EP 8 Is There Racism in the United Kingdom I African News Review 🌍

In this episode, The host, Adesoji Iginla spoke to Social Commentator, Azubuike Madujibeya on the burning question - Is There Racism in the United Kingdom, The conversation discussed the recent events in the United Kingdom following the killing of three young children in Southport. It explored the role of the media in stoking racial and ethnic tensions, the history of racism in the UK, and the impact of colonization and imperialism. 

The conversation also highlighted the importance of understanding the contributions of African and Caribbean soldiers in World War II and the need for critical thinking and accurate information in combating racism. Adesoji and Azubuike also delved into the racial categorisation of black and white, highlighting the complexities and inconsistencies in these terms. It explores the historical and ongoing mistreatment of black individuals in the UK, including instances of racism and violence. 

The discussion also touched on the Windrush scandal, where individuals invited to the UK were later targeted and deported. The importance of studying and sharing knowledge to combat ignorance and address pressing issues like climate change was emphasised. 

The conversation concluded with a quote from the late writer Toni Morrison on the function of racism as a distraction.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Setting the Context
01:02 The Killing of Three Young Children and the Outpouring of Rage
02:49 Violence Erupts at the Vigil and Targeting of the Local Mosque
03:46 The Role of the Media in Fueling Fear and Divisions
06:22 The Influence of Politicians in Stoking Racial and Ethnic Tensions
08:26 Is the UK a Racist Country? Examining Historical Context
10:34 The Legacy of Imperialism and Colonization
12:32 The Arrival of Windrush Generation and Indian Nationals
14:42 Race Riots and Violence Against Black People in the UK
17:16 The Need for Migrants and the Irony of Anti-Immigrant Sentiments
18:19 The Role of Media in Shaping Public Opinion
20:21 The Decline of Print Media and the Use of Language to Manipulate
23:25 The Influence of Enoch Powell and the Media's Role in Racism
26:18 The Importance of Facts and Critical Thinking
29:10 The Deliberate Omission of History and the Impact of the Class System
32:05 Racial Categorization in the UK
33:19 Historical Incidents of Racism
35:58 The Windrush Scandal
44:11 The Power of Studying and Sharing Knowledge
48:26 Unveiling the Fallacies of Winston Churchill
54:39 Addressing Real Pressing Issues
01:01:45 Racism as a Distraction

Transcript

Adesoji Iginla (00:01.366)
Yes, good evening again and welcome to Adesoggi Speaks and we are live coming from the United Kingdom. His Majesty's

Azuwuike Madujibeya (00:14.685)
Dungeon.

Adesoji Iginla (00:15.891)
His Majesty's Empire, part of his Majesty's Empire. I don't know why we're serious, why we're being on serious now. We don't want to end up in the tower. So yes, welcome to you, whatever you're hearing us from. Good day, good evening. And I am Adesuji Iginla and with me today I've got Azubuike Majubia.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (00:36.49)
is clearly the warning.

Adesoji Iginla (00:44.482)
And as residents of His Majesty's kingdom, are on the front line of what has transpired in the last couple of weeks. And as a result, we've decided, you know, it's...

It's very good protocol for us to have a chat about what indeed we've been experiencing. And I'll give it over to my guests. Please say your first thoughts.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (01:14.069)
Yes, peace, good evening everybody. For many of you who have been watching from near or far, events across the United Kingdom which were precipitated by the sad killing of three young children who were in attendance at a Taylor Swift.

dance party with adults and other children, ages range between the age of six and nine, one of the children herself, a migrant. And that's important to understand because the outpouring of perceived rage and anger was to be directed at a migrant who

was perceived to have been of Islamic following, a Muslim, which turned out not to be true. The man himself, the young boy, 17 years of age.

were born and raised in the UK. His parents from Rwanda, he was born in Wales. This event that the children were in attendance took place in Southport in the north west of England. Ten other people were injured, some critically, and the three children lost their lives.

So the right wing press, the commentariat, selection of travel makers, let's call them that, decided to state that this person that they were...

Adesoji Iginla (02:55.927)
you

Azuwuike Madujibeya (03:07.945)
Even at the vigil for these young children, people from across the country gathered in Southport, reports from taxi drivers in the local area, ferrying people to and from train stations that wouldn't necessarily be asking for such journeys to particular destinations, so they knew they were not from the local area. At the vigil, after the vigil, violence erupted.

Adesoji Iginla (03:17.432)
you

Azuwuike Madujibeya (03:36.479)
because people had been whipped into a frenzy to believe that the person who had perpetrated this heinous crime was a Muslim. So, and Aya was directed at the local mosque in Southport. And this seemed to galvanize even more people to behave in a similar manner throughout the rest of the UK in many cities.

Adesoji Iginla (03:49.528)
Hmm.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (04:05.219)
London was different because of the makeup of the city itself with the communities of people who are vastly diverse. So that was not a place where this kind of nonsense was going to be tolerated, let me put it politely like that. And highly unlikely. So the...

Adesoji Iginla (04:14.542)
you

Adesoji Iginla (04:25.494)
I look likely.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (04:33.597)
media together with politicians together with labor politicians were stoking up real fear one labor mp citing people's grievance for refuge as justification refugees coming to the uk and getting housing well if people are coming to the uk getting housing why did you direct them to a hotel

Adesoji Iginla (04:37.229)
Mm -hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (04:49.544)
justification for it yep yep which is

Azuwuike Madujibeya (05:01.749)
where said migrants in this particular vicinity were being sheltered, housed. So these thugs decided to burn a hotel to the ground.

Adesoji Iginla (05:05.582)
housed.

Adesoji Iginla (05:11.854)
Speaking of burning hotels to the ground, we have a tape. Let's see.

Adesoji Iginla (05:20.13)
Here we go.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (07:06.561)
What a clown. What a clown.

Adesoji Iginla (07:08.11)
But which of the clowns though?

Azuwuike Madujibeya (07:14.443)
The whole circus. The whole circus. Robinson. Musk. Farage.

Adesoji Iginla (07:16.024)
Hmm.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (07:24.499)
a smattering of MPs who couldn't know how to comport themselves. Even calling for Allah, Allah Wakbar to be. And if people say it, they should be arrested. Hallelujah. God is great. Arrest us. Arrest us. This is the foolishness, the absurdity. The absurdity.

Adesoji Iginla (07:28.554)
Lee Anderson.

Adesoji Iginla (07:34.952)
Mm, to be but, to be but.

Adesoji Iginla (07:42.42)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (07:46.946)
Yeah, the absurdity. Yeah.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (07:53.461)
And this is precisely what senior Tory MPs have said that language from the Tory party is divisive. This is the, I'm reading the Observer from Sunday.

Adesoji Iginla (07:58.904)
Mm

Adesoji Iginla (08:04.993)
Okay.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (08:06.947)
on page four. See, device of language fueled unrest, say party grandees. Some writers held up slogans in in Blasond with the stop the boats, the slogan used by sumac in the election campaign designed to show he was tackling illegal channel crossings.

Robert Jenrick, one of the Tory leadership frontrunners, drew criticism for saying police should immediately arrest any protesters shouting, alo alo wakba. The Arabic phrase that means God is great.

It goes on. I mean, there's just too much to even digest of the nonsense that many of these parties members are saying. Yes, go ahead, sir.

Adesoji Iginla (08:49.378)
So the question would be, would you, in the spirit of what you read and seen and heard, would you describe the country as being racist? And if so, and if so, and if so, you know, you could draw, could you draw comparison between a couple of societies in the West?

Azuwuike Madujibeya (09:06.628)
no, the Tory party.

Adesoji Iginla (09:18.79)
and give us an idea of what sort of racism we're looking at in the UK.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (09:24.227)
Well, I mean to say that the UK is racist is farcical according to the Conservative Party who commissioned a report. I have a report, yes, it's farcical, right? It doesn't exist. So I'm looking at two reports done by the Runnymede Trust.

creating a crisis, immigration, racism and the 2024 general election. And the other document is run in me than the Amnesty International, United Kingdom submission to the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination. This is to the United Nations. This document was submitted, a rather lengthy document, which talks about the policies and steps and measures that need to be in place to prevent disparities

for those people who are marginalized. to ask if this question, this country is racist, it's really like asking is the sky blue in the morning during the daytime? It could well be gray and cloudy, but the reality is that the legacy of this country, I don't know, think I'm going to...

Adesoji Iginla (10:27.096)
Could be. Could be great.

Adesoji Iginla (10:34.84)
But the reality is, yes.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (10:41.827)
that I have some books in my hand that I'll show to people. Which probably would anger people. This is not my problem. The truth shouldn't anger people. Being denied the ability to have the truth told to you is a problem. So myself and yourself are sitting here in the UK, both speaking English as a direct result of imperialism, colonization of Africa. My parents came to this country already speaking English.

Adesoji Iginla (11:05.666)
facts.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (11:10.775)
from West Africa. So that was the system already in place in the country we call Nigeria. Those countries that were under the yoke of the British Empire in the Caribbean and wider fields were considered to be part of the Commonwealth. So people in those countries were considered to have British nationality. And we're welcome to this country by.

Adesoji Iginla (11:16.536)
Mm

Adesoji Iginla (11:36.3)
the empire of the British Empire.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (11:38.543)
part of the British Empire and after the Second World War those in the Caribbean were invited to come and assist in the rebuilding of this country after it was leveled by their cousin in Germany the one that democratically elected out of Hitler. Who democratically elected we must make that point very clear because it's important for people to understand that word has been used weaponized as if it's a good thing.

Adesoji Iginla (11:56.888)
Mm

Adesoji Iginla (12:07.336)
And it's also necessary to add that the reason for the war in itself was not so much as difference in values. It was because they lost the First World War and as a cost of the Versailles Treaty, they had a big chunk of humble power served to them in the sense that they lost their colonies in Africa, namely Togo, Cameroon, Namibia and Tanzania.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (12:21.591)
Yes.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (12:28.427)
Yeah.

Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (12:36.532)
And as a result, they felt aggrieved and, you know, took matters into their own hand or they were whipped into a frenzy by the Nazis. And before you know it, they bombed England. Now bombing England after the war was then won, first they had to rebuild. And to rebuild, they didn't have the manpower. So which meant they had to come back to the colonies.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (12:52.321)
They bombed England.

Adesoji Iginla (13:05.932)
So in inviting the people from the colonies to come back to the United Kingdom to help them build,

Azuwuike Madujibeya (13:12.043)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (13:15.214)
They came thinking they were coming to help the motherland. At least that was the story sold to them back home. They got on a ship, MV Windrush, which happened to be a German ship that was seized but renamed MV Windrush. And they arrived in Toulberie September 9, 1948.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (13:30.948)
Yep. Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (13:44.259)
And since then they've been in the eye of the storm.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (13:48.983)
And we shouldn't forget that over a million nationals from India also turn up as they were part of the Commonwealth as well, they themselves having suffered the indignity of partition in 1948. So they were going through their own trauma at that time.

Adesoji Iginla (13:54.996)
Mmhm. Would also turn up.

Adesoji Iginla (14:08.432)
Twice.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (14:16.843)
This is not to even eclipse or to not to bring to light the already fertile grounds which was laid before the Windrush generation arrived here from the Caribbean.

Adesoji Iginla (14:31.585)
Yep.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (14:34.071)
Professor Lucy Bland wrote a Britain's Brown Babies.

2000 children were born as a result of relationships between African American GIs and English women.

How were the GIs treated? They were treated just the same way they were treated in the United States of America. Abominably, dismaly. I'll just read a small passage. On page 16, says, from the moment the British government knew the US troops would be coming to Britain, there was concern in official circles about the consequences of the presence of black GIs.

The Home Secretary, Herbert Morrison for example, was anxious that the procreation of half -caste children, listen to the language, would create a difficult social problem. He and others in the War Cabinet would have preferred no black GIs to be sent at all. These guys are going to war with Adolf Hitler. And he said that they don't want help. So what did they do?

The Foreign Secretary Anthony Eden argued that the British climate was badly suited to Negroes and suggested that they would be better off in Italy. the ground has already been set. Even before this book, we know of instances of what Dr. David Onosuga would call as race riots. In the summer of 1919,

Azuwuike Madujibeya (16:08.503)
To our surprise, I wanna say our surprise, when we hear of 1919, we immediately think of the red summer of 1919 in the United States of America.

Adesoji Iginla (16:15.32)
Mm -hmm.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (16:21.675)
Professor Hakim Adi's book.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (16:26.327)
He talked about race riots of 1919 and when I read it I thought he was referring to the United States of America. No, he was referring to the United Kingdom. Glasgow, South Shields, Hull and Salford, London, Liverpool. All these cities in 1919, Newport, Bury and Cardiff had race riots. Black people fighting for their very existence in this country.

at the same time as black people in the United States of America also fighting because a young black boy was killed while swimming in a lake and he crossed over into the quote unquote white only segregated part of a river where of course there's no signage on a river that anybody would be able to discern. So this young boy was hit on the head with a rock. He drowned. The onlookers saw him drown and pointed out who threw the rock.

Those people, black people who protested, were themselves arrested for protesting. So the similarities and the experiences of black people, irrespective of where we live, has been marred by violence and brutality against us. And if we go further back, we will see the root cause of all of these things. It's not 10 years old, it's not 20 years or 30 or 100.

It's 800, if not a millennia, of abuse against Africa and its people. So what we're seeing here in the United Kingdom over the last couple of weeks.

is a falsehood of grievance born of the fact that people think that there are too many brown skinned, melanated people arriving on their shores taking their jobs. You've been to university and got your jobs. I've been to university and got my job. I didn't take anybody's job. I got my own job. You got your own job. There are videos of African people descended showing that they have their own jobs, their own qualifications.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (18:35.401)
not taking them from anybody else and the irony, the bitter irony is this country needs migrants more than they actually want to admit. Most of the western world has a declining birth population and an increase, an increasing and aging population.

One of the people affected by the riots last week, a young man, a nurse, a care home assistant, came out to see the sight of his car turned upside down and burnt. Whilst he was probably caring for some of these people's elderly, saved all of his hard -earned money to buy a car now he can't even move around.

Adesoji Iginla (18:59.169)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (19:16.909)
Mm.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (19:20.043)
doesn't get picked up by the politicians because that's not in their purview to talk about such things. The injustice of this whipping up hysteria for people to feel aggrieved and to let themselves vent that on the streets of cities in the UK.

Adesoji Iginla (19:20.141)
So.

Adesoji Iginla (19:36.878)
Speaking of whipping up hysteria, there was one hysteria that was started in the summer of 1968, the Enoch Powell's rivers of blood speech. And he said, if Britain was not careful with the flow of immigration, there is bound to be foaming of blood in the streets of Britain.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (19:50.198)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (20:05.356)
He subsequently died in the 90s, but the people who became somewhat of his disciples are now in the mainstream of politics in the United Kingdom.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (20:05.569)
He said.

Adesoji Iginla (20:21.132)
But before we go to the politicians, I want to harp on the problem of the media.

Adesoji Iginla (20:30.592)
The media in the United Kingdom is a very powerful medium. One born out of the need to be informed because of the war. It has created a siege mentality on the people to the point where anything they see in the media they believe. The idea of critical thinking, of sieving out what is and what is not tenable.

has been lost on majority of the population. And again, that is deliberate. I believe the quote during the war was, loose tongues cost lives.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (21:08.055)
very much so.

Adesoji Iginla (21:18.104)
But funny enough, you see that in the last couple of weeks, last couple of days to be the case, it was loose tongues. It was people saying things that they ought not to say. So clearly, it's either they've forgotten or they're playing the devil's advocate.

Which brings me to this.

Adesoji Iginla (21:44.374)
The media is, the print media is held by three major groups in this country.

Medoc, the one who owns the telegraph, the Russian who owns the telegraph, and funny enough, a free paper, the Metro.

If you look in front of these publications over the course of a number of years, you will see the amount of bile that has been thrown out there for people to gobble up under the guise of information. Now, so why do I bring that up?

Adesoji Iginla (22:35.432)
What is the role that you think the media played in this particular scenario?

Azuwuike Madujibeya (22:42.261)
Yeah.

The problem for print media is the industry is dead, to be blunt. A few newspapers hold sway in the number of publications that they print and have purchased it weekly or monthly or however they collect their statistics. But it's not like it used to be before the dawn and the advent of the internet, which has decimated their business model.

Adesoji Iginla (22:49.645)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (23:11.01)
business model.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (23:12.939)
So they have to find ways of earning revenue and that is done by appealing to and stoking the worst auspices of that psyche of people who don't have the ability to withstand the assault because this is abuse. As Dr. John Henry Clark reminds us, if you have an educated people, they won't ask you for power. They will simply take it.

So you miseducate and under -educate populations of people for decades. And then you decimate the industries in which these people used to work and providing nothing to replace those heavy industries, whether it's the textiles, whether it's the mining. And then you subsequently allow the closure of social outlets.

which would have been refuse for so many people. So the children now have nowhere to go. So they become disillusioned. These are government policies of the Tories.

Did the labor do anything better? Wow. It was very difficult to not be pandering to the status quo and the media knows this is the game. So they continue to ferment these headlines and if you saw article it pointed out, you can just see the collage of all of these newspapers as you've sent me this morning. It's just vitriol. Literally vitriol from all of these tabloid newspapers.

The that the broadsheets do it is to try to be more sophisticated when they're speaking to a different demographic of them.

Adesoji Iginla (24:59.722)
language.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (25:04.891)
This is a Pinot Grigio version of racism, whereas the guys who drink the tabloid newspaper is a Ribena racism. But it's still racism. So the tabloids have got a lot to answer for in this regard because although they are regulated, the regulation doesn't say that they can't stoke racial and ethnic tensions.

Adesoji Iginla (25:07.83)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (25:15.212)
Rabino, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know?

Adesoji Iginla (25:35.446)
and then the Freedom of Information Act?

Azuwuike Madujibeya (25:35.891)
It's dead. Exactly. So the defamation of people is one of the things that they are not allowed to do. Wantonly abusing people. They're not allowed to do. But they navigate this thing using clever words in English, which is the part of what it does very, very well.

Adesoji Iginla (25:43.565)
Okay.

Adesoji Iginla (25:56.817)
my God, in the land of Shakespeare.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (25:58.877)
a delad of Shakespeare, you can say something very very nasty with a smile on your face and a blade in your hand.

Adesoji Iginla (26:03.842)
very with with

Adesoji Iginla (26:10.094)
Polite Venir. Yes, yes. And speaking of indictments, there is a video I wanted to play with regards to Indictin. What's his name? Just watch this.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (26:13.377)
So the media? Yeah.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (26:18.943)
I'll go ahead, yeah, let's see.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (26:24.336)
with which one of them.

Adesoji Iginla (26:27.372)
Here we go.

Adesoji Iginla (29:08.098)
There you go.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (29:09.052)
Bring in the facts and this is the challenge for those of us who are paying attention to be able to articulate exactly in the manner that Akala did when you're faced with people who are only in receipt or possession of some

Adesoji Iginla (29:17.101)
Hmm.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (29:30.133)
pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. So we could use this metaphor of everybody's building a picture of the truth, but the truth depends on your perspective. It depends on your grounding. Where do you come from? If your pieces of the jigsaw puzzle are upside down, they won't fit very well, but people are led to believe that their pieces of the jigsaw puzzle are accurate. And so Mr. Robinson there, Stephen Yaxley -Lennon,

actually has no point to make. He turned to the Muslim gentleman to say, what are you doing about the racism and the Islamist extremism? And he said, we confront it. He said, it's not good enough, mate. It's not. Well, what would you have one individual do? It's not an individual problem that can be tackled by one person. It has to be tackled by society and the society of the United Kingdom doesn't want those things to be tackled because they can weaponize it.

And when you weaponize it, you can make money. Which is where the media make their bread and butter.

Adesoji Iginla (30:33.134)
Speaking of the media, I love the fact that he referenced the soldiers, which is a point that is often overlooked in this country. When it comes to the question of the history of defeating the Nazis, the role of the Caribbean and African soldiers is underplayed, deliberately. Which brings me to

Azuwuike Madujibeya (30:39.051)
Yes.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (30:44.541)
Overlooked. Yeah.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (30:58.177)
Deliberately.

Adesoji Iginla (31:03.006)
David Olushoga's book Black British where he chronicles

Azuwuike Madujibeya (31:09.035)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (31:13.824)
what they did on the battlefield, what they did in the UK, the kind of racism they experienced in the UK with Nazis not being allowed to touch them or to use, not being allowed to touch them, but to tell a soldier from their side on what to do with regards to how to nurse them to health. And when it came to the march pass,

Azuwuike Madujibeya (31:26.707)
Imagine. Imagine.

Adesoji Iginla (31:43.564)
the Cenotaph, they were put on the boat home and the only soldiers there were captured on camera as being part of the frontier force where white soldiers from South Africa, white soldiers from New Zealand and that was it.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (31:45.301)
In what hole?

Azuwuike Madujibeya (31:49.111)
Yeah, not to participate.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (32:04.535)
Cool.

Adesoji Iginla (32:06.336)
And so, if you're looking into your history books and you know everything is documented here, you know, literally anything you want, even to the days of slavery, there is a paper record for it. So if it's not written down, if it's not documented, it never happened.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (32:30.888)
Of course. by omission. By omission. Which is what they do. play very, well at hiding. Anarchomax always tells us to be weary of the okie doke. Being bamboozled. Being led astray. Run amok.

Adesoji Iginla (32:31.522)
So that's racism by omission.

Adesoji Iginla (32:41.74)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (32:50.451)
Run amok.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (32:53.751)
as he famously gave one of his last speeches here in the United Kingdom on 11th of February 1965 at the London School of Economics. I've mentioned this to many times before, my father was there as a student studying his PhD. They're listening to Malcolm speak and in that speech Malcolm talks about the media, the press. says the press will make you believe that those who are oppressing other people are themselves being oppressed.

Adesoji Iginla (33:14.284)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (33:23.03)
Oppressed,

Azuwuike Madujibeya (33:24.329)
And those are oppressed, are the ones who are doing the oppressing. Which is what we see in Gaza. It's fundamentally backwards with the use of language. But deliberately so. And most people, if you're savvy enough to see this, then you're easy prey to the programming these headlines that you mentioned.

Adesoji Iginla (33:27.106)
Do you know Preston?

Adesoji Iginla (33:52.675)
Mm

Azuwuike Madujibeya (33:52.843)
which is what it does, it programs people to think in a particular way, giving people piecemeal information and then leads them to jump to conclusions, those jigsaw pieces that we were discussing, they haven't got all of the pieces. So they fall into the trap of thinking that they're having a valid grievance, there is no grievance that they have.

Adesoji Iginla (34:14.518)
I mean, it...

Azuwuike Madujibeya (34:16.035)
Not against people who look like me or you or from anybody from Asia or from outside of the European Community, they don't have a grievance with African people or Asian people Their grievances with their own country and they don't know how to articulate that that's their issue

Adesoji Iginla (34:18.818)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (34:33.464)
But also one has to also take into consideration the fact that we have a class system that is heavily enshrined within this country. That means what you alluded to there, not knowing how to articulate their concerns, is because they can't quite look this so -called classist in the face.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (34:43.553)
Exactly.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (34:47.433)
Exactly.

Adesoji Iginla (35:03.106)
but they can look at you because in their minds they're better than you.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (35:09.399)
and that's all they've been sold. Therefore they don't need to do any self -reflection. And this is what the people who are in the upper echelons in the political class, the media class, they have told them, don't worry, you can be poor, but at least you're not like them. And this is the problem for many of those people who can't see past that.

Adesoji Iginla (35:11.491)
Hmm.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (35:37.407)
racial categorization of black and white. It becomes very, very murky ground to navigate. Social constructs, these terminologies, interwoven with other ethnic usages of the word black for people in America, because that's their ethnic categorization. Negroes, colored, black Americans, African Americans.

Adesoji Iginla (35:47.689)
Mm. Mm.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (36:04.213)
We know one person who's got members of his family that have all designations in his own family. His father was called colored. His great grandparents are called Negroes. He himself is a black American. His children are African American or the other way around. All the different demographic identifiers. So there's no consistency. And it's always because other people want to put you in a box so they can say, you're in that group of people. We're not all a hegemonic group.

Adesoji Iginla (36:28.237)
Mm.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (36:33.985)
We're not. So these issues are longstanding and it requires courage to tackle them. What we're doing here today is trying to uncover just a small portion of that issue with the small text that we have unspoken.

Adesoji Iginla (36:51.682)
There is actually, there is, I would also like to, since we're talking about racism in the UK, one cannot but mention the victims of some of their barbarity. And,

Adesoji Iginla (37:15.758)
I'll just mention a couple of names. 1959, Kelso Cochrane. Kelso Cochrane was a Trinidadian capita who was coming home from work in Naughty Hill, was set upon by racist jobs and killed. His killing will set in motion the Naughty Hill carnival.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (37:27.969)
Yeah, nothing here.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (37:39.095)
Yeah.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (37:45.473)
Claudia Jones.

Adesoji Iginla (37:45.782)
which was Claudia Jones who from the United States, herself exiled from the United States. One must not forget Stephen Lawrence, sorry.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (37:58.264)
Don't gloss over Claudia Jones. She was jailed. The crime she committed, having left Trinidad and Tobago herself as an eight -year -old because of hardship there, economic migrant to Harlem in New York, educationally brilliant, no surprise. She was a member of the Communist Party USA. What was her crime?

Adesoji Iginla (38:07.842)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (38:23.595)
helping black Americans register to vote.

Adesoji Iginla (38:28.234)
Okay, then we cannot but mention Stephen Lawrence, who was going home, waiting at the bus stop with his friend, Dane Brooks. And again, split up, he was set upon killed, stabbed.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (38:35.639)
Stephen Lawrence, yes.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (38:42.283)
with his friend Dwayne Brooks.

Adesoji Iginla (38:53.794)
The worst part was his family was then investigated by the police to see if they can dig up dirt in order to tarnish his image because they quite believe that a kid like that would not be involved in anything. So they needed an excuse not to do something.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (39:02.89)
tarnish his name.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (39:14.879)
Yeah, they did. And that caused the breakup of the marriage between Doreen Lawrence and her husband, Neville Lawrence. Doreen Lawrence became an ardent anti -racism campaigner. And the way that these structural social systems work is they become very flexible. They absorbed Mrs. Lawrence into the social fabric by giving her a peerage in the House of Lords.

Adesoji Iginla (39:21.223)
Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (39:42.072)
but making sure she can talk from the inside, but she can't talk from the outside.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (39:44.309)
Yeah, so they can keep their eye on them.

Exactly, exactly. her husband, ex -husband, found himself back in his home country, in the Caribbean. A news report recently my friend sent me said that Mrs Lawrence, I mean it's not relevant to this conversation, but they still have grievance, they're very bitter about what this country has done to their family.

Adesoji Iginla (39:57.228)
and

Adesoji Iginla (40:12.566)
Of course, of course, of course, of course. mean, something that would resonate with the Americans. His gravesite was attacked repeatedly, just like Emeteo's. So his body had to be exhumed, taken over to the Caribbean for it to rest there. It shows the level of barbarity of people you're dealing with. And then there is... No, he is going to be brought back.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (40:21.835)
Yes, just like that until, yeah.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (40:35.499)
his body has subsequently been brought back to the right.

Adesoji Iginla (40:40.814)
It's not brought back yet. It's going to be brought back. Then there is, who can forget that, 30th of July, 2015, Anthony Walker in Liverpool, the kid who was hacked. I don't even want to go into, you know, there he is. But one that often goes...

that misses the mark and I don't know why it is maybe because of where it happened was David Olawale in Leeds, 1969. He was hounded to death by police officers and that would, some would say the first time the police, two police officers will be sent to jail for causing the death of quote unquote a black man. You know, so

Azuwuike Madujibeya (41:20.225)
Hmm.

Adesoji Iginla (41:35.374)
And then the 13 kids, 1985, New Cross, 1983, then subsequent one took his life because having played with 13 kids, all your friends are gone and you're the only one. know, trauma, the trauma was just too much. kid. And he eventually took his life and they became 14, you know.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (41:40.255)
in New Cross.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (41:53.975)
swimmer.

Adesoji Iginla (42:03.764)
Why? Because the system let them down. They were in their home, having a party, somebody lit up a cocktail, threw it into the house, no escape, you know.

Adesoji Iginla (42:21.868)
Windrush, I said Windrush, before Windrush, Grenfell Towers.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (42:26.327)
Grenfell Tower. This one is so egregious for people who remember the sight of the World Trade Center towers after the two planes crashed into them. You saw people jumping.

Grenfell Tower sits in the richest borough in Europe. is the richest borough in Europe, Kensington and Chelsea. The makeup of London in terms of housing, there is no segregation amongst rich people living in that quarter.

Adesoji Iginla (42:52.856)
borough of London.

Adesoji Iginla (42:57.632)
Yeah, in Europe, Europe.

Adesoji Iginla (43:13.878)
Mm -hmm.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (43:14.121)
and then less affluent people in. Everything is conjoined because this is how the aristocrats used to be serviced by poor people who would live nearby so they could be serviced. This is why you have all these social housings in the middle of wealthy areas. Grenfell Tower, a tower block, much like the projects in the United States of America, was a bit of an eyesore. So the council saw it fit to cover the building with what looked like

Adesoji Iginla (43:41.16)
No, they were prodded by the rich folk. The council was prodded by the rich folk to make it much more sightly. Exactly.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (43:45.854)
Hahaha

Azuwuike Madujibeya (43:51.735)
much more slightly. So what did they do? They bought cladding to cover the building. This cladding was bought from the United States of America where it was it been banned from being used on buildings more than five or six or seven stories. This building was 18 or 21 stories.

Adesoji Iginla (44:01.867)
where it had been banned.

Adesoji Iginla (44:10.391)
stories.

Adesoji Iginla (44:17.241)
18 if you're counting the loft.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (44:20.698)
So of course the firefighters could not get to the top floor with their ladders because they just don't go that high and people were throwing their children out of the windows to people below and so 76 people perished is that correct is it official official thank you official number official number

Adesoji Iginla (44:36.673)
Official number.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (44:44.107)
because I was working in that area of South West London at the time in another building and from the 23rd floor of the building that I was working in the following morning I could see the building still smoldering a terrible sight I could only imagine what it was like on the night when that building was burning

Adesoji Iginla (45:06.03)
The fact that we had to watch it live on TV. The public lynching of 76 people on TV. shares in the memories. And then, the Windrush scandal.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (45:09.044)
Yes, we had to.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (45:13.803)
people.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (45:25.995)
We don't even know how to even broach this topic because again, it's still ongoing, the compensation scheme. This is the worst part of it, yes. That people were invited to come to the United Kingdom to assist in the rebuilding of this country. As they landed in the docks or at the airports, had to present their landing tickets, their landing cards.

Adesoji Iginla (45:30.25)
it's still ongoing that's that's the worst part

Adesoji Iginla (45:51.362)
landing car.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (45:54.497)
to immigration officers, who then sent them to the Home Office.

Their children, many of them 3, 4, 5 years of age, travel on them listed on the landing cards.

Adesoji Iginla (46:07.158)
were listed on the landing cards.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (46:13.035)
Fast forward to Theresa May as Home Secretary under David Cameron. Hostile environment. We need to get rid of these migrants. But of course she didn't mean those migrants.

Adesoji Iginla (46:19.98)
hairstyle environments.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (46:28.769)
So what did they do to Home Office? Allegedly they said they ran out of storage space.

So they destroyed all of those landing cards of those Windrush generation of people.

and then promptly invited those people and their descendants to prove when they arrived in the UK knowing full well that they didn't have the proof.

and then started to deport many of them who had worked here. One of them worked in the Home Office in Parliament as a dinner lady serving them food. Prove when you came here.

Adesoji Iginla (47:10.03)
I've been here 50, 60 years.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (47:12.087)
You've been here 50 or 60 years paying tax. And then they have the temerity to tell everybody that there's no structural racism in this country. Why did they not return these tickets, landing cards to the people and their descendants if they had run out of space? Digitization could have saved those things in the cloud. They chose the worst, the most egregious option, destroy them.

and then insult the people by asking them to prove that they themselves have destroyed the proof.

I don't know what kind of structural racism you could classify this as, but it's just so egregious. Really is egregious. And many of the people, some of them have passed away trying to get a compensation, some of them have never known any other country.

Adesoji Iginla (48:06.51)
That is, you know, so it's, it's surface. That's the thing. That's the thing. That's the thing. I've not even gone into the educational sector.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (48:10.433)
So we're just scratching the surface. We're just scratching the surface.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (48:19.857)
my god, education is subnormal. E -S -N. That's for another discussion another time.

Adesoji Iginla (48:26.952)
Exactly. We've not done, we've not even done the medical side. We've not done, okay, we'll do the sports side. I mean, that's, that's pretty straightforward. I mean, it's, where do you look? Where do you look? There is another part that is often glossed over. The issue of slavery.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (48:31.593)
my goodness.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (48:36.262)
my god.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (48:46.87)
Well.

Adesoji Iginla (48:55.874)
the transatlantic slavery. Let me play you this.

Adesoji Iginla (49:03.93)
Sorry.

Here we go.

Adesoji Iginla (49:57.518)
I don't mean to trigger, I don't mean to trigger.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (50:03.031)
was time time. is the point that we are linking joining some dots. Why would the media always turn to certain figures? Then it was

Adesoji Iginla (50:08.131)
Mm.

Adesoji Iginla (50:14.072)
To reaffirm the status quo.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (50:17.025)
reaffirmed the status quo and to reinforce the ignorance. David Starkey, doctor as he's dubbed, a historian, of the ilk of those who would write the history of African people as inconsequential. We have no history. We don't know how to do anything. We didn't build anything. We've made no contribution to civilization.

are Socrates where he went to study and for how long?

Where did the Romans go? For so long.

Adesoji Iginla (50:53.63)
No, he will tell you that you have no civilization.

And so if that is the person they would have gone to in Oxford, thankfully he's now he's being excused. But you know, the cobwebs are still in there. This is just the one that has seen the light of day, you know.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (51:13.141)
Exactly.

Adesoji Iginla (51:17.964)
But these are the people that reaffirm that level of ignorance and

your your his lord eddie's fated you know i mean i remember when i first of all said to who is this champion tv what my older my my brother would say listen it's their country just let them be like what this guy is chatting nonsense but eventually the the tape i just played now was the one that finally got him off the screen and this happened

Azuwuike Madujibeya (51:36.415)
Why is he always there?

Azuwuike Madujibeya (51:44.905)
He's talking nonsense.

Adesoji Iginla (51:56.706)
during the Black Lives Matter protests. You remember that period when we all sat at home, everybody was on Zoom, and before you know it, somebody put a camera in his face. Boom, he just let the cat out of the bag. These damn blacks. They're still very, yeah. Yeah.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (52:14.103)
Always protesting, right? Always protesting. Why did we protest? I think we were in lockdown, right? We were told, don't go outside. I'm sorry. Did we not just see someone get their next snout on for 10 minutes until his body expired? Mr. George Perry Floyd in Minnesota. Did his family not flee from the West?

Adesoji Iginla (52:22.924)
Mm

Adesoji Iginla (52:34.744)
Mm -hmm.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (52:43.795)
into Minnesota to avoid the very thing that he subsequently died from. Abuse.

Adesoji Iginla (52:48.696)
Hmm. Hmm.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (52:52.791)
George Perry Floyd, my friend.

Adesoji Iginla (52:54.358)
And that is the problem we have when it comes to the UK. This notion that everything is the way it is and it's always been the way it is. And who are you to change it? Why are you changing it? You know, which brings me back to the issue of symbols. Weston Churchill's. There are books, you know,

Azuwuike Madujibeya (53:12.023)
We need to change it.

Adesoji Iginla (53:24.246)
fallacies and all sorts of, what's the word, fairy tales that has been written about this guy.

And everybody outside of these shows know who this Chappy is.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (53:41.921)
you

Adesoji Iginla (53:44.524)
The irony for those who are pushing a certain narrative about him is he was callous enough to even write about himself how, you know, egregious he is. I mean, I'll give you one of his quotes, which was when he was informed of the Bengali famine. And he said, it's, I have no nothing to say to them. It's their fault for breeding like rats.

They're such beastly people. No, beastly rats. They didn't say rabbits. They said rats, vermin. Yeah. He said, you're being nice. He said vermin. He said rats. He said it is their fault for breathing like rats. After all, they're beastly people. It can care less. And this is when the stock they were taking from the Bengali.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (54:15.071)
Rabbits. I think he said rabbits.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (54:27.079)
I'm being too nice. I'm being too nice.

Adesoji Iginla (54:44.438)
was not necessary. You could have left it there and they would have fed themselves but you extracted that stuff from them. You know so

And one of the things about the United Kingdom that would at some point, which I doubt, but obviously one has to point out the hypocrisy of the entire thing. Here's a country.

that prides itself on its Englishness, everything, you know, we're British, if you do not belong, if you do not toe the line, you cannot be part of us. Professor K. Indian -Drews in his book, Psychosis of Whiteness, said, there are two people we have to be afraid of, not just the racist, but those that look like us, because they're constantly championing

Azuwuike Madujibeya (55:27.968)
of whiteness.

Adesoji Iginla (55:39.958)
I mean, I can mention a few names, but let's just let's just leave them be. Exactly. Let's just leave them be and not, you I mean, one was the guy who chaired that silly committee, committee who said there was no racism in the United Kingdom. And then there is this. Sorry, I have to trigger you again.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (55:44.137)
Leave them out of the conversation.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (55:53.75)
Indeed.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (56:09.592)
It's okay, I've seen them all.

Adesoji Iginla (57:50.019)
you

Adesoji Iginla (59:03.252)
you

Azuwuike Madujibeya (59:43.199)
Yes.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:06.825)
You

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:24.619)
You

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:37.23)
There you go.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (01:00:38.517)
your farage. Gas lighter in chief.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:42.634)
exactly. And then we're supposed to, we're supposed to, you know, count out to this nonsense.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (01:00:51.376)
the irony of using a flag which is of origin from Genoa.

Adesoji Iginla (01:00:58.946)
haha

Azuwuike Madujibeya (01:01:00.395)
the white flag with the red cross because a powerful family would afford shipping companies protection by waving that flag. So the English flag is not even English and the saint is not English. The irony of them saying that foreigners shouldn't be here.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:10.124)
Yep. Yep. Yep.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:18.484)
It's funny where it's not sad that those people lost their livelihood, lost their lives simply because they bought into the fact that they're in part and parcel of something. And you know.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (01:01:27.919)
Completely sad.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (01:01:32.862)
and their lives.

Adesoji Iginla (01:01:46.08)
that thing has now cost them, you know, what can I say? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So what brings us to the question of what do we do?

Azuwuike Madujibeya (01:01:53.387)
The human dignity. Well, the human dignity.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (01:02:04.507)
For people like yourself and myself who have got capacity, I don't know, even here on your platform this evening, as we're discussing, just talking, maybe a few people joined us in the audience, we greet them, thank them for joining with us. We need to do, our ancestors have been telling us, to study. And in doing that study, we see these patterns of mistreatment.

And when we see these patterns then we have to inform other people. Study without the action is of no benefit. All the books that I have, I I didn't show this one. This is another youthful memoir from another Nigerian author. This ship, the Jesus of Lubeck, bought as a gift, as many parents would do, buy a car for their 18 year old child.

Adesoji Iginla (01:02:51.68)
delay,

Azuwuike Madujibeya (01:02:59.221)
This was bought by King Henry VIII for his daughter Queen Elizabeth. People need to know this history even if it pains them because they don't know and in not knowing you will always be ignorant. And then you will use your ignorance as if you know everything. And this is dangerous in a society where you can't use opinion as Dr. Carr teaches us to outweigh knowledge by fact.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:12.269)
Mm.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (01:03:28.039)
or knowledge by faith and you have knowledge by opinion. Everybody's opinion isn't equal if it isn't equal. Those who have studied scholarly study, deep study, gone into whichever institution of academic learning to be able to

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:36.526)
Sure.

Adesoji Iginla (01:03:42.904)
Mm

Azuwuike Madujibeya (01:03:50.623)
really deep deep dive into these topics and bring that knowledge to the masses their opinion carries a bit more weight than the ordinary person. So we we need to avail ourselves of their knowledge and their wisdom as we do sitting in their company. One of my favorite historians as you know is Dr Gerald Horne who's writing copious amount of books faster than I can read them.

and doing what you're doing here is to discuss these issues on a global level so that people understand where we sit and where we stand. If we can't completely articulate the illness, applying a plaster onto the wound isn't going to solve the issue. So we must understand what is the issue. And there are many. And this denial, as Professor Kenan Day -Andrews talks about in his book, The Psychosis of Mindness.

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:16.981)
You

Adesoji Iginla (01:04:45.422)
this.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (01:04:46.423)
For many people in the United Kingdom who don't know the history of this country, it's easy to deny. Why should I pay for slaves? I never owned any slaves. Delay has a chronology of events from 1452 to 1833. 1452 was the papal bull by King Nicholas V, issued to King Alfonso II of Portugal.

and it ends with 1833 the abolition of slavery by the British government in which they use 40 % of their GDP to compensate slaveholders from the Caribbean and taxpayers including yourself and myself paid up until 2015.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:25.398)
Yeah.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:30.977)
Until...

Azuwuike Madujibeya (01:05:36.703)
So if you paid any tax in this country, you still paid for people who held slaves, enslaved African people. So people need to know this history. So how do we tackle this monumental ignorance? It's possible for an individual to do that, but we do each one teach one. And then we continue to build from the ground up and then share the knowledge.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:39.758)
of the 2015 you were still paid.

Adesoji Iginla (01:05:45.239)
Yep.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (01:06:03.627)
and encourage people to share their knowledge and their wisdom and to hold somebody else's hand and share that knowledge and we keep building until everybody knows what they need to know. And then from that we can then start to ask and address real other pressing issues that are facing everybody, namely the climate, the environment, the pollution. These are real issues that, you know, the racism detracts us.

Wastes our time when we have real pressing issues that are not going to wait for us to solve these issues of well, you're black and you're white. Mother Earth doesn't care about that. Climate change doesn't care about that. So.

Adesoji Iginla (01:06:49.052)
Speaking of racism, I would like to end on this note. I'll take a quote from Toni Monarisin. She wrote, the function and the very serious function of racism is distraction. It keeps you from doing your work. It keeps you explaining over and over and over again your reasons for being.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (01:07:02.401)
distraction.

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:14.818)
That's it.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (01:07:16.81)
Exactly.

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:18.066)
And on that reflective note, I would like to thank our Eagle of God as a big Magibwe. Thank you for coming through.

Azuwuike Madujibeya (01:07:30.077)
It was a pleasure my brother, it was a pleasure.

Adesoji Iginla (01:07:31.75)
And no, the pleasure is all mine. And to our audience, it's a great thank you for joining us and do like, share, subscribe, share the good news and point people in this direction. You can download the audio version of this podcast and that will be in the morning. You guys can have it.

you can then share and also tell people to go there and download it so that at least even if they can't see it and watch an hour of videos they can listen in their own spare time while they're driving, commuting, cycling, running and doing all the good stuff. But until next week, it is me, the Sojii Genla and

Azuwuike Madujibeya (01:08:24.895)
Myself, Azu, Kibadijibaiya. Peace.

Adesoji Iginla (01:08:28.022)
Be good to yourselves and good night.