break down somewhere in the South, in the United States, and they're surrounded by some KKK members, it's highly unlikely that they would survive, that she would survive. So if she had lived in that era,

and found herself about to be swinging from the branch of a tree. I wonder, would that person be talking this kind of nonsense that she's talking today? She's turning it upside down. It's like what they've turned in this country, for example, the whole policy is to try to increase inclusiveness, And DI, diversity.

Adesoji Iginla (15:22.913)
Mmm.

Adesoji Iginla (15:47.479)
equity and inclusion.

Milton Allimadi (15:47.704)
for equity and inclusion. They've turned it into something, you know, which is supposed to be really bad because you're unqualified non -Europeans. And on that basis alone, they're getting positions that they don't deserve. We all know the history of police brutality.

in the United States. know the history of police brutality in the United Kingdom. So she's really, it's a mockery of those who lost their lives due to police brutality in the United Kingdom. So mockery to their families who suffer the pain and still endure the pain. For her to say that victims

of two tier police here, actually Europeans. It's quite outrageous. And I hope that the criticism against her is put in that context. And not just to say that her words are dangerous because they may in fact expose police officers to harm. think beyond that, the damage that it does to me is in fact...

to diminish the danger of the historical manifestation of two -tier policing in the United Kingdom.

Adesoji Iginla (17:21.76)
Okay. I mean, I would just like to add that although she is hopeful of being the next leader of the conservative party, it's looking highly unlikely because there are two frontrunners and even those two frontrunners don't make happy reading for people that look like them. Ironically, one of them is Kemmy Badenok and she is on record as saying

There is no such thing as racism in the United Kingdom. The other close, the other one who is close to her, Robert Jenrick, is the one who said, and I quote, anyone who says allow Hakuba on air or in public should be arrested and jailed. So, I mean, you can't begin to make stuff up. It's...

Milton Allimadi (18:19.908)
Yeah, you know, I remember there was a press conference many years ago when Trump had just been president for a short while. And I think it was a German journalist who asked him the question that I hope some of these people can be asked, like somebody who says there's no such thing as race in United Kingdom. And her question was so simple, but to the point that Trump, was one of the questions.

Adesoji Iginla (18:30.243)
Mm

Milton Allimadi (18:49.708)
I realized he fumbled and could not even respond to. She said, Mr. President, why do you say things you know not to be true?

Adesoji Iginla (18:58.85)
Cool.

Milton Allimadi (19:00.336)
He couldn't come up with a response. It struck him as boom. He didn't even say, that's nonsense. I don't say things. I know not to be untrue. Nobody had ever posed the question that way to him. Mr. President, why do you say things you know not to be true? I said, wow. And I was waiting for his response. And basically could not.

Adesoji Iginla (19:13.606)
Because that would be a lie. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (19:28.814)
I don't remember what he said, but he could not respond to the question and went to the next question.

Adesoji Iginla (19:31.98)
Because if he says he doesn't, that in itself is a lie.

Milton Allimadi (19:35.594)
Absolutely, you see. So I want somebody who says there's no such thing as racism in United Kingdom to be asked that question, you know. Madame or sir, why do you say things you know not to be true?

Adesoji Iginla (19:47.755)
yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (19:53.14)
Okay, speaking of things that are true, the Pentagon has finally released the bases they previously held in Niger Republic back to the Nigerian authorities after they've been told to, you know, thank you for coming and you can leave now. And it's been a while coming, but it's finally happened because we go to

Milton Allimadi (19:54.266)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (20:23.212)
Radio.

the next story, which is coming from the New York Times, no other. And it reads, the Pentagon hands over bases in Niger as extremism spreads in the Sahara. Can you see how they qualify the bases?

Milton Allimadi (20:40.408)
It's amazing, you know? But the headline alone, you know, it's so filled with misinformation, you know, propaganda, you know? It's, you know, yeah. Thank you.

Adesoji Iginla (20:49.346)
Misinformation. Yeah, but we shall break that down. Okay, hold that thought. Relations between the two countries soured after a coup last year, now the United States is scrambling to find new security partners. The US military turned, okay, the story is written by Eric Schmidt reporting from Washington.

Milton Allimadi (21:16.472)
Right. Who is a very one of the most experienced reporters, actually, and is highly considered in the in the realm of media. But you see, that's why when we had a chat before the show started off the record, I was really making the case that there's a major, major crisis in journalism. You see, and unless we combine.

Adesoji Iginla (21:21.633)
Okay.

Okay, so.

Adesoji Iginla (21:28.323)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (21:44.548)
journalism with serious knowledge of history, politics, and economics, I think the world is in quite grievous danger when we have somebody who is renowned in journalism. But on the other hand, we can't blame him for all of it because a lot of journalism is also controlled by the editor in, by who the publisher is, and that on politics. They talk about

Adesoji Iginla (22:06.018)
Yeah. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (22:11.948)
objectivity in journalism. You know, it's absolute nonsense, you know. So that's part of the issue as well. When it comes to the headline, which is glaringly misleading, we could say that's not really his problem because he doesn't write, you know, the headline. But the headline is also based on what is in the article itself that you're going to, you know, expound on. But please go ahead.

Adesoji Iginla (22:24.568)
Mm

Adesoji Iginla (22:39.894)
Okay, so he writes, the US military turned over control of two bases, I thought they had one. So it's two, two bases in Niger to local forces on Monday, ending a a years long counterterrorism mission in the West African country, even as violent extremism remains on the rise in the region. A group of US troops

boarded an Air Force cargo plane and flew out of a hundred, they even put a price tag on it, a 110 million airbase in central Niger that was built with Pentagon money. Amongst the last of 1 ,000 personnel that Washington has agreed to pull out by September 15, a small number of troops will remain for a short time to wrap up administrative details, officials said. Relations between the worst close partners sawed after

Niger's military toppled the civilian -led government last year and ordered the US troops to leave. Military junta in Mali and Burkina Faso have also ordered US and French troops out in recent months and the American officials are now scrambling to find new security partners in coastal West Africa. Those negotiations could take months or longer. as the group has declared, however, as groups that have declared allegiance to Al -Qaeda,

and Islamic State's Menes Lad Swarfs of the Sahel, the vast semi -arid region south of the Sahara, where US counter -terrorism efforts have been focused. This does not make safeguarding US security interests in the Sahel that much harder. Major General Kenneth P. Ekman of the Air Force, the top army officer overseeing the withdrawal, said in the telephone interview from Niyami, Niger's capital, the threats from ISIS and al -Qaeda in the region

are getting worse every day. Over to you.

Milton Allimadi (24:38.892)
Okay, all right, so I guess we should go back to the headline first of all. If you could scroll back up to the headline.

Adesoji Iginla (24:43.35)
Okay.

Milton Allimadi (24:49.284)
All right, so Pentagon hands over bases in Niger as extremism spreads in the Sahel. All right, so first of all, the implication here is that what the Nigerian authorities are doing is mind boggling and completely reckless and incompetent. Why are you kicking the good old US military presence out of your country?

Adesoji Iginla (24:49.41)
So the head...

Yes.

Milton Allimadi (25:18.412)
when extremism by Islamist insurgents is spreading in your country. Why are you doing that? Of course, the implication is that the presence of those troops there have been a good thing for both the US and for the people in Niger in driving back or defeating

Adesoji Iginla (25:23.532)
He's on the rise. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (25:47.024)
the Islamists. So here's the question then. Why is the story not about the failure of the U .S. military presence in Niger? We are told that you have a base that cost 110 million dollars to build. It has all the sophisticated equipment, weaponry and other equipment.

Adesoji Iginla (25:59.106)
Ooh.

Adesoji Iginla (26:04.654)
$10 million.

Milton Allimadi (26:14.042)
They're telling us you have more than a thousand US soldiers there and they have been there and they're just leaving now. So why have they not been successful in helping the people of to defeat this insurgency? And should that not be the story? Let's examine why the mission has failed. Would that not be a much more beneficial story?

Adesoji Iginla (26:38.926)
True? Yeah?

Milton Allimadi (26:39.312)
to educate the US perhaps on what they might be able to do differently, what the people of Nizha should do differently in countering this insidiousness. So you see, it presumes that everybody who's reading the story is just a fool and cannot question and think for themselves. That is the obvious story. You have a $110 million base, right? You have all the equipment that you need in fighting. You have a thousand soldiers and presumably,

Adesoji Iginla (26:53.761)
You

Milton Allimadi (27:09.614)
they're much, much better trained than the soldiers of the Niger military. Otherwise, you would not have them there. So why have you not defeated the insurgency?

Adesoji Iginla (27:15.406)
of gay? True?

Adesoji Iginla (27:22.648)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (27:22.734)
Where is the story? Should that not be in the lead? You know, it's amazing, which then raises the whole question, what is the true purpose of their presence in Niger? Number one. Number two, what is the true purpose of this article that the New York Times is printing and publishing to the world? You see, I would like to ask these questions that I'm posing now to the reporter that wrote that story.

Adesoji Iginla (27:32.675)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (27:50.04)
Rick Schmitz.

Milton Allimadi (27:50.35)
Why did they not write an article saying, US withdraws as mission to defeat insurgents fail? You see, I would be curious. That to me is a much more useful story to find out why this mission has not been successful. So you failed and now you want to blame the military in Niger that just came to power.

Adesoji Iginla (27:59.821)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (28:18.372)
just over a year ago, last year in August. So they're taking over power a year ago, because it was last August, and we're still in August, right? Is that the reason why your mission failed? It can't be. Why had you not succeeded before they took over power? All these questions need to be raised in a serious conversation. And we need to find out why they're spending so much money.

Adesoji Iginla (28:20.781)
Yep.

Milton Allimadi (28:49.14)
on this abortive operation. They cannot be that incompetent. I doubt it. So what is the true mission of their presence there? That is the missing story. And I hope Eric Schmidt goes back and does a follow -up story. I hope somebody sends him.

this comment that we're discussing so that he can come back and rehabilitate his reputation as a journalist by addressing those questions.

Adesoji Iginla (29:22.03)
I mean, you pose the question as to what the aim of the New York Times is for putting out the story holding this slant. I'm sure it's not lost on our viewers and listeners that the New York Times is people of the US imperialism. So that kind of journalism you probably won't get from the New York Times. I mean, if we're to go by

Milton Allimadi (29:41.68)
Correct.

Milton Allimadi (29:48.196)
Correct. Thank you.

Adesoji Iginla (29:51.38)
your book, which is how manufacturing hate how Africa was media, you know, demonized in the media, a major focus was the New York Times. It speaks volumes that expecting more from them is counterintuitive.

Milton Allimadi (30:00.324)
Correct. Correct.

Yes.

Milton Allimadi (30:12.356)
Right, right. They're insulting really the intelligence of people that think, you know, of thinking, of thinking people, you know. And it's very troubling because we presume that we used to have during the Soviet era, which was an empire, of course, the United States is also an empire.

Adesoji Iginla (30:18.499)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (30:40.814)
So the Soviet Union, its mouthpiece was pravda, you see? Pravda. And everybody knew pravda was propaganda. yes, of course. Everybody knew pravda was propaganda. But people that became accustomed to that propaganda knew how to analyze it, you see?

Adesoji Iginla (30:45.39)
my god, that's a long time ago. Pravda reports. Yep.

Milton Allimadi (31:04.128)
knew how to think about the opposite of what was really being said and to read between the lines, you see. So you became clever in how you read Pravda. But most people, the vast majority, are not clever when they read the New York Times because they presume, this is free journalism, everything is objective.

Adesoji Iginla (31:11.32)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (31:15.362)
breed.

Milton Allimadi (31:30.572)
editor has no agenda, the publisher has no agenda. So we lower our critical analysis antenna when we're reading publications like the New York Times. That is a problem. So generally, a regular reader would not raise the questions that we are posing now.

Adesoji Iginla (31:40.844)
I could use the, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (32:00.388)
in our conversation and that's the problem you see.

Adesoji Iginla (32:04.372)
And the second question you asked, which is why has the mission failed? Could it be attributed to the fact that when you toppled a country, just top of where Niger sits, I believe the name of the country is Libya, and weapons become awash like candies on the, you know.

Milton Allimadi (32:19.127)
Yep.

Milton Allimadi (32:23.095)
Absolutely.

Milton Allimadi (32:30.916)
Yes, yes.

Adesoji Iginla (32:31.81)
There is no way you're going to, once that genie has been let out of the bottle, there is no way that genie is going back in. And so you create a problem and now prefer a solution.

Milton Allimadi (32:36.976)
Hmm.

Yeah, you know, and then you wash your hands of any responsibility, right? And then you blame the Nigerian military, we just took power just one year ago. It's very laughable, you see? It is. It is. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (32:56.114)
It is, it is, it is, it is, it is. Anyway, speaking of the fallout from the said invasion, we go to our next story, which is just sideways, westward. We go to Mali. Mali has, based on the fallout of the war in Europe,

Milton Allimadi (33:16.462)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (33:23.311)
Bye.

Adesoji Iginla (33:23.552)
And this story comes from Radio France International. It reads, Mali caught ties with Ukraine following deadly clashes near Algerian border. Mali has announced it is breaking diplomatic relations with Ukraine, accusing a senior Ukrainian official of having admitted Kiev's role in a heavy defeat that Mali troops suffered in July.

During a military engagement last month in the north of the country, members of the Russian mercenary group Wagner were reportedly among the casualties in the defeat and which Mali military leaders have blamed on separatists and jihadists. Speaking on Sunday, government spokesman Colonel Abdullah E. Maiga said Mali will break off relations with Ukraine with immediate effect.

The military government in Bamako has reportedly been shocked to learn of remarks by Andriy Yusov, spokesman for Ukraine's military intelligence agency, the GUR, who had admitted Ukraine's involvement in a cowardly, treacherous, and barbaric attack by armed terrorist groups that had led to the death of Malian soldiers, Maiger added. The propaganda in itself reads, speaking on

Ukrainian television. Yousuf said the whole world was aware that the rebel has received necessary data that allowed them to carry out the operation against the Russian war criminals. So on Saturday, Senegal summoned the Ukraine's ambassador for having published the comments in which he described as a propaganda video on its Facebook page. Maiga's went on to say Ukraine's action had violated

malian sovereignty and unconstituted and unacceptable foreign interference and support for international terrorism. That's... This sort of reads like a flip of the script. Because if that were to happen in Ukraine, and one was beating his chest about what has transpired on the battleground, they would probably be accused of the same thing.

Milton Allimadi (35:43.938)
Right, Ukraine.

And here's the irony of Iran, right? We just discussed Niger, correct? We discussed the US supposedly there to help the Niger government fight against Islamists and Syrians, correct?

Adesoji Iginla (36:16.942)
Correct.

Milton Allimadi (36:19.022)
The United States has pumped billions of dollars with a B to Ukraine, correct? By the way, money that could, well, they're pumping billions of dollars there. The Republican Council of the United States trying to block debt forgiveness.

Adesoji Iginla (36:26.958)
because I billions with a B or with an Okay. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (36:49.05)
for students. They're trying to social programs that would benefit impoverished communities all over the United States. But that's another discussion. They're sending billions of dollars. That's already, they've sent that already. That's fact, correct? And we just discussed that in Niger, they're helping to fight against the Islamists.

Adesoji Iginla (36:49.368)
for students.

Adesoji Iginla (37:10.328)
Yes, correct.

Adesoji Iginla (37:17.944)
Correct?

Milton Allimadi (37:19.258)
So now let's go to Mali, where you have a government, the military government, locked in combat against who? The slave Islamists insurgency, right?

Adesoji Iginla (37:31.15)
Insurgents?

Mm

Milton Allimadi (37:36.91)
Which side is Ukraine supporting?

Adesoji Iginla (37:41.218)
The insurgents at sweet sims. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (37:42.717)
the Islamists, right? With whose money?

Adesoji Iginla (37:47.212)
with the United States money.

Milton Allimadi (37:49.028)
with the United States money. So the same United States money, the same United States is fighting Islamists, supposedly in Niger, but indirectly supporting them in Mali. I would like Schmidt to address that issue in his next article as well. Think about that. Just think about that. Ukraine has no money of its own. So this is US money.

Adesoji Iginla (37:50.712)
Mm

Adesoji Iginla (37:58.658)
just across the border.

Adesoji Iginla (38:03.564)
You

Adesoji Iginla (38:10.912)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (38:17.026)
true? been yeah.

Milton Allimadi (38:19.266)
US intelligence, US weapons.

So the US indirectly is actually promoting.

Adesoji Iginla (38:26.904)
is fighting itself.

Milton Allimadi (38:32.652)
insurgency, Islamist insurgency in Africa. How can you be fighting it and supporting it at the same time? And why is this not a major story?

Adesoji Iginla (38:33.77)
Mm. Yep. Mm -hmm.

Milton Allimadi (38:44.088)
Why is this not front page in the New York Times? By Schmidt.

Adesoji Iginla (38:48.334)
Mmm. Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (38:50.724)
Because Ukraine and Russia are engaged in their proxy wars and direct wars on the African continent. Let's go to Sudan. In Sudan, we have the military government, the government in Khartoum and General Burhan. And he's fighting the rapid support.

Adesoji Iginla (38:59.416)
down continents,

Adesoji Iginla (39:09.368)
Mm

Milton Allimadi (39:19.536)
forces which is led by General Hemetiti, right? And of course he has the historical connection with the Janjaweed who was supposed to have committed the genocide in Darfur, correct? And right now the rapid support forces committing another genocide essentially in Darfur again and other regions of Sudan.

Adesoji Iginla (39:22.768)
I'm Edgy.

Adesoji Iginla (39:34.731)
for it.

Adesoji Iginla (39:41.631)
in the foreground.

Milton Allimadi (39:48.802)
So in Sudan, we have Russia actually supporting the rapid support forces. In Sudan, we have Ukraine supporting General Burhan in Sudan. So Russia and Ukraine are engaging the proxy war.

in Sudan on opposite sides, in Mali on opposite sides. There are no principles involved, no principle, right? In Sudan, the Ukraine is backing Avdurhan, the government, right? But in Mali, backing insurgents that are fighting against the government. That is a tragedy.

of this war, yet the United States is going around sending its Secretary of State or United Nations Ambassador on an African tour to get African countries to support Ukraine in its war with Russia, while at the same time we have Ukraine trying to bring down the government in Mali.

Adesoji Iginla (40:56.174)
Mmm.

Milton Allimadi (41:16.7)
And in Sudan, neither of these forces have clean hands. Why should we support any side in the war between Russia and Ukraine when both are also essentially supporting genocidal militaries in the Sudan? The government side has committed atrocities. The rapid support forces as well have been committing atrocities.

Adesoji Iginla (41:43.032)
Mm

Milton Allimadi (41:43.184)
That's a tragedy. Why is Schmidt not writing about that? Or, you know, maybe his hands are full, but they have about 1 ,700 reporters. Why is another one of those 1 ,700 reporters not writing about that?

Adesoji Iginla (41:50.305)
You

Adesoji Iginla (42:01.448)
Maybe they've not been given their matching orders yet.

Milton Allimadi (42:03.78)
There you go. There you go. And also, once again, I go back to the editing, the publishers, because a journalist might actually come. So the criticism is not directly on the journalist themselves alone, but to the structure of this media entity as well. Because sometimes a journalist could pitch a story and, you know, the editor may not be responsive.

I'll do it, you know?

Adesoji Iginla (42:36.13)
Yeah, but then surely the editor does have a primal view of what is going on in newspaper, an understanding of what is happening in the world, and then should work accordingly to prioritize the stories that sit on their platform.

Milton Allimadi (42:51.279)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (42:56.718)
Absolutely. And they could suppress a story. They could suppress a story. They would not be inclined. That was a good one. I think at the end of the day, if you are one of the major media outlets in a capitalist society, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (43:03.074)
Why would they do that? Why would they do that?

Adesoji Iginla (43:22.115)
Mm -hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (43:26.659)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (43:26.776)
Anything that would seem to undermine capital is something that should be off limits. Look at the Kenyan elections. When it seemed very clear that Raila Odinga was going to win the elections in Kenya, the last few articles about Raila by the New York Times did not fail.

Adesoji Iginla (43:38.507)
Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (43:48.397)
Mm

Milton Allimadi (43:56.484)
to mention again and again that he was a socialist. But it did not mention again and again the fact that his opponent, William Ruto, the current president, had been indicted by the International Criminal Court, had stood trial, had

Adesoji Iginla (44:02.508)
The S word.

Adesoji Iginla (44:14.348)
R -Retour. Mm -hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (44:19.886)
By the way, and I'll call, yep.

Milton Allimadi (44:25.56)
supposedly participated in the disappearance or elimination of some of the witnesses, which caused a great fear amongst remaining witnesses, which caused that case not to be dismissed, but to be suspended. So in fact, the case against him is very much of mine. Why was that not mentioned again and again and again, as opposed to mentioning the fact that Rayla is essentially again and again and again? So was this objectivity?

Adesoji Iginla (44:52.29)
Because obviously, yes.

Milton Allimadi (44:55.438)
Was this neutrality?

Adesoji Iginla (44:58.23)
I'll go with objectivity in inverted covers. So again, speaking of objectivity and speaking of one side of the world, one side of the continent gaining motivation from another side. Apparently Nigerians were out in the streets recently having their own little protest or as they will say, their own little moan.

And this story comes from The Guardian. It's an analysis piece written by Eromo Udbejule. Why are Nigerians protesting? Young people are aroused by events in Kenya. A demonstration against the president about the cost of living crisis has spread after youth groups saw protests across the continent, first a change in the law.

It says a protest organized by unions and youth groups about the cost of living crisis on Nigeria's democracy day, which happens to be June 12th, have passed off quietly, drawing up just a few hundred people in the country's biggest city, Lagos, and the capital, Abuja. Then things started to kick off in Kenya. Young Kenyans, angry at the prospect of increased levies on essential foodstuff, occupied parliament in Nairobi,

Amid violence that claimed more than 20 lives, Kenya's President William Ruto was forced to withdraw his finance bill and dissolve his cabinet, which he has since reformed. With one eye on securing reelection in 2027, Bola Tinumbu, the first career politician to become president in decades, and officials in his government, have swung into action. He immediately approved the 70 ,000 Naira

£34 minimum monthly wage against a backdrop of 40 % food inflation after weeks of prodding by the unions. Now this is the key part. In the days that followed, the military and the secret police said they would take to the streets to forestall violence in Africa's most populous country. Sources said ruling party members gave money to Ulema's Islamic scholars in the north and activated influencers in the south.

Adesoji Iginla (47:17.752)
Then, ruling party members, several leaders of student groups, religious clerics, and even opposition leaders began urging their co -competitors not to protest. Why the news about the protests got to the highest point at the moment is because Kenya has had an outing. Kenya is a small country compared with Nigeria. Benjamin Kalu, deputy leader of the House of Representatives, said in parliament, while offering to slash his salary by half. I'll come to that. Tell his cunt

tell his children to stay at home. The president is doing well said the women affairs minister, Oji Kennedy, Ohana. As rumors began to swirl in Abuja that their addresses had been handed to youth groups in order to target them. Politically exposed people flooded the airports at Lagos and Abuja headed from London, Riyadh and Washington with their families. Does that remind you of anything?

Milton Allimadi (48:18.394)
Yeah, so there are many elements to deconstruct in this report, this article. You know, first of all,

Adesoji Iginla (48:19.99)
Especially the last part.

Adesoji Iginla (48:24.492)
Hmm. Okay.

Milton Allimadi (48:39.338)
every situation is going to have its unique characteristics, right? In the case of Kenya,

Adesoji Iginla (48:45.218)
Yes, true.

Milton Allimadi (48:50.756)
there were a number of events that contributed to Ruta essentially backing off, right? Standing down. Which have not been well expressed in the articles about the Kenyan. Because here the implication is that, you know, we had

Adesoji Iginla (49:08.258)
meant it?

Mm -hmm.

situation.

Milton Allimadi (49:18.212)
a march against corruption in Uganda as well, you know, a few weeks ago. And the turnout was sort of similar to what the Nigerian experience has been. But that is not to say that the issues are not as pressing in those countries, right? Nigerians have proven that they can mobilize effectively to protest.

And the recent example, of course, is Ansar's campaign, which got, you know, the kind of global coverage that the Kenyan protest, the anti -tax high protest in Kenya got, similar coverage, right? Nigeria's had it already with Ansar's. So a clever article would look at it in that context, because if you just read it,

Adesoji Iginla (49:53.3)
the words of ancient god.

Milton Allimadi (50:15.81)
this way alone, then the implication is that all the issues are not that pressing in Nigeria. And maybe that's why the turnout was not similar to the one in Kenya. And the impact and outcome was not also similar to that in Kenya. So let's see the Kenya situation. What had happened after Ruto became president?

And you notice my selection of words, he became president. Because I'm not sure, to be honest with you, if he won the elections, right? But he became president. He became president. There were protests. Protests for many weeks, organized particularly by Rila Odega's party. And the protest sort of, you he backed off. I think...

Adesoji Iginla (50:46.936)
You

Adesoji Iginla (50:51.736)
to begin Prestant.

Milton Allimadi (51:12.354)
he got clear indication. And it was very obvious they sent some Western officials went there. Some US senators went to Kenya. You know, I think they made it clear to Raihla that the protest would not be tolerated, that they had accepted that Ruto was going to be president of Kenya. So now you cannot protest on the

allegation that you were robbed of electoral victory. The U .S. would not tolerate that. But then what happened? Another type of protest took hold on its own in Kenya. And that was the escalating food price, if you remember that. That was not, you know, Udang, whether Ruto, I mean, whether Udenga was endorsing that or not, it was immaterial.

Adesoji Iginla (51:43.7)
an election.

Adesoji Iginla (52:00.802)
Yeah, which was instigated by his finance bill.

Adesoji Iginla (52:11.01)
Yep, yep.

Milton Allimadi (52:11.258)
people who were starving started coming out on their own. So the momentum was already building, you see, the crowd size was already building organically because hunger and the food price escalation, fuel price escalation affects everybody. Whether you voted for Ruto, whether you voted for Raila or Dinka, you see, they already riled up.

Adesoji Iginla (52:37.513)
Raleigh or Dinger, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (52:41.924)
Then you have Ruto being endorsed by the US, as this is our man in Africa. He was invited to the White House. He's given a new status, right? His country and Ruto himself, right? He's meeting with all these prominent world leaders, right? So now people are following Ruto.

Adesoji Iginla (52:53.612)
His country is given a new status.

Milton Allimadi (53:10.992)
they're observing his actions and his words, correct? Because of the media attention he's getting. So RUTRO comes back to Kenya. The pressing issue is the issue of pushing that tax increase to be able to raise 2 .7 billion US dollars, correct? So that's going to involve increase in fuel price.

Adesoji Iginla (53:15.416)
Yes?

Milton Allimadi (53:40.214)
in fuel increase in food prices because you're adding taxes to be able to raise the money. People had already been protesting and coming out for high price of food and fuel. So that same protest which had already occurred many many weeks earlier, months earlier, was just revived. But the focus was on that particular

tax bill now. You see? So it wasn't something that, which is completely false, that the way the article presented it, that there was some protests in June, in Nigeria, and then in Kenya, sometime in June, it also picked up. No, no, not at all. It was a continuation of something that had occurred months ago that built up the momentum a long time ago.

Adesoji Iginla (54:32.589)
of what transpired before, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (54:39.772)
And combined with with Ruto's new status now, the people who are watching him cannot see him going around sending troops to just crush this protest, you know, and just kill people left and right. After you've already been, you were sitting next to Biden the other day and then you go home and then you go home. You sat on his chair, right? In his office.

Adesoji Iginla (54:52.558)
to Haiti.

Adesoji Iginla (55:02.412)
No, it was sitting on the chair.

Adesoji Iginla (55:06.798)
Please, that's in his chair, come on.

Milton Allimadi (55:08.664)
And now you go back home and you are mowing down your citizens. So his hands were actually tied. Was that the true Ruto? We will never know. But we know he could not take drastic actions. So as a result, the protest in Kenya.

Adesoji Iginla (55:15.288)
Mm -hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (55:21.176)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (55:30.082)
was able to succeed relative to what happened in Uganda, relative to what happened in Nigeria. But that does not mean that in Nigeria, the momentum will not continue to build up and that we will see like a version two or version three at some time in the future. And the same thing with Uganda as well. So that would be how I would analyze that article.

Adesoji Iginla (55:57.678)
Okay, just to mention in closing, they might even have a more motivating factor because it was reported in the Financial Times that the president, despite the ongoing living crisis, has bought himself a new plush Airbus jet to add to the presidential fleet.

Milton Allimadi (56:18.51)
You see, this is one of the things to me that is completely inexcusable when it comes to the African misrulership class. You see?

And I hope that because but also the young people leading the protest, they need to also be familiar with history, you know. So in a case like this, when you come out for version two, you should remind the Nigerian president and government that small, tiny Bukina Faso impoverished.

Adesoji Iginla (56:39.0)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (56:59.076)
had a true leader who did the opposite. You see? He said, why should you even fly first class when the plane lands down? He said, all of you are landing and arriving at the same time. Exactly, regardless of where you are on the plane.

Adesoji Iginla (57:03.992)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (57:15.552)
And if it falls out of the air, you're all going to die.

Milton Allimadi (57:24.9)
He said, if there are extra seats in a vehicle and no Mercedes, a Fiat or something, Renault...

Adesoji Iginla (57:34.924)
Yeah, Reno, Reno, yeah, Reno.

Milton Allimadi (57:39.458)
Why can't other ministers share?

So when you have an African leader who has really already shown the example of what needs to be done under the crisis we are facing, then you have this octogenarian or what have you. What does he need that playing for? How is it going to improve the welfare of the people of Nigeria? And our young people who...

forget some of the history sometimes. I hope you're listening to our conversation here. I hope you go back and look at, go to YouTube and watch that documentary, The Upright Man, Thomas Sankara, and learn from him and apply that knowledge in your struggles, you see? That's why the way I started the conversation, history is not good only for journalists. History is good for every African.

Adesoji Iginla (58:24.866)
deal, man.

Adesoji Iginla (58:33.507)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (58:43.022)
You know, as Mohammed Babu said in the postscript to Walter Rodney's How Europe Underdeveloped Africa, he said, in order to understand our current condition, we have to know where we came from. And in order to understand where we are going, we have to understand our current condition. See? So it all boils back to history once again.

Adesoji Iginla (58:59.33)
Welcome. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (59:07.224)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (59:13.486)
Speaking of history and speaking of present conditions, we go to South Africa for our next story and this comes from your favorite magazine, The Economist. So yeah, it reads, South African Foreign Minister wants better relations with the West. Roland Lamola views counts. He may be the next president. Hold our thoughts.

Milton Allimadi (59:24.13)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (59:42.606)
Since the general election of May 29th, South Africa has been asking how long its new government of national unity would last. The 11 -party pact anchored by the African National Congress and the ex -opposition, the Democratic Alliance, came about because the ANC lost its parliamentary majority for the first time. Despite some bickering, the two main parties in the union seem keen to stick it out, at least for now, at least for a while.

The novelty of the GNU has obscured another important change of the 32 appointments. Cyril Ramaphosa, the South African president made to his bloated cabinet the most intriguing was that of Ronald Lamoula as foreign minister. The replacement of Nalendi Pandor with a 40 year old has raised hopes that South Africa wishes to reset relations with the West after years of rising tensions.

and ahead of the G20 summit in the country next year. It is also a signal that Mr. Ramaphosa sees the youngest ANC member of his cabinet as a potential successor. The Economist recently spoke to him in his first interview with a foreign newspaper in his new job. Under Ms. Pandor's South African diplomacy became rather undiplomatic, at least towards America and Europe. Zealous.

self -righteous and activist as some of the words used by Western interlocutors to describe the 70 -year -old. Beloved by West Wingers, she hyped her West End counterpart, who increasingly resented being lectured on the apparent hypocrisy of their foreign policy.

Her posturing contributed to the belief that although nominally non -aligned South Africa was generally siding with anti -Western countries, it had repeatedly abstained on UN votes condemning Russia's invasion of Ukraine. It held naval drills with Russia and China on the first anniversary of the conflict. In May 2023, American ambassador alleged that a Russian ship, the Lady R,

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:58.862)
had picked up some weapons at a naval base near Cape Town a few months earlier. The South African government denies this. Last year, Mr. Ramaphosa hosted the BRICS summit at which Iran are invited to join the bloc. Ms. Pando attracts the eye of Israel by speaking to Hamas 10 days after his attacks on the October 7 and by visiting Tehran soon after. She championed South Africa's genocide case against Israel.

at the International Court of Justice. Mr. Lamola will be much more emuliant. He can laugh at himself when asked why the president gave him his job. He does a self -deprecating impression of Mr. Ramaphosa pointing to him at random. talks with his American and British counterparts have gone well. He wants to meet American lawmakers soon. Yeah, there's this part. The new coalition government will encourage less combative

would encourage a less combative foreign policy. The voters have forced us to work together said Mr. Lamola. The DA, a pro -western party has a de facto veto on policy so will curb the ANC's instincts. That is not saying much but the new government is arguably the least anti -western since 1994. Helped by the replacement of Tandy Modiso, a Russian fire

as defense minister. There is a love. When I was reading it, was like, my

Milton Allimadi (01:03:30.264)
Right. There's a lot, but there's not actually a lot at the same time. Yeah. And the easiest conclusion, of course, is that this is a temporary triumph of Western finance capital, but it will come at a tremendous cost. So when I say it's a temporary triumph, it means that

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:37.794)
Okay go on.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:51.49)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:04:00.324)
Of course, the fact that the ANC, desperate to hold on to power, of course, if it was just a question of holding on to power, it had the option of inviting the economic freedom fighters into party. It had the option of inviting MK into government, of course.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:18.958)
Mm

Milton Allimadi (01:04:30.2)
Zuma had already vetoed that and said that he would not go into government with the ANC so long as Ramaphosa remained the leader of the ANC. So the ANC decided that no, rather than get rid of Ramaphosa and form a government with MK, rather than form a government with Julius Malema's economic freedom fighters.

The preferable option was to form a government with the DA and Democratic Alliance. I don't even know why it's called the Democratic Alliance, the Outline Democratic Alliance. It opposes land reform, land restitution rather, right? And you will never hear the economists make

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:01.102)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:22.224)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (01:05:28.88)
as the lead story, the fact that a country with a European population of less than 10 % controls 72 % of the land 30 years after apartheid was supposed to have ended. What was apartheid after all?

It was the exclusive ownership of resources by the European minority. was colonialism. Correct? It was not replacing Africans with Europeans as presidents or ministers. So here we are still talking about the fact that, we have another African minister who is much more accommodating to imperialism, you know.

It's just mind -boggling, the arrogance of these articles, because the presumption is that we don't read between the lines. And the presumption is correct, actually. Many of us don't read between the lines. So they can write an arrogant and out -breach

outrageous and racist articles such as this. How can you write an article that does not all the time make reference to the fact that apartheid ended only superficially, just like colonialism ended superficially in the 60s in all of the African countries, superficial end to colonialism is comparable to the superficial end.

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:01.472)
in the 60s.

Milton Allimadi (01:07:11.352)
of apartheid does an ordinary African care whether the national president or the foreign minister is African more than he or she would care if his family had been allocated land? I very much doubt it if they're given the choice. The fact that they're not voting overwhelmingly for the ANC anymore, it means that that sense of euphoria has gone, you see?

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:23.448)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (01:07:41.742)
And if the choice was vote for the ANC or vote for being allocated land, what would they vote for? Obviously with the land so that they can take care of and feed their family. So we are having a conversation of the house of the world represented, the outside house represented by the economists and the elite in Africa represented by

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:48.428)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (01:08:11.152)
people like the foreign minister Ramola and the ANC and the DA and all those political parties. And the masses of the society are not even a part of this conversation because nothing is talked about here about the unemployment levels of Africans, of Black South Africans, which is more like 40%.

while the population of, and they make up 80 % of the population, while the European population, which is about 7 .4%, know, unemployment is like 7 .2 % or something like that, you know. We're not hearing that. Okay, so what are we hearing? We hearing that it's going to be less combative, right?

is going to be, I presume, more diplomatic because Naledi was undiplomatic. She was posturing, you know, all of these bad hypocrisy. These are buzzwords for how dare a Black African woman speak up to European men who run the rest of the world. That's what they're indirectly if you decode it.

Adesoji Iginla (01:09:14.164)
she was pointing out their hypocrisies.

Adesoji Iginla (01:09:25.186)
woman. Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:09:31.874)
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, yeah.

Milton Allimadi (01:09:34.704)
You know, so the, then there's ageism that she's 70 as if being 70 is a crime and this guy is 40. And that somehow that will translate into something better, know, and diplomatic at 70 posturing.

Adesoji Iginla (01:09:53.356)
and then challenges Israel's genocide in Champions.

Milton Allimadi (01:09:59.128)
as if she's the only person challenging that. So was she also coordinating all those protests on US campuses? Is she coordinating the protests in Michigan, where you have the danger that the Palestinian -American community may not come out to vote? Is it because of this outrageous South African foreign minister? It's amazing.

the nonsensical description here. Okay, so we're saying South Africa had the joined military exercise with the Russians, with Russia and China. While on the other end, you are actually arming and financing the genocidal war on Gaza. It's amazing, the arrogance of this article, you see? And I hope.

Adesoji Iginla (01:10:37.474)
Yeah, with Russia and China.

Adesoji Iginla (01:10:49.197)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:10:55.874)
We as African people get to read these articles much more critically, analyze them, and not only sit back, we interact with them. Because I told you how I used to engage the New York Times on a regular basis, know, beyond just the book. You know, I would send letters, I would send emails.

And I actually noticed there was response. I used to get regular feedback in the form of letters from the late Joe Lilleville, who was a serious person. He was once the correspondent in South Africa. And I mentioned him in my book because he would write letters to complain when some of his articles, critical of apartheid, had been thrown down by his editors. So he wrote to complain. So I knew this was a serious guy.

Adesoji Iginla (01:11:26.126)
You

Adesoji Iginla (01:11:36.482)
Mm. Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (01:11:50.274)
And later I became the managing editor and then it became the executive editor of New York Times. So he would write to me in response to my critique. First of all, he wrote to acknowledge my master's paper at Columbia and said, yes, you discovered crude and ugly material. And he said, this is some of the things I was trying to influence and change myself. But beyond that,

In subsequent years, I would criticize when they kept referring to tribal tribesmen in Africa. And he acknowledged that. And I noticed that very rarely do you now see the New York Times referring to tribal or tribesmen in Africa. So I say all this to suggest to people who are listening here that you have the right to engage the economists and all these other

Adesoji Iginla (01:12:35.606)
and grass cats.

Milton Allimadi (01:12:46.128)
publications, who have a very narrow perspective of Africa, think that the only thing that matters is the interest of the economists, the interest of the West. know, engage them, raise questions, challenge them in a very factual way that they cannot, you know, swim around. And in time, you may see some feedback and some changes. You know, you have nothing to lose anyway, because if you don't engage them, they're going to continue doing it.

The possibility is that if enough of us engage them, they will be forced even reluctantly to make the changes and not think that the world evolves around European people only to the exclusion of Africans who are still fighting for their liberation in all the African countries, in all diaspora African communities around the world, which of course includes South Africa.

Adesoji Iginla (01:13:44.686)
Okay, and we've come to the end of today's episode. But before you leave, would you like to say a word, Markin? The 230 year anniversary since the end of slavery, you know, started by on the night of the 22nd, the early morning of the 24th of August 1791.

Milton Allimadi (01:13:52.719)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (01:14:14.409)
in a place called Saint Dominic, which we now know as Haiti and Dominican Republic. Over to you,

Milton Allimadi (01:14:23.533)
Well, okay, so well, the only thing I would like to say is that.

African communities globally are in a particular condition today because of our engagement with European imperialism. And I would want people to think of it beyond so -called race, actually so -called race, because early on we already discussed the fact that genetically we are the same, really.

It's only the superficial manifestation and concocted, you know, race and racism, which of course was concocted for the reason to dominate others by people that are now known as Europeans and European capital, right? We're in that position because we have been commodified.

you know, initially during enslavement, you monetize, right? We are commodified during official colonialism. We are commodified as producers of wealth, whether in the terms of agricultural, whether digging resources from the ground.

and then consumers of products manufactured in Europe. This is after the Industrial Revolution. So today the commodification really continues. There's not been any change from the, I call it the Berlin Conference model, where the old type of colonialism, I mean slavery was replaced by colonialism because now...

Milton Allimadi (01:16:26.042)
Capital does not favor people being locked up on plantations. They need to be able to move relatively freely from one factory to the other. They need to be available so that the products can be marketed to them so they can become consumers, right? What has changed since Berlin? Nothing. We continue to produce raw materials and sell it to the West and now to China as well.

They turn it into, you know, fancy gadgets like this that of course we could be producing in Africa, right? And we pay dearly for these products that we import to Africa. So the commodification has not changed. It's just taken a different form. And the managers have taken a different form. During...

Adesoji Iginla (01:16:57.282)
Finish product.

Adesoji Iginla (01:17:03.917)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:17:25.52)
Slavely, the managers were Europeans who would whip you on the back, know, lashes. During colonialism, the managers were European colonial governors and the African underlings. And today in the era of neocolonialism, the managers are Africans, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (01:17:51.126)
You

Milton Allimadi (01:17:53.826)
You have a Tionubu in Nigeria, you have Ruto in Kenya, have General Museveni in Uganda, you have Kagame, you have in South Africa, and you have Ramaphosa. And now, economists is telling us that in South Africa, Ramola is going to be down the line. You see? So that is the condition we need to.

Adesoji Iginla (01:17:57.728)
in Kenya. You were in Musaveni in Uganda?

Kagame in Rwanda?

Adesoji Iginla (01:18:09.486)
Ramaphosa.

Adesoji Iginla (01:18:14.486)
There's a new one coming. La Mola is gonna...

Milton Allimadi (01:18:23.406)
change. And in order for us to change that condition, we need knowledge of where we've come from, where we are, where we might go. And that's where I emphasize once again, history is paramount. Whether you're a doctor, whether you're an accountant, whether you're a lawyer, whether you're an engineer, whether you are a social worker, you are a scientist, researcher, I don't care.

Adesoji Iginla (01:18:44.138)
Mm.

Milton Allimadi (01:18:52.046)
You need to know history if you're a serious person. That's where history comes in. And once you know that history, you will also be able to deconstruct the contemporary demonization as we are doing in our conversations here. We analyze how we are still being demonized in order to keep us in our place today, particularly the economist article in particular.

Adesoji Iginla (01:19:08.458)
Hmm.

Milton Allimadi (01:19:21.184)
And once we get to that space where we can challenge the people who demonize us, then we can start making effective change. We still have the demonizers and the demonized, which is us. In order for the demonized to free themselves, they need to even understand that they're being demonized. Many of us don't even...

realize we're being demonized. So as we commemorate that anniversary of that tragic engagement with the West, I hope we can start to decolonize our minds as Ngoge, the great Kenyan writer put it. So that would be my summation.

Adesoji Iginla (01:20:05.9)
Hmm.

What do you think?

Give a few.

Adesoji Iginla (01:20:15.476)
And on that very happy note, thank you all for joining us. you do appreciate what we do here, please like, share, and subscribe to the channel. And you could also download the audio version on whatever you get your audio podcast the day after this. And yes, do join us. Next one, put on the notification bell.

Although we had some technical hitches in the course of the week, we're looking to find a suitable time that we can do this. And we're looking at weekends and, but we'll keep you updated, but put on your notification bells and be updated, be notified when we go live. And to comrade Milton, thank you very much for coming through again. And to you listeners and viewers.

Milton Allimadi (01:20:54.703)
Yeah.

Milton Allimadi (01:21:02.222)
Yes.

Milton Allimadi (01:21:07.108)
That's how it was found.

Adesoji Iginla (01:21:11.448)
Thank you until next time it is goodbye for now.

Milton Allimadi (01:21:16.878)
I look to continue.

Adesoji Iginla (01:21:18.466)
We just had to.